[jaunty] we should have both Amarok 2.x and Amarok 1.4

Bug #316889 reported by Bogdan Butnaru on 2009-01-13
44
This bug affects 4 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
amarok (Ubuntu)
Low
Unassigned

Bug Description

Binary package hint: amarok

Since Amarok 2.x is very different from the 1.4 series (the developers even describe it as a different player), and it's still less stable than that, we should keep in the repository a copy of 1.4, too.

Steve Stalcup (vorian) wrote :

I can appreciate your wanting to hang on to an older version of Amarok, but we will be using current releases of Amarok in Jaunty.

Our goal is to have as few KDE 3.5 applications and associated libs as possible in Jaunty.

Changed in amarok:
importance: Undecided → Low
status: New → Won't Fix
Alex Ott (alexott) wrote :

I also vote for keep old version of amarok in jaunty - new version has less features - for example, less conditions in smart playlists and so on.
New version also doesn't take into account songs ratings from the older version on upgrade, and requires re-categorization of the all songs once again.

Bogdan Butnaru (bogdanb) wrote :

By the way, I consider loss of ratings as a grave loss-of-user-data bug (they are manually entered). That is very bad even for an alpha release (though it's the only data I _do_ have backups for...)

Anyway, isn't it usual policy to enter non-backwards-compatible packages with a different name? I really think this should have been called amarok2, even if the old package is subsequently purged from the repositories. It would have at least allowed users to keep the old amarok without messing around with 'hold's in aptitude.

Harald Sitter (apachelogger) wrote :

We also have a policy about software that is unmaintained upstream. And Amarok1 is unmaintained upstream.

Anyway, if you get it past the archive admins even with this issue you can probably maintain an amarok1 package in universe.

Please understand that we don't have the resources to maintain 2 Amarok versions, even if we wouldn't have the mission to focus our efforts on moving KDE 4 based applications forward.

Bogdan Butnaru (bogdanb) wrote :

Certainly, I wasn't suggesting we should actually maintain it. But it should* have been easy to just demote the last version of Amarok 1.4 we had to universe/multiverse and leave it like that.

(* I have no idea, really.)

Actually, I think even just removing the amarok package completely and replacing it with an amarok2 package might have been better than replacing it.

Harald Sitter (apachelogger) wrote :

There is no point in discussing this. The replacement already happend and can't be reversed anyway. Also I don't see a reason why someone would be willingly exposing themselfs to secruity threats caused by using unmaintained software.

Bao2 (jmbbao) wrote :

Hey, I love you decided only ship Jaunty with Amarok 2.
Really... a good idea.

Well, someone knows how can I install Amarok 1.4 (the newer one is just a sh----------t)

Bogdan Butnaru (bogdanb) wrote :

Bao2, you can go to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+package/amarok and https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+package/amarok-common and download the last 1.4 package for your architecture. Then you have to remove amarok in aptitude, install the downloaded deb files manually (I think I used something like “gdebi --apt-line amarok_1.4.10-0ubuntu3_amd64.deb” to do that, according to my bash history.)

Then you have to hold the packages to that version, like “sudo aptitude hold amarok amarok-common”, so they don't get updated. However, note that currently update-manager doesn't honor the “hold” flag, so you have to use only aptitude to install updates.

The alternative is to simply remove Amarok from the repositories and install it manually (either from source or from the extracted debs). This has the advantage that the updates won't mess with your version, but you'll have to manage any dependencies manually and that may be annoying.

Bogdan Butnaru (bogdanb) wrote :

Actually, I'm not so sure about the part with "gdebi --apt-line”. I don't remember exactly how I installed the deb files, a double click might have been enough (but make sure you start with amarok-common and then install amarok itself).

You can also get the source package for amarok, hack it so the package receives a different name (like "amarok14" instead of "amarok"), and then build and install that one. This has the advantage that dependencies are handled automatically by aptitude and update-manager, but they don't try to update amarok to the repository version (2.*).

Bogdan Butnaru (bogdanb) wrote :

Bao2 (and others interested): There is now a build of Amarok 1.4 (derived from the last version that was in Jaunty) in my PPA: https://edge.launchpad.net/~bogdanb/+archive/ppa

These have received _really_ minimal testing, so read the warnings first, but they should work. The binary packages are renamed (e.g. "amarok14"), so I _think_ they won't get updated by 2.* versions. (But you can't have both.)

Bao2 (jmbbao) wrote :

Thanks Bogdan.
What I did is restore Ubuntu 8.10 from my backup with SystemRescueCD/partimage and I am again with Amarok 1.4 and Ubuntu 8.10
The thing in Amarok 2 I more dislike is the new thing in the middle to show pictures and so. You can't get rid of it (I couldn't do) and it is annoying. If you minimize it all the buttons go one above other.

