Ubuntu

Enable default Evolution signature as "Sent from Ubuntu"

Reported by Rick Spencer on 2010-08-09
134
This bug affects 17 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
evolution (Ubuntu)
Medium
Sebastien Bacher

Bug Description

Evolution should offer the choice of a signature such as "Sent from Ubuntu.", or similar.

--------------
The mirror is bug #642839, which requests tweaking/removal of the implemented signature, it was fixed on 2010-09-20.
The signature is added to list of "off-the-shelf" signatures,

But the signature is NOT ADDED TO EMAILS unless the user selects it in their account preferences.

For removal instructions on an individual machine, or account that was installed between 2010-08-28 and 2010-09-20, see:
  http://help.ubuntu.com/community/DisableUbuntuEmailSignature

*****
This bug report is regarding a default option of having a signature when none is present. Which was fixed and closed.
If you do not like this change, please comment with relevant arguments on bug #642839, which requests the removal/reversion of the default signature.
*****

NOTE: This change has been reverted by bug 642839.

Related branches

Changed in evolution (Ubuntu):
assignee: nobody → Sebastien Bacher (seb128)
importance: Undecided → Medium
milestone: none → ubuntu-10.10-beta
Sebastien Bacher (seb128) wrote :

Thanks, I guess somebody will come with a suggestion for the string to use there? "Sent from a Ubuntu User" seems a bit weird. Do we know what other systems use? "Sent from Ubuntu" would work I guess?

Launchpad Janitor (janitor) wrote :

This bug was fixed in the package evolution - 2.30.2-1ubuntu2

---------------
evolution (2.30.2-1ubuntu2) maverick; urgency=low

  * debian/evolution-mail.desktop,
    debian/evolution-mail.desktop.in,
    debian/patches/61_translate_menu_entry.patch:
    - use that change again since quite some users search their email client
      in the internet category and not the office one
  * debian/patches/01_ubuntu_signature.patch,
    debian/signature.py:
    - define an Ubuntu signature which writes "Sent from Ubuntu", the signature
      is in the list but not default yet for new accounts, that should change
      before the end of the cycle
      (lp: #615300)
 -- Sebastien Bacher <email address hidden> Fri, 27 Aug 2010 00:07:56 +0200

Changed in evolution (Ubuntu):
status: New → Fix Released

Please, don't activate this default signature by default... Please...

s/default signature/signature/

There is absolutely no reason for this. This is not classy. It actually feels pompous and rude.

I beg the person with this idea to please reconsider. Please present the purpose of this inclusion. Just because Apple started this trend does not mean it is a smart thing to copy.

--
Sent from a Firefox user using Maverick using Linux 2.6.35-19-generic Ubuntu kernel on an HP Pavilion Pentium D 3.00 Ghz processor.

Vidnel (vidnel) wrote :

This is not a bug. Having no default signature is ideal. The "Sent from my _______" email signatures are obnoxious and unprofessional. If I had wanted to advertise I would have done so long ago, it is completely inappropriate to make it default.

Maia Everett (sikon) wrote :

Please do not do this. We're not Microsoft. I've always thought that having "posted with $APPLICATION" signatures was obnoxious, in-your-face, and distracting from the actual content of the mail message.

I agree: This is completely useless. It makes at least some kind of sense on devices like the iPhone - because "Sent from my iPhone" is code for "Sorry for the terrible spelling".

But using this to "promote" Ubuntu is not cool at all - it reminds me of the horrible ads that all the webmail providers used to append to eMails.

For heaven's sake: Do _not_ do this.

Conscious User (conscioususer) wrote :

I would like to see more details on the rationale behind this.

Are there any studies showing that users like and keep this kind of thing even after being aware that they can turn it off?

Or this is simply advertisement trying to slip into something that "most users don't care enough to change"?

If it's the latter, I think Ubuntu should be above this kind of sneaky strategy.

100% useless to us users. The best OS is an OS you don't see and hear!

Paul Sladen (sladen) wrote :

Of course, were this be to automatically added, it would need to be context-specific and detect whether evolution was installed on an Ubuntu, Kubuntu, or Xubuntu machine based on the information in /etc...

Chan, JP. (rewarp) wrote :

This is absolutely unnecessary, and will probably not have any effect other than to be ignored. Furthermore, this is not a bug. Signatures should be activated by the user and not by default.

