AlpsPS/2 ALPS GlidePoint gets stuck and is generally unresponsive.

Bug #372090 reported by merc on 2009-05-05
26
This bug affects 4 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
linux (Ubuntu)
Low
Unassigned

Bug Description

The problem is with Elantech touchpads in HP Pavillon DV2000 Entertainment PC. The more elaborate description of the bug by the bug reporter in comment #13 is as follows--

However, this is exactly what happens: ONLY AFTER leaving it still for a couple of seconds, there is a 200m or 400ms (milliseconds) delay between you moving your finger and the pointer coming to life. If after that pause you keep on moving the mouse, it goes *perfectly* well. If you stop for a little bit, and try to move it again, it will be stuck again -- your finger can move up to about a centimetre, or more, before the pointer finally moves.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, when there is a "cursor is not moving" problem, events don't show up even in evtest log as the Bug reporter finds out. So it is a kernel issue.

There is some information about this bug here:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7209519&posted=1#post7209519

affects: ubuntu → xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu)
merc (merc) wrote :

Hi,

I just wanted to add that I downgraded to Ubuntu 8.10 (I can't deal with computer freezes... I don't have a test machine, sorry :( ).

Now... the problem is _there_ as well! But, it's much more subtle. I think it's subtle enough to make people slightly hate their touchpad and Ubuntu in general, but it's not clear enough (not in 8.10) to go "Ah, that's what's happening!".

In 8.10 as well, there is a small delay from when the touchpad has input to when the driver actually does something about it. I must say the problem is WAY less in 8.10 than 9.04, but I _guarantee_ it's there. If you know it's there, you suddenly realise why you hate the touchpad and you see clearly the delay. In 9.04, the problem is multiplied by 5x (give or take), and that's why people noticed.

I am happy to provide whatever info you might need.

Merc.

merc (merc) wrote :

Hi,

For your info:

merc@merc-laptop:~$ lshal | grep -A 5 input.touchpad | grep product
  info.product = 'AlpsPS/2 ALPS GlidePoint' (string)
merc@merc-laptop:~$

This bug seems to be the same as:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/379517

Merc.

merc (merc) wrote :

Hi,

I offer a $50 bounty to the person who provide a 100% effective patch to get this 100% fixed.

Merc.

Haiko von Holten (hholten) wrote :

I solved the problem by downgrading xserver-xorg-input-synaptics to the previous version via synaptic (Package-Menu->Force version). I had to unmark the package after the downgrade to prevent from being immediately upgraded again.
To really lock the version of the package I used "Apt-Pinning".

I added the following lines to /etc/apt/preferences:

Package: xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
Pin: version 0.99.3-2ubuntu4
Pin-Priority: 1000

Haiko von Holten (hholten) wrote :

I should add: I use the X-SWAT PPA due to the intel driver problems in Jaunty.

merc (merc) wrote :

Hi,

I am happy to send you the $50 if this works!
Right now I have 8.10 and version 0.15.2-0ubuntu7. If I click on Package, the option "Lock version" is disabled.

I looked around for a solution, but I am not sure why I can't do it. Any hints on how to downgrade to 0.99.3-2ubuntu4 ?

Also, what is X-SWAP PPA? :D

Thanks a billion,

Merc.

merc (merc) wrote :

Hi,

Is anybody looking at this bug?
If so, is there anything I could do to help?

I can confirm the problem with Intrepid (although it's much milder), and confirm that I am in the process of getting a new laptop just for this issue.

Bye,

Merc.

merc (merc) wrote :

Hi,

Other than offering a bounty, is there _anything_ I can do to help solve this probem which turns a lot of laptops into something barely usable...?

(Yes, not being able to move your mouse properly 24/7 will make it unusable)

Merc.

Bryce Harrington (bryce) on 2009-09-02
tags: added: jaunty
Gursimran singh (simar) wrote :

Hi merc,

Thanks for reporting bug and helping us to make ubuntu, even better. Unfortunately, the information you liked with the bug report is not sufficient for us to probe into the bug. For developers to work on this bug we want to have additional information from you, regarding the bug.

Is the bug still present in latest maverick..

Changed in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu):
status: New → Incomplete
importance: Undecided → Low
merc (merc) wrote :

Alright, this bug is 1.5 years old, but I am still keen on getting it fixed.
I can confirm that with Windows the touchpad works 100% fine. With Linux, it's absolutely awful.

I am installing Maverick right now, to see if it still does it -- I doubt it will be fixed, but you never know.

I am happy to ship this laptop anywhere to a developer, so that they can actually use it and see it. In the meantime, as soon as Maverick is installed, *what* extra info would you like?

Merc.

Gursimran singh (simar) wrote :

@mrec

Sorry for the delay in handeling the bug. Actually we are always short for volunteers here. I have seen that the bug report has not been prperly triaged at all.

As soon as you will install maverick, (try fresh install) using live USB, please report back and then we can start the triaging process.

merc (merc) wrote :

No worries about the delay.

I have just finished the update. I am just about to complete a fresh installation, will let you know soon.

