Installer Doesn't Install SMP Kernel in SMP Machines

[Gonzalo Porcel]

Hoary Preview Release.

The installer fails to detect that the computer is a dual processor machine and
thus the smp kernel should be used. Likely related to not using the smp kernel,
it does not report the total available RAM memory, 1.5 GB. Instead, it only
reports 1 GB as the total usable memory.

Attempts to install the smp kernel subsequently failed. Likely cause: Bad deb
package.

[Colin Watson (cjwatson)]

This is simply because the SMP kernel is not on the CD, so it cannot be
installed in the first stage of the install. Any fix for this would be an
enhancement, not critical.

[Gonzalo Porcel (porcel)]

(In reply to comment #1)
> This is simply because the SMP kernel is not on the CD, so it cannot be
> installed in the first stage of the install. Any fix for this would be an
> enhancement, not critical.

The problem is that the smp kernel cannot be installed after the base-install is
over. When I select the package through synaptic, it complains that it cannot be
installed and states that the likely cause is a bad package. If you want the
precise error message, I should be able to provide it once I get home.

Besides this, not including the smp kernel might be a mistake because many
machines today actually require it in order to take advantage of hyperthreading.
(PIVs, Xeons and the upcoming dual core chips). Additionally, it seems that this
is the likely reason why the total amount of memory isn't detected either. It
reports 1.0 GB, instead of 1.5. I think geting this right during the
installation is important if Ubuntu is to cater to users who may not know how to
install the required kernel afterwards or what a kernel is for that matter.

If I can be of further help, let me know.

[Colin Watson (cjwatson)]

(In reply to comment #2)
> (In reply to comment #1)
> > This is simply because the SMP kernel is not on the CD, so it cannot be
> > installed in the first stage of the install. Any fix for this would be an
> > enhancement, not critical.
>
> The problem is that the smp kernel cannot be installed after the base-install is
> over. When I select the package through synaptic, it complains that it cannot be
> installed and states that the likely cause is a bad package. If you want the
> precise error message, I should be able to provide it once I get home.

Yes, we will definitely need the precise error message.

> Besides this, not including the smp kernel might be a mistake because many
> machines today actually require it in order to take advantage of hyperthreading.
> (PIVs, Xeons and the upcoming dual core chips). Additionally, it seems that this
> is the likely reason why the total amount of memory isn't detected either. It
> reports 1.0 GB, instead of 1.5. I think geting this right during the
> installation is important if Ubuntu is to cater to users who may not know how to
> install the required kernel afterwards or what a kernel is for that matter.

Nevertheless, we have CD size limitations to consider here. Every kernel we
include means fewer languages we can support on the CD by default.

[Ric (ric-fhj52)]

(In reply to comment #3)
> (In reply to comment #2)
> > (In reply to comment #1)
> > > This is simply because the SMP kernel is not on the CD, so it cannot be
> > > installed in the first stage of the install. Any fix for this would be an
> > > enhancement, not critical.
> >
> > The problem is that the smp kernel cannot be installed after the base-install is
> > over. When I select the package through synaptic, it complains that it cannot be
> > installed and states that the likely cause is a bad package. If you want the
> > precise error message, I should be able to provide it once I get home.
>
> Yes, we will definitely need the precise error message.
>
> > Besides this, not including the smp kernel might be a mistake because many
> > machines today actually require it in order to take advantage of hyperthreading.
> > (PIVs, Xeons and the upcoming dual core chips). Additionally, it seems that this
> > is the likely reason why the total amount of memory isn't detected either. It
> > reports 1.0 GB, instead of 1.5. I think geting this right during the
> > installation is important if Ubuntu is to cater to users who may not know how to
> > install the required kernel afterwards or what a kernel is for that matter.
>
> Nevertheless, we have CD size limitations to consider here. Every kernel we
> include means fewer languages we can support on the CD by default.

The SMP kernel is almost the same size as the uniprocessor kernel.
The SMP kernel supports uniprocessor systems(it must).
I suggest substituting the SMP kernel to make hyperthreading and multi-processor
environments available now for (k)ubuntu while still supporting uni's.

Unless I am missing something, which is of course possible since I do not
work for Intel or AMD, the hyperthreaded environment is the future of desktop
systems. The sooner unbuntu supports it, the sooner any kinks can get kicked out.

WDYT?