Paul Sladen (sladen) on 2010-09-19
description: updated
summary: - Evolution should have a default signature enabled
+ Set and/or enable default Evolution signature as "Sent from Ubuntu"

A lot of terrible ideas come out of the Ubuntu camp, but this is one of the worst.

Aethralis (aethralis) wrote :

Please, stop. This is idiocy at its worst.

Aethralis (aethralis) wrote :

Sorry for the previous and rude comment. I'm not usually resorting to such kind of language but this really shocked me. Ubuntu is accused of copying Apple too much as it is but this is bringing it too far. It feels sad.

I also disagree with the idea of adding this signature by default.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/642839

Paul Sladen (sladen) wrote :

Rafal: I've set that as a duplicate of this bug for the moment, to save splitting the conversation.

Please don't make this behavior default. PLEASE.

Gavin Chappell (g-a-c) wrote :

Sorry, no, I think this is a terrible idea.

"Sent from my iPhone" as above at least has some use in that it's a sort-of implied apology for an otherwise rudely short, misspelt, jumble of thoughts masquerading as a real email. However even this I find annoying and offensive when compared to a manually set up "This message is sent from a mobile device and therefore may be brief" (I know it's wordy, but you only type it once). "Sent from my iPhone" to me just reads "Look, I've got a gadget and I'm arrogant enough to not apologise for being rudely terse while I use it".

"Sent from Ubuntu" serves no purpose to the sender (they know they're using Ubuntu) nor the recipient of the email (FOSS was all about choice, I thought, including people's choice to use another OS) so I think it's a absolutely horrible idea. You may argue that people haven't switched to Ubuntu through lack of awareness, my counter argument to that would be that there's already enough ways of publicising Ubuntu, without "hijacking" new users PCs. Not least because if they installed it and found this behaviour by default, then if they're new to Ubuntu and don't know much about Ubuntu and Canonical, they may see this as Apple-style arrogance ("It's my computer, not theirs").

Julian Held (julian-held) wrote :

You are really trying to make me feel ashamed of my operating system, aren't you?

I dont like the wording but still I can see why we should do it and its the same reason why we now have the via ubuntu thing on twitter. Its advertising and its something we really need to work on. Maybe dont say "sent from ubuntu" say something a little bit less like you are copying what they did on the iphone or similarly hotmail (they do it a lot worse than the iphone because its an embedded advertisement about how much space you can get on hotmail).

I dont have any suggestions on what to say instead but IMO the wording should be changed or it should be removed because its just wrong at the moment.

Shane: This is bad advertising.

Go read an email from hotmail and notice the banners and adverts for msn-related things.

This is the sort of nasty business that is getting shoved down these poor people's throats.

The lifehacker article sums up very well the reason why this is something that will make us ashamed if it makes final. This is the small pebble.

Josh Brown (joshbrown) wrote :

Please only reply to this bug report if you have useful information to add, otherwise, post in the thread (+poll) on Ubuntu Forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1577753

Rodrigo Donado (frezeeer) wrote :

Don't add it by default.
Its more bits to be sent thought the Internet. And it really doesn't help at all.

John King (kingj-linuxmlsts) wrote :

I agree with Shane. I like to idea to some degree; but 'Sent from Ubuntu' isn't quite the right wording. In fact maybe, this just simply shouldn't be done by default. A lot of people here obviously see a problem with it.

Something I've noticed lately is that there's not really a central community advocacy front like SpreadFirefox. Yeah sure, there's 'SpreadUbuntu' (http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/), but it's not really well known, or on a standard domain like www.spreadubuntu.com (that URL currently redirects to www.ubuntu.com). Perhaps we need that. Then those that wish to participate in advocacy of Ubuntu could go there, and maybe then there'd be a blog or forum or something, and then things like 'Advertise Ubuntu in your e-mail sig!' are suggested for people to opt-in *on an individual basis*. One immediate benefit I see is that you might end up with many clever or at least unique sigs, likely to get more attention than a hundred bland 'Sent From Ubuntu's.

Community advocacy in Ubuntu needs much more work to be honest; I'd much rather see Canonical look more at what they could do to improve community advocacy than force it on users that may not want it.

Akshat Jain (akshatj) wrote :

It might be great for and opt-in!

Vincent Nys (vincentnys) wrote :

Tacky, useless clutter. If anyone actually wants this, they can still add a signature. Though you could manually remove it, too, default behaviour should be "you get what you write".

raindogx (raindogx-gmail) wrote :

Please don't make this the default. It is terribly tacky.

