Comment 38 for bug 882274

Revision history for this message
Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) wrote : Re: [Bug 882274] Re: Community engagement is broken

On 01/11/11 14:08, Bazon wrote:
> At least for me, this kind of communication (including mainly the "won't
> fix" attitude) had one advantage: I learned relatively fast that I had
> to say "goodbye" to mainstream ubuntu. (I'm using now xubuntu + compiz
> in ambiance flavour.)

It may be unpopular but we absolutely believe that it's necessary for us
to decline to accept every feature, or fix every perceived bug, in order
to deliver a great product. We're not there yet, but the fact that we
decline to fix some bugs is not in itself a bad thing; it's a sign of a
willingness to prioritise and choose, both of which are necessary but
not sufficient for success. It would be great if you would acknowledge
that, but if you can't, it doesn't change the way we think about what we
need to do.

It's wonderful that the breadth of Ubuntu spans much more than the
default Ubuntu with Unity, and that there's an easy option on the Ubuntu
core which meets your needs. I hope you appreciate that it takes time
and effort and money from the core of Ubuntu in order to support Xubuntu
too; so I hope you're really saying "thank you for supporting the
Xubuntu team". Xubuntu is an official remix and every bit as mainstream
as the default Ubuntu.

> Speaking of usability tests:
> I see at least two problems regarding the community and communication within the usability tests:
> 1. No ubuntu user was included. Only 13 Windows users, 1 Mac user and 1 user who uses both Windows and MacOSX.
> --> Unity is in fact not developed for the ubuntu community.

Ubuntu aims to deliver "Linux for Human Beings". On that basis, the
selection of test subjects is entirely appropriate. We're unusual as a
community in that we strive to deliver something that goes beyond
scratching our own itch, although in fact we do a lot of that too, we
just celebrate delivering things which are widely useful more than
things which are only useful for ourselves. If you want something that
only suits you, I'm sure you can find it elsewhere, or that you can
produce that from the packages in the Ubuntu archive, and we'd be very
happy for you to do that.

We have about 20 million users today. We want 200 million users by 2014.
The extra 180 million users are not in the Ubuntu community today, so
you can in a sense say that it's true - Unity was not developed for the
Ubuntu community of today, it was developed with love for the Ubuntu
community of the future. You're invited to that community, but not
required to join it.

> 2. Between the usability tests, progress was announced although there was no change of the interface regarding those issues, only the aims were set in a way much easier to achieve.
> --> issues were not solved, but talked away.
> (I wrote about this in detail there: )

Nonsense. Anybody who doubts my position, please read the relevant
documents and draw your own conclusions. I know of no established and
trusted leaders in the Ubuntu community who would support your conclusions.

> One might say now: Who cares about the old ubuntu community? Canonical is obviously trying to get a new one!

Nonsense, again. Ubuntu has *always* aimed for usability, always gone
the extra mile to make it easy to install and easy to embrace and easy
to share Linux. I don't think it's cool to be too cool for that mission,
but if you are in fact too cool for that mission, please don't denigrate
the work of those of us who care about it. It's not just Canonical that
care about this. It's all the people who translate Ubuntu into 80
languages, or promote it in every city and county, or help answer
questions at You're completely mistaken if you think this
is a Canonical push; we're happy to lead and to drive but we are also
confident this is what Ubuntu has ALWAYS been about.

Unity was a big change, and change is upsetting, and I am sorry for the
upset. But the future is coming, nobody else was going to deliver a free
software option for that future, so we decided to try ourselves. You
don't have to come along, but denigrating the effort says more about you
than it says about the tens of thousands of people who don't work for
Canonical but still put time and effort into 11.10. What did you do for
the release?

> And speaking of (minimize window by clicking on the launcher):
> I'm not really pleased with the given explanations yet. What's the problem in adding ONE more option in CCSM which seems to have hundreds of settings (which I enjoy very much) yet? This seems to be not consequent.

We did not add those options, if it were up to me, they would not be
there at all.

> Also, there are many GUI elements in ubuntu which toggle show/hide by click without changing appearance (@#20), e.g. most indicators.

Which indicators are you referring to?