Problem with Kerning and fonts using OT kerning feature only

[Hirwen HARENDAL]

Binary package hint: libreoffice

Kerning doesn't work, even if activated from the character panel. (capture-1 file). The font used is Minion-Pro, kerning pairs "AV"," VA" or "Ty" are inserted in the kerning feature included in the GPOS table only. It's possible to compare this by using scribus where kerning works (capture-2). The same trouble appeared for ADF's fonts in LibreOffice and Ooo. The solution found was to add a standard kerning table in addition of the kerning feature of the GPOS table.

LibreOffice 3.3.2
OOO330m19 (Build:202)
tag libreoffice-3.3.2.2, Ubuntu package 1:3.3.2-1ubuntu2~lucid1

[Hirwen HARENDAL (harendalh)]

capture files

[penalvch (penalvch)]

Hirwen HARENDAL, thank you for reporting this bug and helping make Ubuntu better.

Does this issue occur with a font that comes native with LibreOffice? If not, please attach to this bug a free font .ttf file that demonstrates this problem, or if a font that demonstrates this problem is available via the Ubuntu repositories please reference the package so that we may address this issue promptly.

[Hirwen HARENDAL (harendalh)]

> Does this issue occur with a font that comes native with LibreOffice?

** Maybe Gentium, I'm not sure, since this one uses anchor technology and
no kerning information is available.

> if not, please attach to this bug a free font .ttf file that demonstrates
> this problem, or if a font that demonstrates this problem is available
> via the Ubuntu repositories please reference the package so that we may
> address this issue promptly.

** I attached a new font, generated with OT kerning feature only.
- In the kern.png file, the kern-pair Ty and Tz
- In the sample.png file the result in Libreoffice.

[penalvch (penalvch)]

Hirwen HARENDAL, I was successful in creating the desired kerning effect in Ubuntu 10.10, LibreOffice via the Terminal:

cd ~/Desktop && wget https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/773207/+attachment/2096756/+files/test.zip && file-roller -h test.zip && cd test && sudo mkdir /usr/share/fonts/HourosADF-Medium && sudo cp HourosADF-Medium.otf /usr/share/fonts/HourosADF-Medium && sudo fc-cache -f -v && wget https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/773207/+attachment/2098280/+files/example.odt && lowriter -nologo example.odt

notice the kerning is as the attached Screenshot.png. I was able to produce this kerning by highlighting the text -> secondary click the highlighted text -> primary click Character... -> Position tab -> under Spacing click the drop-down box and choose Condensed -> in the combo box to the right of Condensed choose 5.0pt -> click OK

Does this work for you?

lsb_release -rd
Description: Ubuntu 10.10
Release: 10.10

apt-cache policy libreoffice-writer
libreoffice-writer:
  Installed: 1:3.3.2-1ubuntu2~maverick1
  Candidate: 1:3.3.2-1ubuntu2~maverick1
  Version table:
 *** 1:3.3.2-1ubuntu2~maverick1 0
        500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/libreoffice/ppa/ubuntu/ maverick/main i386 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

[Hirwen HARENDAL (harendalh)]

hi christopher

> notice the kerning is as the attached Screenshot.png. I was able to
> produce this kerning by highlighting the text -> secondary click the
> highlighted text -> primary click Character... -> Position tab -> under
> Spacing click the drop-down box and choose Condensed -> in the combo box
> to the right of Condensed choose 5.0pt -> click OK

** I not spoke about spacing ajustement or effects between glyphs, you can do,
but basic kerning inserted in font. Use false condensed (or expanted) staying a
text style effect, having nothing to do with kerning. I will not write
a text like
in your screenshot using nimbus :-)
You haven't to do this with nimbus, because nimbus use a standard
kerning table.
Opentype technology now used (for OTF and TTF) stores all features in GSUB and
GPOS table. For the same reasons, it's not possible at this time to
accede to features
like ligatures, alternate, sub etc. excepted by using insert character
fonctions.
The problem is that Libreoffice like Ooo seems not read the GPOS table
kerning information
when standard kerning table doesn't exist specially with fonts
respecting opentype
specifications, I think.

Best to you

[penalvch (penalvch)]

Hirwen HARENDAL, I was successful in creating the desired kerning effect in Ubuntu 10.10, Microsoft Word 2003 via WINE by highlighting the text with font Houros ADF -> secondary click the highlighted text -> primary click Font... -> Character Spacing tab -> to the right of Spacing: click the drop-down box and choose Condensed -> to the right of Condensed click the combo-box and choose 5.0pt -> click OK button.

Please see attached msword2003-screenshot.png.

Problems with kerning in either Word 2003 or the way LibreOffice holds compatibility with Word 2003 are unreproducible.

Does a font kerning feature exist in Word but not in LibreOffice, or is the way Word controls font kerning different than LibreOffice?