Max_E (maxxedout) wrote :

This is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. It's obnoxious, tasteless, and totally out of character. I'm completely disgusted that this wasn't rejected out of hand.

Jonathan Carter (jonathan) wrote :

How can Canonical do something this intrusive and rude without engaging with the community at large or getting some wider input first? I realise that Ubuntu is not a democracy and we don't vote on things, etc, but... seriously?

cicoandcico (cicoandcico) wrote :

This reminds me Microsoft Hotmail accouts default signature. Bad idea, guys.

Conscious User (conscioususer) wrote :

@Shane:

Twitter is a completely different context. Mentioning the source of your tweets is a well-known part of its interface and API.

I personally believe this signature can backfire badly. I don't think it's possible to come up with a wording that does not sound obnoxious.

Yeah I didnt say that I liked the wording I was just saying if we are going to do it we shouldnt say "sent from ubuntu" because thats just crap and makes us sound desperate for new users.

Jesse King (jesse-king) wrote :

This is not a bug. I do not want a default signature set in my email client.

Sam Barrow (sbarrow47) wrote :

I agree that this shouldn't be added. Smells like advertising.
If someone wants to announce that they use Ubuntu at the bottom of their email, they can add it in about 5 seconds.

L.Lopez (ldotlopez) wrote :

Worst. Idea. Ever.

You are going to be the MSN of the linux family.

I switched from Yahoo! to GMail as soon as I found out they don't append ads to your messages.

My phone drives me nuts by auto-filling the message body with "Sent from my (carrier) (phone)".

This bug report is epic fail, and any increase in mindshare we get is going to come at the cost of usability and respect for our users.

On 19 September 2010 17:59, Jonathan Carter <email address hidden> wrote:
> How can Canonical do something this intrusive and rude without engaging
> with the community at large or getting some wider input first? I realise
> that Ubuntu is not a democracy and we don't vote on things, etc, but...
> seriously?

I agree. This was a change that could and should have been immediately
recognised as obviously controversial and warranting discussion in the
Ubuntu community before it was implemented.

Ubuntu is still (at least as far as I'm concerned) based on community
consensus and transparent development for changes like this one. I
suggest that the change be reversed and if some people wish to push
it, they post their rationale for this change to the ubuntu-desktop
mailing list for discussion.

--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF

+1 to what everyone said.... THis is a huge changed and should have been decided at one of the boards. Can we appeal to the Technical Board on this? Or some other goverance party? If we can't then Ubuntu is no longer a community created distro

Phil Bull (philbull) wrote :

Please clarify whether this signature will be set as default for Maverick. We're well past documentation string freeze, but controversial changes like this have to be documented so that users can opt-out. If the default hasn't been changed yet, please consult the documentation and translation teams before you make it.

mlx (myxal-mxl) wrote :

I, for one, fail to see a problem here as long as it's simply a pre-set signature which is seen while typing an email and can be deleted both once as I'm typing a message AND deleted for good from the signatures. Just make sure the signature is below a double-dash so mail clients interpret it as such, and, to prevent accusations of copying aPple, do it like Opera's mail client does it:
====== signature starts here ===========

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
====== signature ends here ============
I think "Using Evolution on Ubuntu: http://ubuntu.com/" would work.
Notice, aside from the double-dash, a new mail message has 4 empty lines above the signature, so the signature is sufficiently offset from the body (and honestly, if you can't figure out you're done with a message when you're at "Best regards" or similar, you're not paying attention).

mlx (myxal-mxl) wrote :

Oh well, the four newlines got deleted from the post, but you get the idea...

Tacky. Please revert before release. Ubuntu should speak for itself.

This gets more ridiculous, I believe. The mailing list signature, without personalizing it, becomes :

--
Set and/or enable default Evolution signature as "Sent from Ubuntu"
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/615300
You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
of the bug.

This seems really long winded when you add the standard 4-5 lines people are already using. A one line message will become, what, about 10 lines now? And to reply to that message properly, requires you to delete at least 8 lines? Somehow, this is making less sense the more it gets looked at.

Stephan Adig (sadig) wrote :

@Matthew,

we are old and long standing Ubuntu contributors,
and Ubuntu was never ever a community driven distro.

What we are is a commercial driven distro, which is developed by the community.

Nothing more, nothing less. This is a good thing, as I as a community developer can have a say to a company which needs to earn money.

