exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

[Debian Bug Importer]

Automatically imported from Debian bug report #301906 http://bugs.debian.org/301906

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Automatically imported from Debian bug report #301906 http://bugs.debian.org/301906

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 05:02:45 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <email address hidden>
Subject: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

Package: exim4
Version: 4.50-4
Severity: critical
Justification: causes serious data loss

For several days, all messages sent to local addresses are lost.
In /var/log/exim4/mainlog:

2005-03-29 04:50:40 1DG6oS-0003Xy-KZ <= <email address hidden> U=lefevre P=local S=711 <email address hidden>
2005-03-29 04:50:40 1DG6oS-0003Xy-KZ ** lefevre@ay: Unrouteable address

"ay" is the mailname value, so that it should be the local route
as before.

-- Package-specific info:
Exim version 4.50 #1 built 02-Mar-2005 19:38:55
Copyright (c) University of Cambridge 2004
Berkeley DB: Sleepycat Software: Berkeley DB 4.2.52: (December 3, 2003)
Support for: iconv() IPv6 GnuTLS
Lookups: lsearch wildlsearch nwildlsearch iplsearch cdb dbm dbmnz dsearch nis nis0 passwd
Authenticators: cram_md5 plaintext
Routers: accept dnslookup ipliteral manualroute queryprogram redirect
Transports: appendfile/maildir/mailstore autoreply lmtp pipe smtp
Fixed never_users: 0
Configuration file is /var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated
# /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf
#
# Edit this file and /etc/mailname by hand and execute update-exim4.conf
# yourself or use 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config'

dc_eximconfig_configtype='internet'
dc_other_hostnames=''
dc_local_interfaces='127.0.0.1'
dc_readhost=''
dc_relay_domains=''
dc_minimaldns='true'
dc_relay_nets=''
dc_smarthost='smtp.nerim.net'

CFILEMODE='644'
dc_use_split_config='false'
dc_hide_mailname=''
dc_mailname_in_oh='true'
mailname:ay

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (900, 'testing'), (200, 'unstable')
Architecture: powerpc (ppc)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.9-powerpc
Locale: LANG=POSIX, LC_CTYPE=en_US.ISO8859-1 (charmap=ISO-8859-1)

Versions of packages exim4 depends on:
ii exim4-base 4.50-4 support files for all exim MTA (v4
ii exim4-daemon-light 4.50-4 lightweight exim MTA (v4) daemon

-- no debconf information

[Browaeys-alban (browaeys-alban)]

> lefevre@ay

> dc_local_interfaces='127.0.0.1'

this should contain your "local" ip too ( ay domain ip).
I wonder how you ended up missing it as it is added by default by
the configurator. Did you made an exim4-config run ?

Is your ip for your ip for ay domain setup in /etc/hosts ?
/etc/resolv.conf is valid ? (can you ping ay ?)

Regards
Alban

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-bugs)]

retitle #301906 mailname is no longer a local domain
severity #301906 important
thanks

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 05:02:45AM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> For several days, all messages sent to local addresses are lost.
> In /var/log/exim4/mainlog:
>
> 2005-03-29 04:50:40 1DG6oS-0003Xy-KZ <= <email address hidden> U=lefevre P=local S=711 <email address hidden>
> 2005-03-29 04:50:40 1DG6oS-0003Xy-KZ ** lefevre@ay: Unrouteable address
>
> "ay" is the mailname value, so that it should be the local route
> as before.

This is an intended change in the package. The value of /etc/mailname
is no longer a local domain. This has been done to allow satellite and
smarthost setups to function properly. See
http://wiki.debian.net/?EtcMailName.

This will be mentioned in NEWS.Debian in one of the next uploads,
leaving the bug (with adjusted severity) open for reference.

Workaround: add local hostname to dc_other_hostnames in
/etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf

The criticality of the error could have been less if you had watched
your unstable system more closely after the update.

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 06:57:22 +0200
From: <email address hidden>
To: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug #301906 - exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

> lefevre@ay

> dc_local_interfaces='127.0.0.1'

this should contain your "local" ip too ( ay domain ip).
I wonder how you ended up missing it as it is added by default by
the configurator. Did you made an exim4-config run ?

Is your ip for your ip for ay domain setup in /etc/hosts ?
/etc/resolv.conf is valid ? (can you ping ay ?)

Regards
Alban

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:28:37 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>, <email address hidden>
Cc: Debian Bug Tracking System <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

retitle #301906 mailname is no longer a local domain
severity #301906 important
thanks

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 05:02:45AM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> For several days, all messages sent to local addresses are lost.
> In /var/log/exim4/mainlog:
>
> 2005-03-29 04:50:40 1DG6oS-0003Xy-KZ <= <email address hidden> U=lefevre P=local S=711 <email address hidden>
> 2005-03-29 04:50:40 1DG6oS-0003Xy-KZ ** lefevre@ay: Unrouteable address
>
> "ay" is the mailname value, so that it should be the local route
> as before.

This is an intended change in the package. The value of /etc/mailname
is no longer a local domain. This has been done to allow satellite and
smarthost setups to function properly. See
http://wiki.debian.net/?EtcMailName.

This will be mentioned in NEWS.Debian in one of the next uploads,
leaving the bug (with adjusted severity) open for reference.

Workaround: add local hostname to dc_other_hostnames in
/etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf

The criticality of the error could have been less if you had watched
your unstable system more closely after the update.

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-03-29 07:28:37 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> This will be mentioned in NEWS.Debian in one of the next uploads,
> leaving the bug (with adjusted severity) open for reference.
>
> Workaround: add local hostname to dc_other_hostnames in
> /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf

Thanks. The text from "dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config" should be
made clear too.

--
Vincent Lefèvre <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-bugs)]

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 10:08:59AM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 07:28:37 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > This will be mentioned in NEWS.Debian in one of the next uploads,
> > leaving the bug (with adjusted severity) open for reference.
> >
> > Workaround: add local hostname to dc_other_hostnames in
> > /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf
>
> Thanks.

We are currently contemplating whether that should be done
automatically on upgrade.

> The text from "dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config" should be
> made clear too.

If you're refering to a debconf text, changing that is a non-option at
this time of release due to 40 translations.

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-03-29 06:57:22 +0200, <email address hidden> wrote:
> > lefevre@ay
>
> > dc_local_interfaces='127.0.0.1'
>
> this should contain your "local" ip too ( ay domain ip).

I don't see why. I only accept the mail coming from the machine
itself, and the lo interface should be used for that. Also, the
"local" IP is not fixed.

> Is your ip for your ip for ay domain setup in /etc/hosts ?

Yes. Currently:

192.168.0.3 ay.vinc17.org ay

> /etc/resolv.conf is valid ? (can you ping ay ?)

I can ping ay:

ay:~> ping ay
PING ay.vinc17.org (192.168.0.3) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from ay.vinc17.org (192.168.0.3): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.109 ms
64 bytes from ay.vinc17.org (192.168.0.3): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.121 ms
[...]

--
Vincent Lefèvre <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:08:59 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-03-29 07:28:37 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> This will be mentioned in NEWS.Debian in one of the next uploads,
> leaving the bug (with adjusted severity) open for reference.
>
> Workaround: add local hostname to dc_other_hostnames in
> /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf

Thanks. The text from "dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config" should be
made clear too.