( In case you are wondering, I have only SMP systems here & would like very much
to install (k)ubuntu ... )

[Matt Zimmerman (mdz)]

(In reply to comment #4)
> The SMP kernel is almost the same size as the uniprocessor kernel.
> The SMP kernel supports uniprocessor systems(it must).
> I suggest substituting the SMP kernel to make hyperthreading and multi-processor
> environments available now for (k)ubuntu while still supporting uni's.

We won't make this kind of change hastily; it requires careful consideration and
testing (the Ubuntu 5.04 release is only about a week away).
On the agenda for our April development conference is to discuss this issue a
find the best way to support SMP (and highmem) out of the box.

> ( In case you are wondering, I have only SMP systems here & would like very much
> to install (k)ubuntu ... )

You can enable SMP support after installation by installing linux-686-smp or
linuk-k7-smp as appropriate; a lack of automation here shouldn't prevent you
from installing.

[Ric (ric-fhj52)]

(In reply to comment #5)

Hi,
Thank you for the response.

> (In reply to comment #4)
> > The SMP kernel is almost the same size as the uniprocessor kernel.
> > The SMP kernel supports uniprocessor systems(it must).
> > I suggest substituting the SMP kernel to make hyperthreading and multi-processor
> > environments available now for (k)ubuntu while still supporting uni's.
>
> We won't make this kind of change hastily; it requires careful consideration and
> testing (the Ubuntu 5.04 release is only about a week away).
> On the agenda for our April development conference is to discuss this issue a
> find the best way to support SMP (and highmem) out of the box.
>

Wise.
I would not expect it in the default 5.4 ISO but had hoped an "alternate" SMP
ISO might be possible.
At the very least that might provide some preview of how many (k)ubuntu users
need or want SMP although I would not expect the number downloaded to be very
large, especially as a 'test' or 'alternate' ISO.
I don't know what is on (k)ubuntu ISOs so cannot help much(my boxes are busy
ATT) but ithink the only *major* change should be to switch the kernel. All
other widgets should, automagically, be accepting the change during the install,
correct?
But, even so, it is a big change especially considering that 2+GB of memory
should also be supported in that kernel/ISO(the other problem mentioned by
original reporter).

> > ( In case you are wondering, I have only SMP systems here & would like very much
> > to install (k)ubuntu ... )
>
> You can enable SMP support after installation by installing linux-686-smp or
> linuk-k7-smp as appropriate; a lack of automation here shouldn't prevent you
> from installing.

As I understood the original post, that did not work very well. Unfortunately
the precise error message is still missing so we do not know for certain what
caused the subsequent attempt to fail. Nevertheless, I will attempt to do as
you suggest (in April -too busy right now).

---
Since you indicate supporting SMP on the default ISO should be a topic of
discussion, this might be a reference bug number. However, "Vote for this Bug"
 is missing as a Bugzilla option(from my browser, firefox 102, at least). Could
that be turned on, please?

[Dave Gilbert (ubuntu-treblig)]

I've also got an SMP system and was surprised that Ubuntu didn't install an SMP
kernel
automatically. Unless there is a reason why an SMP kernel couldn't be the
default one
then I'd think it right that it should be (configured for say a max of 4 CPUs -
that means
that the largest sensible desktop config would be catered for - i.e. a dual chip
hyperthread
or more usefully dual chip, dual core).

Dual cores are going to be with us in force in the lifetime of this release!

[Matt Zimmerman (mdz)]

(In reply to comment #7)
> I've also got an SMP system and was surprised that Ubuntu didn't install an SMP
> kernel
> automatically. Unless there is a reason why an SMP kernel couldn't be the
> default one
> then I'd think it right that it should be (configured for say a max of 4 CPUs -
> that means
> that the largest sensible desktop config would be catered for - i.e. a dual chip
> hyperthread
> or more usefully dual chip, dual core).
>
> Dual cores are going to be with us in force in the lifetime of this release!

See comment #5. We are aware of this issue and intend to address it, but this
requires some forethought.

Meanwhile, if it is a requirement for you that an SMP kernel be installed by
default on SMP systems, use an Ubuntu DVD image.

[Ric (ric-fhj52)]

What " forethought " remains?
Perhaps because I have been using the SMP kernel for five years quite
successfully, I do not see the potential problem(s). There must be some
specific issue that is of concern to you/(K)Ubuntu.
Please explain and edify me in the process.

[Timo Aaltonen (tjaalton)]

The default kernel in upcoming 6.04 has SMP-support so this can be closed, yes?

[Colin Watson (cjwatson)]

Yes, the default kernel on amd64 and i386 now automatically switches between UP and SMP depending on the system. This isn't the case on powerpc yet, but nevertheless I think it's enough to consider this bug closed.