I am afraid this bug affects very few people, and it's sort of subtle. But I am totally happy to send my laptop to a developer to get it tested properly... I think that's the only way!

Merc.

merc (merc) wrote :

Hi,

OK, here I am.
The bug is still there. It's _annoyingly_ subtle -- I can see how a lot of developers wouldn't eve notice by using the touchpad just for a few seconds.
The touchpad "works".

However, this is exactly what happens: ONLY AFTER leaving it still for a couple of seconds, there is a 200m or 400ms (milliseconds) delay between you moving your finger and the pointer coming to life. If after that pause you keep on moving the mouse, it goes *perfectly* well. If you stop for a little bit, and try to move it again, it will be stuck again -- your finger can move up to about a centimetre, or more, before the pointer finally moves.

The usability result of this are disastrous. You know something is wrong, you tend to blame the surface of the touchpad, you clean it, and after a while it stresses the hell out of you.

Please let me know what info I could provide to see if this can be fixed. I am pretty good with Linux. I have already:

 * Checked the settings under Mouse -> Touchpad. Disable touch while typing doesn't seem to make a difference. Disabling or enabling edge scrolling doesn't make a difference either.

I have been travelling with this laptop with an external mouse for 1 year and a half. I will decommission it in 6 months. When I do, I will have to install Windows on it again, as I can't put anybody through this touchpad...

Bye,

Merc.

merc (merc) on 2010-11-03
description: updated
Gursimran singh (simar) wrote :

You mean that there is a delay and so some events gets lost(that are in 300 to 400ms time interval) after you stop scrolling and start again... right!!

Strange bug!!
I hope that you laptop is not pretty old before starting out. That because of low configuration it is not able to pic up fast enough cursor movements. Please ensure that. Besides I will like to know you laptop model and possibly you touchpad model also.

Also confirm the bug yourself by running
$xev

and confirming that the events there gets stuck after you leave off you finger from the touchpad. Upload the log to launchpad in an attachment.

For any help regarding debugging yourself .. see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingTouchpadDetection
and ask if you need any help regarding that.

 I think we can nail where the bug exactly is. Your proper feedback will really matter here..

merc (merc) wrote :
Download full text (3.4 KiB)

Hi,

The laptop is not old. It's a Satelile, it's a monster machine as far as specs. It cannot be a speed issue.
The device is:

I: Bus=0011 Vendor=0002 Product=0008 Version=7321
N: Name="AlpsPS/2 ALPS GlidePoint"
P: Phys=isa0060/serio4/input0
S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/i8042/serio4/input/input7
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=mouse2 event7
B: EV=b
B: KEY=420 0 70000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
B: ABS=1000003

xinput is:

Device 'AlpsPS/2 ALPS GlidePoint':
 Device Enabled (154): 1
 Coordinate Transformation Matrix (156): 1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000
 Device Accel Profile (273): 0
 Device Accel Constant Deceleration (274): 1.000000
 Device Accel Adaptive Deceleration (275): 1.000000
 Device Accel Velocity Scaling (276): 10.000000
 Synaptics Edges (290): 153, 870, 115, 652
 Synaptics Finger (291): 12, 14, 127
 Synaptics Tap Time (292): 180
 Synaptics Tap Move (293): 56
 Synaptics Tap Durations (294): 180, 180, 100
 Synaptics Tap FastTap (295): 0
 Synaptics Middle Button Timeout (296): 75
 Synaptics Two-Finger Pressure (297): 139
 Synaptics Two-Finger Width (298): 7
 Synaptics Scrolling Distance (299): 25, 25
 Synaptics Edge Scrolling (300): 1, 0, 0
 Synaptics Two-Finger Scrolling (301): 0, 0
 Synaptics Move Speed (302): 0.400000, 0.700000, 0.039124, 40.000000
 Synaptics Edge Motion Pressure (303): 14, 79
 Synaptics Edge Motion Speed (304): 1, 102
 Synaptics Edge Motion Always (305): 0
 Synaptics Button Scrolling (306): 1, 1
 Synaptics Button Scrolling Repeat (307): 1, 1
 Synaptics Button Scrolling Time (308): 100
 Synaptics Off (309): 0
 Synaptics Guestmouse Off (310): 0
 Synaptics Locked Drags (311): 0
 Synaptics Locked Drags Timeout (312): 5000
 Synaptics Tap Action (313): 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
 Synaptics Click Action (314): 1, 1, 1
 Synaptics Circular Scrolling (315): 0
 Synaptics Circular Scrolling Distance (316): 0.100000
 Synaptics Circular Scrolling Trigger (317): 0
 Synaptics Circular Pad (318): 0
 Synaptics Palm Detection (319): 0
 Synaptics Palm Dimensions (320): 10, 99
 Synaptics Coasting Speed (321): 0.000000
 Synaptics Pressure Motion (322): 14, 79
 Synaptics Pressure Motion Factor (323): 1.000000, 1.000000
 Synaptics Grab Event Device (324): 1
 Synaptics Gestures (325): 1
 Synaptics Capabilities (326): 1, 1, 1, 0, 0
 Synaptics Pad Resolution (327): 1, 1
 Synaptics Area (328): 0, 0, 0, 0
 Synaptics Jumpy Cursor Threshold (329): 0

xmodmap:

There are 12 pointer buttons defined.