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:11:48 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 10:08:59AM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 07:28:37 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > This will be mentioned in NEWS.Debian in one of the next uploads,
> > leaving the bug (with adjusted severity) open for reference.
> >
> > Workaround: add local hostname to dc_other_hostnames in
> > /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf
>
> Thanks.

We are currently contemplating whether that should be done
automatically on upgrade.

> The text from "dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config" should be
> made clear too.

If you're refering to a debconf text, changing that is a non-option at
this time of release due to 40 translations.

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:15:02 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: <email address hidden>, <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: Bug #301906 - exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-03-29 06:57:22 +0200, <email address hidden> wrote:
> > lefevre@ay
>
> > dc_local_interfaces='127.0.0.1'
>
> this should contain your "local" ip too ( ay domain ip).

I don't see why. I only accept the mail coming from the machine
itself, and the lo interface should be used for that. Also, the
"local" IP is not fixed.

> Is your ip for your ip for ay domain setup in /etc/hosts ?

Yes. Currently:

192.168.0.3 ay.vinc17.org ay

> /etc/resolv.conf is valid ? (can you ping ay ?)

I can ping ay:

ay:~> ping ay
PING ay.vinc17.org (192.168.0.3) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from ay.vinc17.org (192.168.0.3): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.109 ms
64 bytes from ay.vinc17.org (192.168.0.3): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.121 ms
[...]

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-03-29 10:11:48 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 10:08:59AM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2005-03-29 07:28:37 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > > This will be mentioned in NEWS.Debian in one of the next uploads,
> > > leaving the bug (with adjusted severity) open for reference.
> > >
> > > Workaround: add local hostname to dc_other_hostnames in
> > > /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> We are currently contemplating whether that should be done
> automatically on upgrade.

This would be fine. However, the user should be aware of that. For
instance, my /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf file is generated
by netenv (my machine is a laptop), and the updated version would
be overwritten the next time I change the network environment.

--
Vincent Lefèvre <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-packages)]

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 03:15:58PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 10:11:48 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > We are currently contemplating whether that should be done
> > automatically on upgrade.
>
> This would be fine. However, the user should be aware of that.

NEWS.Debian is a must-read on unstable boxes, and the changelog maybe
as well.

We neglected to mention the changed behaviod in NEWS.Debian which is
an omission.

> For instance, my /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf file is generated
> by netenv (my machine is a laptop), and the updated version would be
> overwritten the next time I change the network environment.

Do you do that just for the sake of having a different smarthost?

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-packages)]

Do you remember which versions of exim4 you had before updating to
4.50-4?

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-03-29 15:27:05 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> NEWS.Debian is a must-read on unstable boxes, and the changelog maybe
> as well.

Yes, but unfortunately, it is presented just like the ChangeLog,
so that it is confusing.

> > For instance, my /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf file is generated
> > by netenv (my machine is a laptop), and the updated version would be
> > overwritten the next time I change the network environment.
>
> Do you do that just for the sake of having a different smarthost?

Yes, something like that. On some networks, I need
dc_eximconfig_configtype='internet' because the smarthost
is broken (and with dhcp, since I don't know how to get the
smarthost), and on other networks, I need to use a smarthost
because of firewalls.

--
Vincent Lefèvre <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:15:58 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-03-29 10:11:48 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 10:08:59AM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2005-03-29 07:28:37 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > > This will be mentioned in NEWS.Debian in one of the next uploads,
> > > leaving the bug (with adjusted severity) open for reference.
> > >
> > > Workaround: add local hostname to dc_other_hostnames in
> > > /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> We are currently contemplating whether that should be done
> automatically on upgrade.

This would be fine. However, the user should be aware of that. For
instance, my /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf file is generated
by netenv (my machine is a laptop), and the updated version would
be overwritten the next time I change the network environment.

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:27:05 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 03:15:58PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 10:11:48 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > We are currently contemplating whether that should be done
> > automatically on upgrade.
>
> This would be fine. However, the user should be aware of that.

NEWS.Debian is a must-read on unstable boxes, and the changelog maybe
as well.

We neglected to mention the changed behaviod in NEWS.Debian which is
an omission.

> For instance, my /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf file is generated
> by netenv (my machine is a laptop), and the updated version would be
> overwritten the next time I change the network environment.

Do you do that just for the sake of having a different smarthost?

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-03-29 15:41:39 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> Do you remember which versions of exim4 you had before updating to
> 4.50-4?

4.44-2, but I had the same problem with it.

--
Vincent Lefèvre <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-packages)]

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 04:56:27PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 15:27:05 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > NEWS.Debian is a must-read on unstable boxes, and the changelog maybe
> > as well.
>
> Yes, but unfortunately, it is presented just like the ChangeLog,
> so that it is confusing.

*shrug* I am not in a position to change _that_

> > Do you do that just for the sake of having a different smarthost?
>
> Yes, something like that. On some networks, I need
> dc_eximconfig_configtype='internet' because the smarthost
> is broken (and with dhcp, since I don't know how to get the
> smarthost), and on other networks, I need to use a smarthost
> because of firewalls.

I see. May I suggest that your ifdown code generates warnings if
ue4.conf.conf was changed inside a session?

Thankfully, I only have to change smarthosts, and am doing this by my
ifupdown code dropping an appropriate snippet into
/etc/exim4/conf.d/

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-packages)]

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 05:01:34PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 15:41:39 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > Do you remember which versions of exim4 you had before updating to
> > 4.50-4?
>
> 4.44-2, but I had the same problem with it.

Ok. Re-wording the questoin: Which transition did introduce the issue?

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:41:39 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

Do you remember which versions of exim4 you had before updating to
4.50-4?

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-03-29 17:05:10 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> I see. May I suggest that your ifdown code generates warnings if
> ue4.conf.conf was changed inside a session?

If you have any example...

But sometimes, I halt the machine, move it to another network
environment, and choose the new environment at boot time. In
this case, it may be difficult to see the warning at shutdown
time and remember it.

--
Vincent Lefèvre <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-03-29 17:14:16 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 05:01:34PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2005-03-29 15:41:39 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > > Do you remember which versions of exim4 you had before updating to
> > > 4.50-4?
> >
> > 4.44-2, but I had the same problem with it.
>
> Ok. Re-wording the questoin: Which transition did introduce the issue?

4.34-10 -> 4.44-2 AFAIK.

/var/cache/debconf/config.dat contained the following particular
differences:

 Name: exim4/dc_other_hostnames
 Template: exim4/dc_other_hostnames
-Value:
+Value: ay
 Owners: exim4-config
-Flags: seen
+Flags: mailname, seen
 Variables:
+ fqdn = ay.vinc17.org
  mailname = ay

and for /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template:

-# The default delivery method. See CONFDIR/conf.d/transports/ for other
-# possibilities
-LOCAL_DELIVERY=maildir_home
+# The default transport, set in /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf. See
+# CONFDIR/conf.d/transport/ for possibilities
+LOCAL_DELIVERY=DEBCONFlocaldeliveryDEBCONF

and

 # It looks up the real address of all local users in a file
 *@+local_domains ${lookup{${local_part}}lsearch{/etc/email-addresses}\
                    {$value}fail} Ffrs
+# identical rewriting rule for /etc/mailname
+DEBCONFrewriteemailaddresses_mailnameDEBCONF

-# The same as above, using outdated /etc/exim4/email-addresses, please
-# move its contents to /etc/email-addresses and delete
-# /etc/exim4/email-addresses
-*@+local_domains "${if exists {CONFDIR/email-addresses}\
- {${lookup{${local_part}}lsearch{CONFDIR/email-addresses}\
- {$value}fail}}fail}" Ffrs

--
Vincent Lefèvre <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-03-29 17:18:32 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 17:05:10 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > I see. May I suggest that your ifdown code generates warnings if
> > ue4.conf.conf was changed inside a session?
>
> If you have any example...
[...]