If so, please provided click-by-click instructions and a Writer document that demonstrates the kerning problem.

lsb_release -rd
Description: Ubuntu 10.10
Release: 10.10

Word 2003 (11.5604.5606)

apt-cache policy wine1.3
wine1.3:
  Installed: 1.3.18-0ubuntu1
  Candidate: 1.3.18-0ubuntu1
  Version table:
 *** 1.3.18-0ubuntu1 0
        500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-wine/ppa/ubuntu/ maverick/main i386 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

[Hirwen HARENDAL (harendalh)]

Hi christopher

2011/4/30 Christopher M. Penalver <email address hidden>:
> Hirwen HARENDAL, I was successful in creating the desired kerning effect
> in Ubuntu 10.10, Microsoft Word 2003 via WINE by highlighting the text
> with font Houros ADF -> secondary click the highlighted text -> primary
> click Font... -> Character Spacing tab -> to the right of Spacing: click
> the drop-down box and choose Condensed -> to the right of Condensed
> click the combo-box and choose 5.0pt -> click OK button.

** Sorry christopher, spacing isn't kerning, please see explanations in my
previous message and attached odt file for difference. I used Baskervald
since this font use both kerning informations.

> Please see attached msword2003-screenshot.png.

** it seems that kerning isn't activated in your screenshot. you have
just activate
it without make any spacing adjustment.

The question is to know if Libreoffice can read the GPOS table kerning
informations.
or standard kerning table only.
--
Hirwen HARENDAL

[penalvch (penalvch)]

Hirwen HARENDAL, after examining the information you have given us, this does not appear to be a bug report so we are closing it and converting it to a question in the support tracker. We understand the difficulties you are facing, but it would make more sense to raise problems you are having in the support tracker at https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu if you are uncertain if they are bugs. For help on reporting bugs, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs.

[Hirwen HARENDAL (harendalh)]

Hi christopher

2011/4/30 Christopher M. Penalver <email address hidden>:
> Hirwen HARENDAL, after examining the information you have given us, this
> does not appear to be a bug report so we are closing it and converting
> it to a question in the support tracker. We understand the difficulties
> you are facing, but it would make more sense to raise problems you are
> having in the support tracker at https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu if
> you are uncertain if they are bugs. For help on reporting bugs, see
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs.

I'm thinking now that is more a bug in Ubuntu since, all works in Ooo on WIn
See Files attached. If you work with the .odtt file with Libreoffice on Ubuntu,
the first lines for each font are the same as no kerning and not like
the screenshot
made from OOo and WIN. The fonts used are the same for both OS.
In addition, no problem with font selection style in WIN at start.

--
Hirwen HARENDAL

[Hirwen HARENDAL (harendalh)]

status change to new, with new compoments

[penalvch (penalvch)]

Hirwen HARENDAL, unfortunately this issue is untestable for the font Minion Pro as it is a proprietary font not included natively with Ubuntu, nor reproducible with the fonts attached in Ubuntu 10.10 or 11.04 via Word, LibreOffice, or OpenOffice.

As your claiming this issue occurs with Minion Pro, then this bug will be focusing solely on Minion Pro and will not be expanded if not reproducible to limit scope creep and get to the bottom of this issue.

Thank you for your understanding in this.

[Hirwen HARENDAL (harendalh)]

Good evening Christopher

2011/5/3 Christopher M. Penalver <email address hidden>:
> Hirwen HARENDAL, unfortunately this issue is untestable for the font
> Minion Pro as it is a proprietary font not included natively with
> Ubuntu, nor reproducible with the fonts attached in Ubuntu 10.10 or
> 11.04 via Word, LibreOffice, or OpenOffice.
>
> As your claiming this issue occurs with Minion Pro, then this bug will
> be focusing solely on Minion Pro and will not be expanded if not
> reproducible to limit scope creep and get to the bottom of this issue.

** Sorry, I'm not sure to understand...
Is this reproducible ? Yes, by using Houros. This font is built like Minion pro
kerning feature, and under SIL OFL license. You can also reproduce this, if my
mind is good, with the old Electrum ADF package available from Debian or Ubuntu.
I can also send you the Pro version under development I'm working on, or
anything else similar.
So that not concerns Minion pro only, but all OTF and TTF using new OT
technology.
The best in this case is probably forget minion pro ;-)
Is a bug ? Certainly, since there is no reason that should work fine
on WIN and not
on Ubuntu, I think.

The interest here isn't fonts coming from Ubuntu natively, and maybe enough for
basic users, but, enterprises or professional works using proprietary
font softwares
for theirs business.
So I hope you will understand my insistence because this is more a
commercial aspect
of ubuntu use rather than as a home work station.

With all my thanks

_
Hirwen Harendal

[penalvch (penalvch)]

Hirwen HARENDAL, this bug is being closed for the following reason:

1) it violates the one bug per issue policy
2) it suffers from "scope creep"
3) it is unreproducible
4) step-by-step instructions on how to reproduce the problem is not described well.
5) The issue is not a bug at all but a design issue. However, the issues you are bringing up aren't really a bug and require more discussion, which should be done on an appropriate mailing list or forum. LibreOffice mailing lists may be found at: http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/

[morsch (moritz-schallaboeck)]

This is upstream bug #31764 http://openoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=31764 and a duplicate of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/280019

Confusing font kerning and manually respacing the font is kind of a bizarre move from someone in the Ubuntu LibreOffice team. I think this bug report was poorly handled.