Comment 786 for bug 532633

Ok, I was in the first two or five rounds of this discussion and I
have to say that at this point any further discussion is moot.

The real bug was that Mark and others did not consider the possibility
at people would hate the changed in the UI. And by hate, I mean,
running screaming in the street effigy burning, storm the Bastille,
throw the tea in the harbor, *HATE* the UI. I'm pretty sure they
expected some people to dislike it, but not hate it.

When they realized they had a real problem they fixed it. All you have
to do it to go to appearance in the preferences menu and select the
old human theme and you get all the goodness of 10.4 with a nice
livable theme. They didn't do that at first, no, they gave us set of
instructions that required you to start a command line program and
directly edit a control string. Getting the string wrong could mean
losing the buttons on your windows. It was a pain but it worked. Now,
you just have to click through a couple of menus and click on the old
theme and you are done. What they finally did is what they should have
done in the first case, they put in their new ideas for a theme and
made it easy for people like you and I to keep our old theme. It would
have been nice if they made that an option at installation time, but
they really do want to make Ubuntu look that way.

Now, let me make a comment to all the folks who left Ubuntu and are
not coming back and all the people who are threatening to leave if
this doesn't get fixed.

                                          Nobody at Ubuntu gives a
*SHIT* what you do.

Mark is a very smart person. He wants to make Ubuntu into a true
commpetitor with Windows. He wants to make a few billion dollars doing
it. He has already vacationed on the IIS, maybe he want to build his
own orbital resort. It would be a perfectly logical next thing if he
had the money, who knows. Maybe he just likes being the rich. I know I
like having more money than I need. A fat wallet feels a lot like...
*FREEDOM*.

So why doesn't he care if you leave? Well, are you a customer of his?
If customers leave in large numbers then a company has something to
worry about. But, if you are not a customer then why would the company
care about anything you do? Mark is trying to monetize Ubuntu. To do
that he has given it a look that appeals to a demographic who spend a
shit load of money buying digital goods. Marks last big money maker
was another company that sold a digital good. Those kinds of companies
can make a butt load of money. That demographic also is very
influenced by how "cool" something looks. (BTW, "cool" is pronounced
something like "Khol" where you kind of swallow the "kwo" sound.
Pronouncing it correctly is very important.) So now Ubuntu looks right
to that demographic. He has added the ability to purchase music and to
use all your existing mp3s with Ubuntu. (Did you notice the codexs
included in 10.4?) And, he has provided a way to store your digital
goods online, UbuntuOne is pretty nice and I expect it will become
*awsome* and the music store hidden away in RhythmBox is all most to
good to be true. Even though I am almost 60 I decided to move to 10.4
despite because of those two new features.

With the move to get Ubuntu into instant on dual boot computers
coupled with the UbuntuOne and the music store people will not have to
wait for Windows to boot to do all the most popular things people do
with laptops and netbooks. The result will be lots of money going to
Ubuntu for operating system software, for music, and maybe for some
online services as well.

The people who buy software, and music, and online services from
Ubuntu are it's customers. If you don't do any of those things then
you are not a customer. Guess what, if you are not a customer then no
company has any reason to care if you stop using the free portion of
their product. They don't care if you switch to Fedora or to Debian.

While I do not like the effect that these changes have had on me, I
completely understand what Mark is doing and I think he is going after
the right demographic. There are damned few people like me who are
ever going to be his customers. Giving me a painless way to get back
to the UI I like while still giving me the chance to use Ubuntu and
maybe to become a customer is a reasonable thing for them to do. And,
they have done it.