Better: my code that regenerates ue4.conf.conf should check if
something else has changed, so that only the internet/smarthost
config is updated. For the moment, it is just something like

  m4 [...] /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf.m4 > \
    /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf

but I could improve it.

--
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100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:56:27 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-03-29 15:27:05 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> NEWS.Debian is a must-read on unstable boxes, and the changelog maybe
> as well.

Yes, but unfortunately, it is presented just like the ChangeLog,
so that it is confusing.

> > For instance, my /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf file is generated
> > by netenv (my machine is a laptop), and the updated version would be
> > overwritten the next time I change the network environment.
>
> Do you do that just for the sake of having a different smarthost?

Yes, something like that. On some networks, I need
dc_eximconfig_configtype='internet' because the smarthost
is broken (and with dhcp, since I don't know how to get the
smarthost), and on other networks, I need to use a smarthost
because of firewalls.

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-packages)]

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 05:34:11PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 17:14:16 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > Ok. Re-wording the questoin: Which transition did introduce the issue?
>
> 4.34-10 -> 4.44-2 AFAIK.

Did you by any chance have that funky "unconditionally overwrite
ue4.conf.conf on each network change" configuation scheme in place
when you did that upgrade?

If so, I am inclined to judge that our code has fixed your
dc_other_hostnames setting during the upgrade, and the fixed
ue4.conf.conf was overwritten by an old version during the next
network change. If so, I'm inclined to say "tough luck" and will have
this bug closed with the next upload which will have the change to
mailname and local_domains handling documented in NEWS.Debian.

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:01:34 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-03-29 15:41:39 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> Do you remember which versions of exim4 you had before updating to
> 4.50-4?

4.44-2, but I had the same problem with it.

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:05:10 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 04:56:27PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 15:27:05 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > NEWS.Debian is a must-read on unstable boxes, and the changelog maybe
> > as well.
>
> Yes, but unfortunately, it is presented just like the ChangeLog,
> so that it is confusing.

*shrug* I am not in a position to change _that_

> > Do you do that just for the sake of having a different smarthost?
>
> Yes, something like that. On some networks, I need
> dc_eximconfig_configtype='internet' because the smarthost
> is broken (and with dhcp, since I don't know how to get the
> smarthost), and on other networks, I need to use a smarthost
> because of firewalls.

I see. May I suggest that your ifdown code generates warnings if
ue4.conf.conf was changed inside a session?

Thankfully, I only have to change smarthosts, and am doing this by my
ifupdown code dropping an appropriate snippet into
/etc/exim4/conf.d/

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:14:16 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 05:01:34PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 15:41:39 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > Do you remember which versions of exim4 you had before updating to
> > 4.50-4?
>
> 4.44-2, but I had the same problem with it.

Ok. Re-wording the questoin: Which transition did introduce the issue?

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:18:32 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-03-29 17:05:10 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> I see. May I suggest that your ifdown code generates warnings if
> ue4.conf.conf was changed inside a session?

If you have any example...

But sometimes, I halt the machine, move it to another network
environment, and choose the new environment at boot time. In
this case, it may be difficult to see the warning at shutdown
time and remember it.

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:34:11 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-03-29 17:14:16 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 05:01:34PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2005-03-29 15:41:39 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > > Do you remember which versions of exim4 you had before updating to
> > > 4.50-4?
> >
> > 4.44-2, but I had the same problem with it.
>
> Ok. Re-wording the questoin: Which transition did introduce the issue?

4.34-10 -> 4.44-2 AFAIK.

/var/cache/debconf/config.dat contained the following particular
differences:

 Name: exim4/dc_other_hostnames
 Template: exim4/dc_other_hostnames
-Value:
+Value: ay
 Owners: exim4-config
-Flags: seen
+Flags: mailname, seen
 Variables:
+ fqdn = ay.vinc17.org
  mailname = ay

and for /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template:

-# The default delivery method. See CONFDIR/conf.d/transports/ for other
-# possibilities
-LOCAL_DELIVERY=maildir_home
+# The default transport, set in /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf. See
+# CONFDIR/conf.d/transport/ for possibilities
+LOCAL_DELIVERY=DEBCONFlocaldeliveryDEBCONF

and

 # It looks up the real address of all local users in a file
 *@+local_domains ${lookup{${local_part}}lsearch{/etc/email-addresses}\
                    {$value}fail} Ffrs
+# identical rewriting rule for /etc/mailname
+DEBCONFrewriteemailaddresses_mailnameDEBCONF

-# The same as above, using outdated /etc/exim4/email-addresses, please
-# move its contents to /etc/email-addresses and delete
-# /etc/exim4/email-addresses
-*@+local_domains "${if exists {CONFDIR/email-addresses}\
- {${lookup{${local_part}}lsearch{CONFDIR/email-addresses}\
- {$value}fail}}fail}" Ffrs

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:38:31 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-03-29 17:18:32 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 17:05:10 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > I see. May I suggest that your ifdown code generates warnings if
> > ue4.conf.conf was changed inside a session?
>
> If you have any example...
[...]

Better: my code that regenerates ue4.conf.conf should check if
something else has changed, so that only the internet/smarthost
config is updated. For the moment, it is just something like

  m4 [...] /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf.m4 > \
    /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf

but I could improve it.

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Matt Zimmerman (mdz)]

I'm not sure whether this affects us, please investigate

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:58:39 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 05:34:11PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 17:14:16 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > Ok. Re-wording the questoin: Which transition did introduce the issue?
>
> 4.34-10 -> 4.44-2 AFAIK.

Did you by any chance have that funky "unconditionally overwrite
ue4.conf.conf on each network change" configuation scheme in place
when you did that upgrade?

If so, I am inclined to judge that our code has fixed your
dc_other_hostnames setting during the upgrade, and the fixed
ue4.conf.conf was overwritten by an old version during the next
network change. If so, I'm inclined to say "tough luck" and will have
this bug closed with the next upload which will have the change to
mailname and local_domains handling documented in NEWS.Debian.

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-03-29 18:58:39 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> Did you by any chance have that funky "unconditionally overwrite
> ue4.conf.conf on each network change" configuation scheme in place
> when you did that upgrade?

Yes, since I rebooted the machine.

diffmon watches for various configuration files every night, including
/etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf, but unfortunately, according to the
log files and mail headers, I rebooted the machine a few hours after
upgrading exim4, so that diffmon didn't have the time to detect the
change.

BTW, /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf says:

# Edit this file and /etc/mailname by hand and execute update-exim4.conf
# yourself or use 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config'

so the user may think that he has the full control of this file,
and I probably thought that when I switched to m4 to generate
the file. Compare to what is said at the beginning of
/var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated for instance. And I don't
remember of any announce saying that the file had been changed
during the upgrade.

