Comment 127 for bug 391628

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:24 PM, Christopher M. Penalver
<email address hidden> wrote:

Chris,

I appreciate your polite response, but I am still disappointed.

> Firstly, in my initial post to you
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/391628/comments/83
> requesting for you to file a new report, I did not post the rationale
> for this, so I beg your pardon. As well, I would not mark this a
> duplicate unless a developer notes this is so, or it is clear from a
> development perspective. Since you did not file a new report, this is
> undeterminable.

This bug is a specific, very unusual behavior, experienced only by
users using a specific driver, taking a specific action. It's clearly
the same bug. There's no reason to think otherwise. You seem to be
advocating a "presumed different until proven duplicate" policy, which
doesn't make sense, if for no other reason than the excessive bug
reports and associated triage workload it would generate.

>>"In the meantime, Wong Yong Jie posted a valid addition to this bug
> report with appropriate kernel debug info and traces, but you deleted it
> and all of his attachments. You also removed Luke Plant's report and
> attachments and told him to re-report the bug. And after deleting these
> logs, you marked this bug as "needs-kernel-logs", and you marked it
> "Incomplete" in spite of it clearly being confirmed by multiple users."
>
> This would be correlation, not causation.

But let's look at the end result: logs were deleted and then
requested, and the bug was confirmed by multiple users and then marked
Incomplete. This makes no sense.

> The last thing I would want is to have you do a considerable amount of
> work, to find that this is in fact a duplicate.

Then why are you asking me to do so when it is clearly the same bug?

>>"I feel like you are asking us to jump through too many hoops when we
> have already done that. Debian doesn't treat bug reporters this way,
> with such bureaucracy."
>
> The last thing I would want is to create and sustain a bureaucracy. If
> this is what Ubuntu was about, I certainly would not have installed
> Ubuntu, let alone triage the bug reports regarding it.

I believe you are sincere, but look at what you just said:

> I'm more than happy, and eagerly await the opportunity to triage both of
> your reports, in line with the policies set out by the Ubuntu Kernel
> Team, Ubuntu Bug Control, and Ubuntu Bug Squad.

If that's not bureaucracy, what is? You sound so polite, but you
sound like someone at a government agency who is "glad" to solve a
citizen's problem as soon as the citizen fills out the "necessary"
paperwork, in spite of the fact that the problem is self-evident, and
the only thing preventing further action is the lack of paperwork.

> If you have further questions, please do not post further to this
> report, but contact me directly, post to the appropriate forum, and file
> a new report.

My questions are:

1. Why was useful information deleted from this bug report after
multiple users provided it?
2. Why was the bug marked Incomplete instead of Confirmed, given that
multiple users have confirmed the same behavior in the same
circumstances?

I--and I'm guessing other users who have posted on this report--want
to know why the information they provided was thrown away instead of
being used to fix this bug. And I want to know why the bug was given
a status--Incomplete--which will result in the bug automatically being
closed if no further action is taken, despite the bug being a
confirmed problem. That results in the bug disappearing from search
results or being presumed fixed when that is not the case. And that
results in more duplicate reports and a longer wait for a fix.

These questions are relevant to this bug report and to those of us who
suffer from this problem.

Bottom line: I'd rather you leave the bug report alone than delete
useful debugging info and give the bug a status which will
automatically dismiss the bug report even if no one fixes it.
Committees can make whatever policies they want, but this bug is real
and confirmed, and we who have posted here are clearly experiencing
the very same bug.