Peace,

\sh

William Grant (wgrant) wrote :

Making ridiculous, controversial changes without community consultation... after FinalFreeze. Nice.

@Phil Bull :
This is the default already in Maverick. We are in final freeze, so a bug has been filed requesting this be reverted. That is bug 642839.

William Grant (wgrant) wrote :

Ah, sorry, not actually after FinalFreeze. A while before, but hidden so that users wouldn't find it without reinstalling.

Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

Stephan - this isn't the place to have a debate about the nature of the Ubuntu project. I'm struggling to see whether what you have said is inconsistent with what I've said, but that's probably because I don't know what you mean by "driven". Lets take it off the bug if you want to discuss further.

Launchpad is really not a forum to discuss a controversial change in a closed bug. bug 642839 is open, I have marked it as triaged, and those supporting reverting this change should really at least mark that bug as affecting them. That bug is the proper bug to request a change to the defaults be reverted. A bug which has already been signed off as fixed is controversial at best when requesting the reversion.

Paul Sladen (sladen) on 2010-09-19
description: updated
Seung Soo, Ha (sungsuha) wrote :

I think that this should be an opt-in feature.

tracyanne (tracy-anne) wrote :

I think this is a great idea, I don't find it at all bothersome when I receive emails from iPhone users. I'd like to have emails go out that advertise the fact that i use Ubuntu. The more people that know about Ubuntu the better, in my opinion.

Vish (vish) on 2010-09-20
description: updated
summary: - Set and/or enable default Evolution signature as "Sent from Ubuntu"
+ Enable default Evolution signature as "Sent from Ubuntu"

Calling this "fix released", when in the eyes of many it has introduced a new problem which did not exist, is strange.

tracyanne (tracy-anne) wrote :

It's much ado about nothing, in reality.

Phil Bull (philbull) wrote :

I added instructions on disabling the signature to the wiki:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DisableUbuntuEmailSignature

I don't think we can justify including this in the official (installed) system docs now, we're too far past the freezes.

Benjamin Humphrey (humphreybc) wrote :

With over 1,400 votes on our poll that we started yesterday, 24.21% think it's a good idea and 75.79% think it's a bad idea, plus over 131 comments on the article, and the comments on this bug report.

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/sent-from-ubuntu-signature-to-be-added-to-all-mail-sent-from-evolution/

"Opinion" seems to be a suitable status for this bug. Someone came along and said "let there be an advertising signature".

Maia Everett (sikon) wrote :

The opinion status will still leave the bug closed. Furthermore, it has been historically used by certain people to mean "We consider this decision final, feel free to post your now-irrelevant opinions".

----
Sent from Ubuntu

Tamás Gál (galtom) wrote :

DON'T DO IT!

Paul Sladen (sladen) on 2010-09-20
description: updated

Please note that in bug #642839 the sig has been left in place, but is off by default.

Luis R. Rodriguez (mcgrof) wrote :

WTF no

rjcoupe (rjcoupe) wrote :

Ah, has Ubuntu reached that level of popularity whereupon an unpleasant level of narcissism cannot help but creep into the product itself? This change would be unnoticed by all other than those it would infuriate. Ubuntu is not Windows, OSX or iOS (thank god, in particular, for the last one). Copy the good elements from both, of course, but apparently some work is needed on separating the good from the bad.

If you force me onto Fedora, I will never forgive you.

rlgomes (rodneygomes) wrote :

As many comments above please don't make this the default behavior. I as many have expressed also feel it would be a very unprofessional feature to add.

j^ (j) wrote :

This is spam!
Will you add Send from Ubuntu to textareas in the browsers i.e. here on launchpad next?
There is absolutely no need for a default advertisement signature on emails.

Please, everyone, note that the bug has been resolved. This will not be the default behavior, and the fix has already been uploaded. See bug #642839. You can stop "me too"ing this bug.

This bug report is regarding a default option of having a signature when none is present. Which was fixed and closed.
If you do not like this change, please comment with relevant arguments on bug #642839, which requests the removal/reversion of the default signature.

further comments in both bug reports are unnecessary, the default signature has been removed and made optional.

Paul Sladen (sladen) on 2010-09-20
description: updated
tracyanne (tracy-anne) wrote :

Personally I'm quite disappointed this is not the default. I think it's a great idea, that subtly tells people about Ubuntu. It's easy, and always was, to turn off for those that like to hide their light under a bushell. For the rest of us, and I suspect most of the people who thought it a good idea, or thought it not worth getting their knickers in a twist over, either never heard of the poll or just didn't bother to vote. I actually didn't even know there was a poll until today.