IMHO, the comment should be updated.

--
Vincent Lefèvre <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-packages)]

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 09:46:18PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> BTW, /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf says:
>
> # Edit this file and /etc/mailname by hand and execute update-exim4.conf
> # yourself or use 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config'
>
> so the user may think that he has the full control of this file,

He has, but it is generated by debconf. Debconf reads in the file
and takes the values from there during reconfiguration of the package,
but having multiple versions of the file replacing each other
depending on environment is pretty exotic. That file is not a
dpkg-conffile for a reason, and there is no code that can read
administrator's minds.

> IMHO, the comment should be updated.

Frankly, I don't think that it makes sense to re-iterate the code
handling the file in a comment. Policy is pretty clear how
configuration files and conffiles are to be handled, and the code that
handles ue4.conf.conf is a shell script. And we never had the goal of
supporting 100 % of all possible configurations in the first place.

I don't see what the exim4 packages can do within reasonable bounds
regarding to this particular problem without leaving a gazillion of
other possible error cases unhandled.

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 21:46:18 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-03-29 18:58:39 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> Did you by any chance have that funky "unconditionally overwrite
> ue4.conf.conf on each network change" configuation scheme in place
> when you did that upgrade?

Yes, since I rebooted the machine.

diffmon watches for various configuration files every night, including
/etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf, but unfortunately, according to the
log files and mail headers, I rebooted the machine a few hours after
upgrading exim4, so that diffmon didn't have the time to detect the
change.

BTW, /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf says:

# Edit this file and /etc/mailname by hand and execute update-exim4.conf
# yourself or use 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config'

so the user may think that he has the full control of this file,
and I probably thought that when I switched to m4 to generate
the file. Compare to what is said at the beginning of
/var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated for instance. And I don't
remember of any announce saying that the file had been changed
during the upgrade.

IMHO, the comment should be updated.

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-03-29 22:49:13 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 09:46:18PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > BTW, /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf says:
> >
> > # Edit this file and /etc/mailname by hand and execute update-exim4.conf
> > # yourself or use 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config'
> >
> > so the user may think that he has the full control of this file,
>
> He has, but it is generated by debconf. Debconf reads in the file
> and takes the values from there during reconfiguration of the package,

and some changes by the user may be overwritten by a reconfiguration
of the package.

> but having multiple versions of the file replacing each other
> depending on environment is pretty exotic.

It's pretty common for those who use netenv.

[...]
> I don't see what the exim4 packages can do within reasonable bounds
> regarding to this particular problem without leaving a gazillion of
> other possible error cases unhandled.

Comments should be clear about who can modify the files and how.
If you want other examples, /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 begins with:

### BEGIN DEBCONF SECTION
# XF86Config-4 (XFree86 server configuration file) generated by dexconf, the
# Debian X Configuration tool, using values from the debconf database.
#
# Edit this file with caution, and see the XF86Config-4 manual page.
# (Type "man XF86Config-4" at the shell prompt.)
#
# If you want your changes to this file preserved by dexconf, only make changes
# before the "### BEGIN DEBCONF SECTION" line above, and/or after the
# "### END DEBCONF SECTION" line below.

and /etc/fonts/fonts.conf begins with:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<!-- /etc/fonts/fonts.conf file to configure system font access -->
<fontconfig>

<!--
        DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.
        IT WILL BE REPLACED WHEN FONTCONFIG IS UPDATED.
        LOCAL CHANGES BELONG IN 'local.conf'.

        The intent of this standard configuration file is to be adequate for
        most environments. If you have a reasonably normal environment and
        have found problems with this configuration, they are probably
        things that others will also want fixed. Please submit any
        problems to the fontconfig bugzilla system located at fontconfig.org

        Note that the normal 'make install' procedure for fontconfig is to
        replace any existing fonts.conf file with the new version. Place
        any local customizations in local.conf which this file references.

        Keith Packard
-->

--
Vincent Lefèvre <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:49:13 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 09:46:18PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> BTW, /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf says:
>
> # Edit this file and /etc/mailname by hand and execute update-exim4.conf
> # yourself or use 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config'
>
> so the user may think that he has the full control of this file,

He has, but it is generated by debconf. Debconf reads in the file
and takes the values from there during reconfiguration of the package,
but having multiple versions of the file replacing each other
depending on environment is pretty exotic. That file is not a
dpkg-conffile for a reason, and there is no code that can read
administrator's minds.

> IMHO, the comment should be updated.

Frankly, I don't think that it makes sense to re-iterate the code
handling the file in a comment. Policy is pretty clear how
configuration files and conffiles are to be handled, and the code that
handles ue4.conf.conf is a shell script. And we never had the goal of
supporting 100 % of all possible configurations in the first place.

I don't see what the exim4 packages can do within reasonable bounds
regarding to this particular problem without leaving a gazillion of
other possible error cases unhandled.

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:52:16 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-03-29 22:49:13 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 09:46:18PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > BTW, /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf says:
> >
> > # Edit this file and /etc/mailname by hand and execute update-exim4.conf
> > # yourself or use 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config'
> >
> > so the user may think that he has the full control of this file,
>
> He has, but it is generated by debconf. Debconf reads in the file
> and takes the values from there during reconfiguration of the package,

and some changes by the user may be overwritten by a reconfiguration
of the package.

> but having multiple versions of the file replacing each other
> depending on environment is pretty exotic.

It's pretty common for those who use netenv.

[...]
> I don't see what the exim4 packages can do within reasonable bounds
> regarding to this particular problem without leaving a gazillion of
> other possible error cases unhandled.

Comments should be clear about who can modify the files and how.
If you want other examples, /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 begins with:

### BEGIN DEBCONF SECTION
# XF86Config-4 (XFree86 server configuration file) generated by dexconf, the
# Debian X Configuration tool, using values from the debconf database.
#
# Edit this file with caution, and see the XF86Config-4 manual page.
# (Type "man XF86Config-4" at the shell prompt.)
#
# If you want your changes to this file preserved by dexconf, only make changes
# before the "### BEGIN DEBCONF SECTION" line above, and/or after the
# "### END DEBCONF SECTION" line below.

and /etc/fonts/fonts.conf begins with:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<!-- /etc/fonts/fonts.conf file to configure system font access -->
<fontconfig>

<!--
        DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.
        IT WILL BE REPLACED WHEN FONTCONFIG IS UPDATED.
        LOCAL CHANGES BELONG IN 'local.conf'.

        The intent of this standard configuration file is to be adequate for
        most environments. If you have a reasonably normal environment and
        have found problems with this configuration, they are probably
        things that others will also want fixed. Please submit any
        problems to the fontconfig bugzilla system located at fontconfig.org

        Note that the normal 'make install' procedure for fontconfig is to
        replace any existing fonts.conf file with the new version. Place
        any local customizations in local.conf which this file references.

        Keith Packard
-->

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Adam Conrad (adconrad)]

This change was introduced with Debian's version 4.43-3, while hoary is
shipping with 4.34-10. Even if that were not the case, I tend to agree
with the upstream maintainers here that "my config file was fixed for me,
then I ran a script that replaced it with an old broken one" doesn't seem
like much of a valid complaint.