Bob Pendleton

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 6:23 AM, Ubuntu-Me <email address hidden> wrote:
> I think it is important to consider not that I an others have gone back
> to Karmic Ubuntu,  or that we left initially due to the User Interface
> issues pertaining to Lucid's (MacBuntu) feel, but rather the bigger
> picture.   The loss of trust in Canonical's ability to maintain
> stability over time.
>
> As a long time Ubuntu fan, it is a heartbreak to find myself running
> away from 'MacBuntu"  and once again due to stability issues.  While
> adding options to software is fine.  Forcing them upon users will only
> serve to reduce membership.
>
> Rather then deal with Mark's mistakes directly, and I think I speak for
> many,  I can only say one thing.
>
>                                     (    DEBIAN !    )
>
> After trying Debian I became convinced that it was far better for me.
> I first ran Debian from a Virtual box.  Its like Ubuntu and in fact
> Ubuntu has its roots there.   One difference is Mark is not there, and
> the buttons are where they should always be.
>
> MacBuntu is not for me, and I know that others might also be reading
> these posts.  I saw many thngs wrong with Ubuntu 10.04.  Speed problems
> and GUI button placement.  Ubuntu was a nice ride while it lasted, and
> for that I am greatful.  After running Debian for the first time I was
> sold in almost no time flat.
>
> They pride themselves on stability and SPEED !   I say this to all
> Ubuntu fans like myself.   If you don't like Mark's button ideas give
> Debian a test run.  Perhaps like I did.  In a VirtualBox.   Impressive !
> Let Ubuntu learn the Microsoft lesson.  Seems like many companies seem
> to need to learn from mistakes these days.  Switching the buttons is a
> big mistake.  It got me looking in other directions, and while I have
> run Red Hat, and Suse,  I never tried Debian.   Until my buttons changed
> to the left that is.
>
> If Ubuntu goes to the left and you don't like it try Debian.  You will
> be impressed and I am no longer looking back.
>
> So long Ubuntu !  If at first you don't succeed try try again....
>
> 8-P
>
> --
> [Master] Window Control buttons: position/order/alignment
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/532633
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of a duplicate bug.
>
> Status in “light-themes” package in Ubuntu: Won't Fix
> Status in “metacity” package in Ubuntu: Invalid
>
> Bug description:
> === Master Bug ===
> (As per the design team's request)
> All bugs concerning the window controls are being duped to this master bug.
> All the decisions regarding the position/order/alignment will be dealt as a one.
>
> === Desire ===
> "Please centre the window title like in previous Human theme, and also re-order the window controls in classic order, positioned on the right side (menu - title - minimize, maximize close)."
>
> ==== Workaround ====
> 1. Only new themes, such as Ambiance and Radiance will have buttons on the left by default. You can continue using old themes, such as Human, in Lucid and those themes will continue to have buttons on the right side (according to http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/577 ). It is even possible to switch to Human theme and then 'Customize' it to use all the elements from Radiance theme, but the button layout will stay on the right.
>
> 2. To revert to old layout, run in a terminal:
> $ gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/button_layout --type string "menu:minimize,maximize,close"
>
> ==== Return to defaults ====
> If you would like to return to the system/theme default then run:
> $ gconftool-2 --unset /apps/metacity/general/button_layout
>
> ==== Responses ====
> Canonical Design Team Leader (Ivanka Majic) - 2010-03-10 and 2010-03-17
> http://www.ivankamajic.com/?p=281 ("Those pesky buttons")
> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/03/17/s03e03-behind-the-screen/ (30-minute interview starting at 39:10)
>
> Ubuntu SABDFL (Mark Shuttleworth) replies on this bug report - 2010-03-15 onwards
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/110
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/167
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/179
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/202 to 204
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/218
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/248
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/272
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/388
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/410
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/426 to 427
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/469
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/503
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/564 ("Final decree"; close-min-max ordering)
>
> Canonical Ubuntu Community Leader (Jono Bacon) response - 2010-03-24
> http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/5683123 (6 minutes starting at 26:24)
>
> === Code of Conduct ===
> To maintain a respectful atmosphere, while commenting please follow the code of conduct - http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ .
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633/+subscribe
>

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------
+ Bob Pendleton: writer and programmer
+ email: <email address hidden>
+ web: www.TheGrumpyProgrammer.com