    Physical Button
     Button Code
        1 1
        2 2
        3 3
        4 4
        5 5
        6 6
        7 7
        8 8
        9 9
       10 10
       11 11
       12 12

Now, the bad news.

Basically, when there is a "cursor is not moving" problem, events don't show up _at all_. Just to clarify: I can tap, *violently* against the touchpad, and nothing scrolls up. No events are logged... AS LONG AS the touch -- even though is quite strong -- is very brief. I can drag my fingertip as far as half way though the touchpad, and see absolutely no e...

Read more...

merc (merc) wrote :

Hi,

There is a duplicate to this bug:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/379517

He actually explains it better than me. If I hadn't find this, I would have thought I had a hardware issue.

Please note that I am totally happy to keep providing info (or even the laptop) so that the problem can be fixed. However, I will eventually decommission this laptop in a few months (largely due to the touchpad issue, this machine is still a monster).

HP Pavillon DV2000 Entertainment PC -- I might have missed this in the original report.

Merc.

I think your feeling is correct and not specific to the touchpad. I'm
seeing the same operation from a USB mouse. General operation could be
describe as "grabby". Very Annoying.

> I have the slight feeling this might possibly be a kernel issue. I
> vaguely remember reading about kernel issues with this very device...
> but quite frankly I can't remember.

This makes it even more of a bugger to fix it...
Where do we start? Debugging it, I mean...

I am totally happy to do *anything* is needed to get this fixed.

...with a mouse? Really? Wow... that's strange. What do we debug then? The USB port? Or...?

I really have no idea...

Gursimran singh (simar) wrote :

@merc

A piece of advice for future. Please upload all logs in attachments using attachments. Example -:
cat /proc/bus/input/devices >devices.log and the upload this in a attachment using Add Attachment below the Add comment.

summary: - Touchpad gets stuck and is generally unresponsive
+ AlpsPS/2 ALPS GlidePoint gets stuck and is generally unresponsive.
merc (merc) wrote :

Hi,

I could only find one attachment box, and no way to attach multiple files. I am likely to be blind though -- sorry about that!
What's the next step for this bug, guys?

Merc.

Gursimran singh (simar) wrote :

@Jim

You are advised to file a different bug in relevant package, according to the new bug policy of kernel team. Although your issue is very different from this one, even similar issues are held separately by the kernel team from now on.

Gursimran singh (simar) wrote :

@merc

I was about to tell you to try that uninstalling xserver-xorg-input-synaptics. But as I can read in the other bug report, you tried that. But I would recommend you to do that once again and see what happens.

Gursimran singh (simar) wrote :

The bug reporter reports of loss of events in evtest output.

affects: xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) → linux (Ubuntu)
Changed in linux (Ubuntu):
status: Incomplete → Confirmed
description: updated
Gursimran singh (simar) wrote :

@merc

Your work is that, you should try alternative mainline kernels here http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/daily/ . Install these new kernels as deb packages and try them rebooting with each. If you can find some kernel that works for you, more than half of work is done.

merc (merc) wrote :

@Gursimran singh Mohar -- I am getting this:

$ sudo dpkg -r xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
[sudo] password for merc:
dpkg: dependency problems prevent removal of xserver-xorg-input-synaptics:
 xserver-xorg-input-all depends on xserver-xorg-input-synaptics.
dpkg: error processing xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (--remove):
 dependency problems - not removing
Errors were encountered while processing:
 xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
merc@merc-laptop:/mnt/disk/home/merc$

Removing xserver-xorg-input-all seems a little strange... what shall I do?

Merc.

merc (merc) wrote :

Hi,

About trying different kernels: how do I do it? I always freak, installing things with dpkg. Is there a way to so things with synaptics, adding the PPA?

I guess the question is: what's the easiest. least dangerous way to try these kernels?

Thanks...

Merc.

Gursimran singh (simar) wrote :

About removing the package (easiest way),
Go to Synaptics package manager, find the package xserver-xorg-input-synaptics and remove it there.

Gursimran singh (simar) wrote :

About trying kernels

In different folders there are different kernels like this one http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/daily/2010-10-31-maverick/linux-image-2.6.36-999-generic_2.6.36-999.201010311115_i386.deb

See the file name linux-image-2.6.36-999-generic_2.6.36-999.201010311115_i386.deb for i386 architecture, if you have ubuntu 32bit. Just install these by double clicking and reboot.

merc (merc) wrote :

Hi,

I tried several kernels, and I can sadly confirm that the bug is still there. Events are not logged _at all_.

Is there anything else I can do to try and debug this?

Merc,

This bug was filed against a series that is no longer supported and so is being marked as Won't Fix. If this issue still exists in a supported series, please file a new bug.

This change has been made by an automated script, maintained by the Ubuntu Kernel Team.

Changed in linux (Ubuntu):
status: Confirmed → Won't Fix
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