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-packages)]

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 05:38:31PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 17:18:32 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2005-03-29 17:05:10 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > > I see. May I suggest that your ifdown code generates warnings if
> > > ue4.conf.conf was changed inside a session?
> >
> > If you have any example...
> [...]
>
> Better: my code that regenerates ue4.conf.conf should check if
> something else has changed, so that only the internet/smarthost
> config is updated. For the moment, it is just something like
>
> m4 [...] /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf.m4 > \
> /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf
>
> but I could improve it.

If you would be willing to step back from using m4 and do it in a
shellscript, /var/lib/dpkg/info/exim4-config.config and
/var/lib/dpkg/info/exim4-config.postist could give some code examples.

Greetings
Marc

--
<email address hidden> syscovery network services GmbH
Dipl.-Inform. Weinheimer Straße 68
Geschäftsführer D-68309 Mannheim
Tel: +49 [0] 621 71768 57 http://www.syscovery.com/

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-packages)]

Hi Vincent,

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 11:52:16PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 22:49:13 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 09:46:18PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > BTW, /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf says:
> > >
> > > # Edit this file and /etc/mailname by hand and execute update-exim4.conf
> > > # yourself or use 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config'
> > >
> > > so the user may think that he has the full control of this file,
> >
> > He has, but it is generated by debconf. Debconf reads in the file
> > and takes the values from there during reconfiguration of the package,
>
> and some changes by the user may be overwritten by a reconfiguration
> of the package.

Usually not. The code handling update-exim4.conf.conf carefully reads
in the settings before changes.

Our current issue is the other way round: update-exim4.conf.conf
correctly fixed up your configuration file, preserving all local
changes that it was able to see. And you overwrote the fixed code with
the output of your m4 script. I don't see what the exim4 configuration
can do here. I mean, for our code this looks like "ok, we fixed
dc_other_hostnames once, but the local admin decided that he didn't
like our change and undid it. Oh well." Actually, what you did was a
local change, and we are bound to respect that one.

We changed our default behavior, and adapted the configuration in a
way that doesn't change overall behavior. Your code undid our
configuration adaption, resulting in the application behaving
according to the new default.

> > but having multiple versions of the file replacing each other
> > depending on environment is pretty exotic.
>
> It's pretty common for those who use netenv.

But done wrong.

> > I don't see what the exim4 packages can do within reasonable bounds
> > regarding to this particular problem without leaving a gazillion of
> > other possible error cases unhandled.
>
> Comments should be clear about who can modify the files and how.

Anybody can modify update-exim4.conf.conf, and changes done locally
are respected. And you have proven that this works.

> If you want other examples, /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 begins with:
>
> ### BEGIN DEBCONF SECTION
> # XF86Config-4 (XFree86 server configuration file) generated by dexconf, the
> # Debian X Configuration tool, using values from the debconf database.
> #
> # Edit this file with caution, and see the XF86Config-4 manual page.
> # (Type "man XF86Config-4" at the shell prompt.)
> #
> # If you want your changes to this file preserved by dexconf, only make changes
> # before the "### BEGIN DEBCONF SECTION" line above, and/or after the
> # "### END DEBCONF SECTION" line below.

This is much worse than what we do: dexconf unconditionally overwrites
what is in between the BEGIN and END line while we respect all local
changes.

> and /etc/fonts/fonts.conf begins with:
>
> <!--
> DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.
> IT WILL BE REPLACED WHEN FONTCONFIG IS UPDATED.
> LOCAL CHANGES BELONG IN 'local.conf'.

So that file doesn't belong in /etc, it should be in /var. It is the
equivalent to our /var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated

I have adapted our postinst to dump t...

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-packages)]

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 06:57:22AM +0200, <email address hidden> wrote:
> > lefevre@ay
>
> > dc_local_interfaces='127.0.0.1'
>
> this should contain your "local" ip too ( ay domain ip).

Why? If you want exim to listen on all interfaces, set
dc_local_interfaces to ''. Actually, this is what the debconf
interface does since there is a debconf question about which
interfaces exim should listen on.

> I wonder how you ended up missing it as it is added by default by
> the configurator.

No, it is not. We only handle IP addresses directly delivered by the
admin to debconf, or 127.0.0.1

Greetings
Marc

--
<email address hidden> syscovery network services GmbH
Dipl.-Inform. Weinheimer Straße 68
Geschäftsführer D-68309 Mannheim
Tel: +49 [0] 621 71768 57 http://www.syscovery.com/

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-04-02 11:06:07 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> If you would be willing to step back from using m4 and do it in a
> shellscript, /var/lib/dpkg/info/exim4-config.config and
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/exim4-config.postist could give some code examples.

A good shell script would probably be more robust but there is a higher
risk of bugs (e.g. due to locale-sensitive commands, which have led to
many bugs in Debian). And this has no effect on the heart of the problem.
For instance, variable names such as dc_smarthost could change, ditto for
the value of dc_eximconfig_configtype. In such a case, the shell script
could also lead to an incorrect config file.

IMHO, the only good solution would be that the user (via his netenv
config scripts for instance) detects that the config file had changed,
in which case only a manual fix is safe. If the file had not changed,
m4 can still be used safely.

--
Vincent Lefèvre <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-04-02 11:32:24 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> Our current issue is the other way round: update-exim4.conf.conf
> correctly fixed up your configuration file, preserving all local
> changes that it was able to see. And you overwrote the fixed code with
> the output of your m4 script. I don't see what the exim4 configuration
> can do here.

Probably nothing, and I don't think this would be necessary as long
as the user has been warned that a change has occurred (or may have
occurred). IMHO, an announce in the NEWS file is not sufficient, for
several reasons (e.g. it appears just like the ChangeLog displayed
with apt-listchanges). If this is an exceptional change (like here),
then a dialog box should be displayed during the dpkg-reconfigure.
Other packages do this.

> > > but having multiple versions of the file replacing each other
> > > depending on environment is pretty exotic.
> >
> > It's pretty common for those who use netenv.
>
> But done wrong.

This is often done like this (often with symbolic links, which I used
to use... until some broken software incorrectly overwrote my config
file following the symlink).

> > Comments should be clear about who can modify the files and how.
>
> Anybody can modify update-exim4.conf.conf, and changes done locally
> are respected. And you have proven that this works.

OK, so the real problem was that the change hadn't been announced.

> > and /etc/fonts/fonts.conf begins with:
> >
> > <!--
> > DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.
> > IT WILL BE REPLACED WHEN FONTCONFIG IS UPDATED.
> > LOCAL CHANGES BELONG IN 'local.conf'.
>
> So that file doesn't belong in /etc, it should be in /var. It is the
> equivalent to our /var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated

Is there a policy for config files (concerning this and also the
various problems above)?

> I have adapted our postinst to dump the following comment into
> ue4.conf.conf:
> # Please note that this is _not_ a dpkg-conffile and that automatic changes
> # to this file might happen. This is usually fine, but will break local
> # schemes that mess around with multiple versions of the file.

Thanks. This is really clear now. Also, when there is a change,
a dialog box at dpkg-reconfigure time would be nice (to warn the
user and to describe the change), since the change is done at
this time precisely.