This is once again a case of the vocal minority getting their way, simply because they can shout louder than anyone else.

It would be really good if there were instructions telling people about this nice feature, and how to turn it on, given that it is now not the default.

I've actually created my own version of the signature, so I can implement it right away.

vvlist (vvlist) wrote :

Please don't have this on by default.

Mario Lameiras (skzo) wrote :

spam.

Fingel (unholysponger) wrote :

Terrible idea. Moving to linux was supposed to be an escape from this kind of trashy behavior.

Vish (vish) on 2010-09-21
description: updated
Kayvee (vkkodali) wrote :

I think it is a really bad idea. I hope this does not get implemented.

tracyanne (tracy-anne) wrote :

quote::Terrible idea. Moving to linux was supposed to be an escape from this kind of trashy behavior.

What trashy behaviour? If this was Mac or Windows you wouldn't know about it until after you had been already sending emails with this feature enabled, and you would have a snowballs chance of turning it off.

This is Linux and Free Software, you are not only told about it before the fact (should it, hopefully, ever become a fact), but are able to discuss it on a forum that gives you a direct line to the developers.

In addition, because this is Linux and Free Software, even if it is developed, and implemented (in spite of a very vocal minority), it will be easily accessible, easily turned off or on, as you choose.

I fail to understand how flagging an idea (a really good one in this case) in an open and public manner, so that the users of the system can both know about the idea, and comment on it, can be considered trashy behaviour.

joopbraak (joopbraak) wrote :

@tracyanne
It's only much ado about nothing if you think that Canonical should not have higher moral standards then for instance Microsoft.

Also if you can't see that a majority is against this, you must be delusional.

It certainly is an affront to a majority of the people who are the most active (you know, the community), the people who are contributing the most to Ubuntu and whom Canonical is so dependent on.

joopbraak (joopbraak) wrote :

@tracyanne
It was not flagging a idea, it was already implemented.

Also, I find your reasoning about the difference between Ubuntu/Mac/Windows and how easy it would be to turn it off/on flawed.
That's not what the issue is here.
Following your argument Canonical could implement any change they want, no matter how bad, because it's Linux and Open Source?

C de-Avillez (hggdh2) wrote :

Marking as Opinion -- this change was reverted by bug 642839.

Changed in evolution (Ubuntu):
status: Fix Released → Opinion
description: updated
tracyanne (tracy-anne) wrote :

quote:: Also if you can't see that a majority is against this, you must be delusional. ::quote

I wondered when the Ad Hominem argument would be used. The use of such argument is the recourse of thaose who have no argument.

quote:: It certainly is an affront to a majority of the people who are the most active (you know, the community), the people who are contributing the most to Ubuntu and whom Canonical is so dependent on. ::quote

No what we are seeing is the most vocal. Those who either don't care or think this is a great idea, are largely silent.

quote:: It was not flagging a idea, it was already implemented. ::quote

What a pity, the vocal minority torpedoed it.

quote:: Also, I find your reasoning about the difference between Ubuntu/Mac/Windows and how easy it would be to turn it off/on flawed.

That's not what the issue is here.
 ::quote

But it is. If this wasn't Linux and free open source Software, the owners of the software, the licences.. Microsoft or Apple, would not have given you a choice. Would have made sure you could not remove it. It's because this is Linux and Free Software that even I, a normally quiet member of the community ( a member of the silent majority) gets to have a say on the matter. That is simply not possible in the context of Microsoft's Windows, or Apple's OSX.

quote::Following your argument Canonical could implement any change they want, no matter how bad, because it's Linux and Open Source?::quote

And because it's Linux and Free Open Source Software, the users have a strong voice. They can easily change to a different distribution (something I'm sure Canonical doesn't want), make loud and clear demands, which actually get listened to, as indeed the vocal majority is and has done here.

No sorry, your arguments are flawed they fail to see the whole picture, the best one you've put forward was the Ad Hominem.

tracyanne (tracy-anne) wrote :

Correction:

quote:: which actually get listened to, as indeed the vocal majority is and has done here.:quote

should read Vocal Minority.

I kindly ask that any and all discussion will be moved over to the forums or private emails. This is a bug tracker, not a discussion board.

www.ubuntuforums.org

^Here's a link if you guys forgot it :).

Thanks.

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