--
Vincent Lefèvre <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-packages)]

On Sat, Apr 02, 2005 at 01:33:57PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> If this is an exceptional change (like here),
> then a dialog box should be displayed during the dpkg-reconfigure.
> Other packages do this.

This is frequently condemned as Debconf abuse, and for exim 4, it is a
non-option at this time of release - it would invalidate translation
to currently 40 languages.

I won't do this.

> > > > but having multiple versions of the file replacing each other
> > > > depending on environment is pretty exotic.
> > >
> > > It's pretty common for those who use netenv.
> >
> > But done wrong.
>
> This is often done like this (often with symbolic links, which I used
> to use... until some broken software incorrectly overwrote my config
> file following the symlink).

So, the exim 4 packages are "broken software" from your point of view?
If so, please take the issue to the tech ctte, as we agree to disagree
here ;)

> > > Comments should be clear about who can modify the files and how.
> >
> > Anybody can modify update-exim4.conf.conf, and changes done locally
> > are respected. And you have proven that this works.
>
> OK, so the real problem was that the change hadn't been announced.

We have catched up in that regard.

> > > and /etc/fonts/fonts.conf begins with:
> > >
> > > <!--
> > > DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.
> > > IT WILL BE REPLACED WHEN FONTCONFIG IS UPDATED.
> > > LOCAL CHANGES BELONG IN 'local.conf'.
> >
> > So that file doesn't belong in /etc, it should be in /var. It is the
> > equivalent to our /var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated
>
> Is there a policy for config files (concerning this and also the
> various problems above)?

This is described pretty extensively in chapter 10.7 of Debian policy.

> Also, when there is a change, a dialog box at dpkg-reconfigure time
> would be nice (to warn the user and to describe the change), since
> the change is done at this time precisely.

Impossible for sarge, and condemned Debconf abuse for etch.

Greetinhs
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Vincent Lefevre (vincent-vinc17)]

On 2005-04-02 14:59:50 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 02, 2005 at 01:33:57PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > If this is an exceptional change (like here), then a dialog box
> > should be displayed during the dpkg-reconfigure. Other packages do
> > this.
>
> This is frequently condemned as Debconf abuse,

Does the Debian Policy Manual say that?

> > This is often done like this (often with symbolic links, which I used
> > to use... until some broken software incorrectly overwrote my config
> > file following the symlink).
>
> So, the exim 4 packages are "broken software" from your point of view?

Not necessarily. FYI, it was bug 177846.

> > Is there a policy for config files (concerning this and also the
> > various problems above)?
>
> This is described pretty extensively in chapter 10.7 of Debian policy.

It says:

| 10.7.3 Behavior
|
| Configuration file handling must conform to the following behavior:
|
| * local changes must be preserved during a package upgrade, [...]

As my netenv script overwrites the whole configuration file, the whole
file was locally changed, and the whole file should have been preserved
during the upgrade.

--
Vincent Lefèvre <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-packages)]

On Sat, Apr 02, 2005 at 10:21:26PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-04-02 14:59:50 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 02, 2005 at 01:33:57PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > If this is an exceptional change (like here), then a dialog box
> > > should be displayed during the dpkg-reconfigure. Other packages do
> > > this.
> >
> > This is frequently condemned as Debconf abuse,
>
> Does the Debian Policy Manual say that?

No, it is only best current practice.

> > > This is often done like this (often with symbolic links, which I used
> > > to use... until some broken software incorrectly overwrote my config
> > > file following the symlink).
> >
> > So, the exim 4 packages are "broken software" from your point of view?
>
> Not necessarily. FYI, it was bug 177846.

Hm. A border case, IMO.

> > > Is there a policy for config files (concerning this and also the
> > > various problems above)?
> >
> > This is described pretty extensively in chapter 10.7 of Debian policy.
>
> It says:
>
> | 10.7.3 Behavior
> |
> | Configuration file handling must conform to the following behavior:
> |
> | * local changes must be preserved during a package upgrade, [...]
>
> As my netenv script overwrites the whole configuration file, the whole
> file was locally changed, and the whole file should have been preserved
> during the upgrade.

Policy doesn't mandate "if a file was touched by the local admin,
leave it alone completely". It does mandate that local changes to the
file must be preserved. Automatic changes are still allowed.

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Marc Haber (mh+debian-packages)]

Source: exim4
Source-Version: 4.50-5

We believe that the bug you reported is fixed in the latest version of
exim4, which is due to be installed in the Debian FTP archive:

exim4-base_4.50-5_i386.deb
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4-base_4.50-5_i386.deb
exim4-config_4.50-5_all.deb
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4-config_4.50-5_all.deb
exim4-daemon-heavy_4.50-5_i386.deb
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4-daemon-heavy_4.50-5_i386.deb
exim4-daemon-light_4.50-5_i386.deb
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4-daemon-light_4.50-5_i386.deb
exim4_4.50-5.diff.gz
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4_4.50-5.diff.gz
exim4_4.50-5.dsc
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4_4.50-5.dsc
exim4_4.50-5_all.deb
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4_4.50-5_all.deb
eximon4_4.50-5_i386.deb
  to pool/main/e/exim4/eximon4_4.50-5_i386.deb

A summary of the changes between this version and the previous one is
attached.

Thank you for reporting the bug, which will now be closed. If you
have further comments please address them to <email address hidden>,
and the maintainer will reopen the bug report if appropriate.

Debian distribution maintenance software
pp.
Marc Haber <email address hidden> (supplier of updated exim4 package)

(This message was generated automatically at their request; if you
believe that there is a problem with it please contact the archive
administrators by mailing <email address hidden>)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Format: 1.7
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 07:20:17 +0000
Source: exim4
Binary: eximon4 exim4-daemon-custom exim4-daemon-heavy exim4-base exim4 exim4-daemon-light exim4-config
Architecture: source i386 all
Version: 4.50-5
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Exim4 Maintainers <email address hidden>
Changed-By: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Description:
 exim4 - metapackage to ease exim MTA (v4) installation
 exim4-base - support files for all exim MTA (v4) packages
 exim4-config - configuration for the exim MTA (v4)
 exim4-daemon-heavy - exim MTA (v4) daemon with extended features, including exiscan-ac
 exim4-daemon-light - lightweight exim MTA (v4) daemon
 eximon4 - monitor application for the exim MTA (v4) (X11 interface)
Closes: 286721 296492 299051 299732 299858 300967 301906 301940 302060 302215
Changes:
 exim4 (4.50-5) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * move exim4-config-simple and exim4-config-medium from the main
     source package to keep them from being released.
   * document the fact that the check done by update-exim4.conf does
     not detect all possible errors and fails with errors that are inside
     expanded items in the config file. Thanks to Marc Sherman.
     (mh) Closes: 286721
   * Add examples for cyrus_sasl to conf.d/auth/30_exim4-config_examples.
     Thanks to Juergen Kreileder. (mh) Closes: #299732
   * remove --dry-run from 10_daemon_close_fds.dpatch so that failures
     to patch cause failure. Thanks to Gergely Nagy, and apologies for
     blaming it on dpatch (see #297670). (mh)
   * remove ACL example file, incorporate DNSBL examples (without
     actual DNSBL domains) into main config. The example file hasn't been
     updated in ages, and the main config file has become qu...

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:06:07 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>, <email address hidden>
Cc: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 05:38:31PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 17:18:32 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2005-03-29 17:05:10 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > > I see. May I suggest that your ifdown code generates warnings if
> > > ue4.conf.conf was changed inside a session?
> >
> > If you have any example...
> [...]
>
> Better: my code that regenerates ue4.conf.conf should check if
> something else has changed, so that only the internet/smarthost
> config is updated. For the moment, it is just something like
>
> m4 [...] /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf.m4 > \
> /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf
>
> but I could improve it.

If you would be willing to step back from using m4 and do it in a
shellscript, /var/lib/dpkg/info/exim4-config.config and
/var/lib/dpkg/info/exim4-config.postist could give some code examples.

Greetings
Marc

--
<email address hidden> syscovery network services GmbH
Dipl.-Inform. Weinheimer Stra� 68
Gesch�sf� D-68309 Mannheim
Tel: +49 [0] 621 71768 57 http://www.syscovery.com/

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:32:24 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>, <email address hidden>
Cc: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

Hi Vincent,

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 11:52:16PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-03-29 22:49:13 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 09:46:18PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > BTW, /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf says:
> > >
> > > # Edit this file and /etc/mailname by hand and execute update-exim4.conf
> > > # yourself or use 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config'
> > >
> > > so the user may think that he has the full control of this file,
> >
> > He has, but it is generated by debconf. Debconf reads in the file
> > and takes the values from there during reconfiguration of the package,
>
> and some changes by the user may be overwritten by a reconfiguration
> of the package.

Usually not. The code handling update-exim4.conf.conf carefully reads
in the settings before changes.

Our current issue is the other way round: update-exim4.conf.conf
correctly fixed up your configuration file, preserving all local
changes that it was able to see. And you overwrote the fixed code with
the output of your m4 script. I don't see what the exim4 configuration
can do here. I mean, for our code this looks like "ok, we fixed
dc_other_hostnames once, but the local admin decided that he didn't
like our change and undid it. Oh well." Actually, what you did was a
local change, and we are bound to respect that one.

We changed our default behavior, and adapted the configuration in a
way that doesn't change overall behavior. Your code undid our
configuration adaption, resulting in the application behaving
according to the new default.

> > but having multiple versions of the file replacing each other
> > depending on environment is pretty exotic.
>
> It's pretty common for those who use netenv.

But done wrong.

> > I don't see what the exim4 packages can do within reasonable bounds
> > regarding to this particular problem without leaving a gazillion of
> > other possible error cases unhandled.
>
> Comments should be clear about who can modify the files and how.

Anybody can modify update-exim4.conf.conf, and changes done locally
are respected. And you have proven that this works.

> If you want other examples, /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 begins with:
>
> ### BEGIN DEBCONF SECTION
> # XF86Config-4 (XFree86 server configuration file) generated by dexconf, the
> # Debian X Configuration tool, using values from the debconf database.
> #
> # Edit this file with caution, and see the XF86Config-4 manual page.
> # (Type "man XF86Config-4" at the shell prompt.)
> #
> # If you want your changes to this file preserved by dexconf, only make changes
> # before the "### BEGIN DEBCONF SECTION" line above, and/or after the
> # "### END DEBCONF SECTION" line below.

This is much worse than what we do: dexconf unconditionally overwrites
what is in between the BEGIN and END line while we respect all local
changes.

> and /etc...

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 12:00:11 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>,
 Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Re: Bug #301906 - exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On Tue, Mar 29, 2005 at 06:57:22AM +0200, <email address hidden> wrote:
> > lefevre@ay
>
> > dc_local_interfaces='127.0.0.1'
>
> this should contain your "local" ip too ( ay domain ip).

Why? If you want exim to listen on all interfaces, set
dc_local_interfaces to ''. Actually, this is what the debconf
interface does since there is a debconf question about which
interfaces exim should listen on.

> I wonder how you ended up missing it as it is added by default by
> the configurator.

No, it is not. We only handle IP addresses directly delivered by the
admin to debconf, or 127.0.0.1

Greetings
Marc

--
<email address hidden> syscovery network services GmbH
Dipl.-Inform. Weinheimer Stra� 68
Gesch�sf� D-68309 Mannheim
Tel: +49 [0] 621 71768 57 http://www.syscovery.com/

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:13:11 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-04-02 11:06:07 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> If you would be willing to step back from using m4 and do it in a
> shellscript, /var/lib/dpkg/info/exim4-config.config and
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/exim4-config.postist could give some code examples.

A good shell script would probably be more robust but there is a higher
risk of bugs (e.g. due to locale-sensitive commands, which have led to
many bugs in Debian). And this has no effect on the heart of the problem.
For instance, variable names such as dc_smarthost could change, ditto for
the value of dc_eximconfig_configtype. In such a case, the shell script
could also lead to an incorrect config file.

IMHO, the only good solution would be that the user (via his netenv
config scripts for instance) detects that the config file had changed,
in which case only a manual fix is safe. If the file had not changed,
m4 can still be used safely.

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:33:57 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-04-02 11:32:24 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> Our current issue is the other way round: update-exim4.conf.conf
> correctly fixed up your configuration file, preserving all local
> changes that it was able to see. And you overwrote the fixed code with
> the output of your m4 script. I don't see what the exim4 configuration
> can do here.

Probably nothing, and I don't think this would be necessary as long
as the user has been warned that a change has occurred (or may have
occurred). IMHO, an announce in the NEWS file is not sufficient, for
several reasons (e.g. it appears just like the ChangeLog displayed
with apt-listchanges). If this is an exceptional change (like here),
then a dialog box should be displayed during the dpkg-reconfigure.
Other packages do this.

> > > but having multiple versions of the file replacing each other
> > > depending on environment is pretty exotic.
> >
> > It's pretty common for those who use netenv.
>
> But done wrong.

This is often done like this (often with symbolic links, which I used
to use... until some broken software incorrectly overwrote my config
file following the symlink).

> > Comments should be clear about who can modify the files and how.
>
> Anybody can modify update-exim4.conf.conf, and changes done locally
> are respected. And you have proven that this works.

OK, so the real problem was that the change hadn't been announced.

> > and /etc/fonts/fonts.conf begins with:
> >
> > <!--
> > DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.
> > IT WILL BE REPLACED WHEN FONTCONFIG IS UPDATED.
> > LOCAL CHANGES BELONG IN 'local.conf'.
>
> So that file doesn't belong in /etc, it should be in /var. It is the
> equivalent to our /var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated

Is there a policy for config files (concerning this and also the
various problems above)?

> I have adapted our postinst to dump the following comment into
> ue4.conf.conf:
> # Please note that this is _not_ a dpkg-conffile and that automatic changes
> # to this file might happen. This is usually fine, but will break local
> # schemes that mess around with multiple versions of the file.

Thanks. This is really clear now. Also, when there is a change,
a dialog box at dpkg-reconfigure time would be nice (to warn the
user and to describe the change), since the change is done at
this time precisely.

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 14:59:50 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>, <email address hidden>
Cc: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On Sat, Apr 02, 2005 at 01:33:57PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> If this is an exceptional change (like here),
> then a dialog box should be displayed during the dpkg-reconfigure.
> Other packages do this.

This is frequently condemned as Debconf abuse, and for exim 4, it is a
non-option at this time of release - it would invalidate translation
to currently 40 languages.

I won't do this.

> > > > but having multiple versions of the file replacing each other
> > > > depending on environment is pretty exotic.
> > >
> > > It's pretty common for those who use netenv.
> >
> > But done wrong.
>
> This is often done like this (often with symbolic links, which I used
> to use... until some broken software incorrectly overwrote my config
> file following the symlink).

So, the exim 4 packages are "broken software" from your point of view?
If so, please take the issue to the tech ctte, as we agree to disagree
here ;)

> > > Comments should be clear about who can modify the files and how.
> >
> > Anybody can modify update-exim4.conf.conf, and changes done locally
> > are respected. And you have proven that this works.
>
> OK, so the real problem was that the change hadn't been announced.

We have catched up in that regard.

> > > and /etc/fonts/fonts.conf begins with:
> > >
> > > <!--
> > > DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.
> > > IT WILL BE REPLACED WHEN FONTCONFIG IS UPDATED.
> > > LOCAL CHANGES BELONG IN 'local.conf'.
> >
> > So that file doesn't belong in /etc, it should be in /var. It is the
> > equivalent to our /var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated
>
> Is there a policy for config files (concerning this and also the
> various problems above)?

This is described pretty extensively in chapter 10.7 of Debian policy.

> Also, when there is a change, a dialog box at dpkg-reconfigure time
> would be nice (to warn the user and to describe the change), since
> the change is done at this time precisely.

Impossible for sarge, and condemned Debconf abuse for etch.

Greetinhs
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:21:26 +0200
From: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
To: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On 2005-04-02 14:59:50 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 02, 2005 at 01:33:57PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > If this is an exceptional change (like here), then a dialog box
> > should be displayed during the dpkg-reconfigure. Other packages do
> > this.
>
> This is frequently condemned as Debconf abuse,

Does the Debian Policy Manual say that?

> > This is often done like this (often with symbolic links, which I used
> > to use... until some broken software incorrectly overwrote my config
> > file following the symlink).
>
> So, the exim 4 packages are "broken software" from your point of view?

Not necessarily. FYI, it was bug 177846.

> > Is there a policy for config files (concerning this and also the
> > various problems above)?
>
> This is described pretty extensively in chapter 10.7 of Debian policy.

It says:

| 10.7.3 Behavior
|
| Configuration file handling must conform to the following behavior:
|
| * local changes must be preserved during a package upgrade, [...]

As my netenv script overwrites the whole configuration file, the whole
file was locally changed, and the whole file should have been preserved
during the upgrade.

--
Vincent Lef�e <email address hidden> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-ID: <email address hidden>
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 23:04:35 +0200
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: Vincent Lefevre <email address hidden>
Cc: <email address hidden>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Bug#301906: exim4: Mail messages sent to local addresses are lost

On Sat, Apr 02, 2005 at 10:21:26PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2005-04-02 14:59:50 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 02, 2005 at 01:33:57PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > If this is an exceptional change (like here), then a dialog box
> > > should be displayed during the dpkg-reconfigure. Other packages do
> > > this.
> >
> > This is frequently condemned as Debconf abuse,
>
> Does the Debian Policy Manual say that?

No, it is only best current practice.

> > > This is often done like this (often with symbolic links, which I used
> > > to use... until some broken software incorrectly overwrote my config
> > > file following the symlink).
> >
> > So, the exim 4 packages are "broken software" from your point of view?
>
> Not necessarily. FYI, it was bug 177846.

Hm. A border case, IMO.

> > > Is there a policy for config files (concerning this and also the
> > > various problems above)?
> >
> > This is described pretty extensively in chapter 10.7 of Debian policy.
>
> It says:
>
> | 10.7.3 Behavior
> |
> | Configuration file handling must conform to the following behavior:
> |
> | * local changes must be preserved during a package upgrade, [...]
>
> As my netenv script overwrites the whole configuration file, the whole
> file was locally changed, and the whole file should have been preserved
> during the upgrade.

Policy doesn't mandate "if a file was touched by the local admin,
leave it alone completely". It does mandate that local changes to the
file must be preserved. Automatic changes are still allowed.

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

[Debian Bug Importer (debzilla)]

Message-Id: <email address hidden>
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 03:47:09 -0400
From: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
To: <email address hidden>
Subject: Bug#301906: fixed in exim4 4.50-5

Source: exim4
Source-Version: 4.50-5

We believe that the bug you reported is fixed in the latest version of
exim4, which is due to be installed in the Debian FTP archive:

exim4-base_4.50-5_i386.deb
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4-base_4.50-5_i386.deb
exim4-config_4.50-5_all.deb
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4-config_4.50-5_all.deb
exim4-daemon-heavy_4.50-5_i386.deb
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4-daemon-heavy_4.50-5_i386.deb
exim4-daemon-light_4.50-5_i386.deb
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4-daemon-light_4.50-5_i386.deb
exim4_4.50-5.diff.gz
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4_4.50-5.diff.gz
exim4_4.50-5.dsc
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4_4.50-5.dsc
exim4_4.50-5_all.deb
  to pool/main/e/exim4/exim4_4.50-5_all.deb
eximon4_4.50-5_i386.deb
  to pool/main/e/exim4/eximon4_4.50-5_i386.deb

A summary of the changes between this version and the previous one is
attached.

Thank you for reporting the bug, which will now be closed. If you
have further comments please address them to <email address hidden>,
and the maintainer will reopen the bug report if appropriate.

Debian distribution maintenance software
pp.
Marc Haber <email address hidden> (supplier of updated exim4 package)

(This message was generated automatically at their request; if you
believe that there is a problem with it please contact the archive
administrators by mailing <email address hidden>)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Format: 1.7
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 07:20:17 +0000
Source: exim4
Binary: eximon4 exim4-daemon-custom exim4-daemon-heavy exim4-base exim4 exim4-daemon-light exim4-config
Architecture: source i386 all
Version: 4.50-5
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Exim4 Maintainers <email address hidden>
Changed-By: Marc Haber <email address hidden>
Description:
 exim4 - metapackage to ease exim MTA (v4) installation
 exim4-base - support files for all exim MTA (v4) packages
 exim4-config - configuration for the exim MTA (v4)
 exim4-daemon-heavy - exim MTA (v4) daemon with extended features, including exiscan-ac
 exim4-daemon-light - lightweight exim MTA (v4) daemon
 eximon4 - monitor application for the exim MTA (v4) (X11 interface)
Closes: 286721 296492 299051 299732 299858 300967 301906 301940 302060 302215
Changes:
 exim4 (4.50-5) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * move exim4-config-simple and exim4-config-medium from the main
     source package to keep them from being released.
   * document the fact that the check done by update-exim4.conf does
     not detect all possible errors and fails with errors that are inside
     expanded items in the config file. Thanks to Marc Sherman.
     (mh) Closes: 286721
   * Add examples for cyrus_sasl to conf.d/auth/30_exim4-config_examples.
     Thanks to Juergen Kreileder. (mh) Closes: #299732
   * remove --dry-run from 10_daemon_close_fds.dpatch so that failures
     to patch cause failure. Thanks to Gergely Nagy, and apologies for
     blaming it on dpatch (se...