I also wish for a simple way to install Amarok 1.4.

Last I looked at it (version 2.0.1 with Alpha-5), the pod-caching support in Amarok 2 was significantly inferior to that in version 1.4 (No obvious way to organize podcasts in folders, or to drag and drop an episode to a filesystem's folder.)

This and the fact that the are no other up-to-date pod-catching applications for KDE (that I can find -- and I looked) makes the omission of Amarok 1.4 a series gap in the functionality of Kubuntu 9.10.

AlterEgo (kipvogel) wrote :

Hi Bogdan Butnaru ,

I really appreciate your Amarok 1.4 packages. Are you considering updating those packages according to:
 [USN-739-1] Amarok vulnerabilities?

Many thanks!

Hi AlterEgo,

It would be nice to do that, but I doubt I'll find the time to do it
soon. I'm considering a few other bugs too (the Wikipedia display
hasn't been working for a while, and I'd like to use the new
notification system for the OSD), but I'll be quite busy with work for
the next month at least.

But patches are always welcome :-)

-- Bogdan Butnaru

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 6:59 PM, AlterEgo <email address hidden> wrote:
> Hi Bogdan Butnaru ,
>
> I really appreciate your Amarok 1.4 packages. Are you considering updating those packages according to:
>  [USN-739-1] Amarok vulnerabilities?
>
> Many thanks!
>
> --
> [jaunty] we should have both Amarok 2.x and Amarok 1.4
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/316889
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>

Bakon Jarser (jman88888) wrote :

@Harald Sitter

The point in discussing this is that amarok 1.4 is one of the most popular music players in linux and amarok 2 is not an acceptable replacement for lots (maybe most) amarok users.

I would also like to add my vote to having amarok1.4 in Jaunty.

Not only is 1.4 the best music player I have EVER used and the fact that 2.0 is missing MANY features, I can't even get it to play an mp3 file.

I installed the ubuntu-restricted-extras package but amarok still crashes when trying to play my mp3 file (it tries to play it over and over in rapid-fire, then crashes).

Features that I use in 1.4 missing in 2.0:
-queueing
-easy search tool (works as a very nice filter)
-artists sorted by first letter, then by name (I have 100's of artists)

Not to mention stability and overall UI degradation problems in Amarok2.

Jonathan Thomas (echidnaman) wrote :

This is quite impossible, which is why this bug is marked as Won't Fix.
Amarok 1.x itself has been officially marked as unmaintained by the Amarok developers, and according to policy we cannot adding new packages of unmaintained software. Amarok 1.x in a KDE4-only environment such as Kubuntu 8.10 or 9.04 is also a bit crippled, as it relies on KDE3 components that have been replaced by KDE4 components. Moving files to trash is impossible, for instance, because the trash kio slave which was part of KDE3's kdebase is gone, since kdebase is now at its KDE4 version. Unrelated to KDE3 vs KDE4, iPod support would also have to be removed, as Amarok 1.x is incompatible with the new libgpod versions. Last.fm support is also busted in Amarok 1.4. The software is dead and would be really buggy even if included.

And even if everybody at Kubuntu really, really wanted to make an amarok 1.4 package, at this point in time it would be pretty much impossible since we are past Feature Freeze, User Interface Freeze, and String freeze, meaning that a new package would be totally out of the question.

I'm sorry, but Amarok 1.4 packages just can't happen.

saamiel (saamiel) wrote :

Hi!

I have been using linux distributions from a 1 year, and to me how doesn't know much about linux programs, I'am just a simple user I was very fond of Amarok 1.x version. It was my favorite music player and it was very sophisticated in many ways.

After reading the discussions above I think that there are 3 possibilities:

1. We convince somehow (if we can) the Amarok developers to continue Amarok 1.x maintence.
2. We give up all hope for Amarok 1.x
3. We wait till Amarok 2.x reaches the same level as Amarok 1.x

Although I am aware that I have nothing done for Amarok, but the developres did, for free.. so I am thankful.

I'd like to add my voice to the disappointment over the Amarok changes - 1.4 was my favourite player, by a long shot - I have a large music collection and the tree view (with genre-artist-album sorting) made things very easy - Rhythmbox, Banshee, etc are very awkward by comparison. I use Gnome so the KDE plasmoid business means nothing to me - the new interface looks ugly in my opinion. The death knell though has to be the fact that I can't use Amarok 2 to transfer music to my mp3 player (iPod is too rich for my blood, I got a Philips gogear for $30 but it requires libmtp) and I'm not willing to transfer tracks from the command line using mtp-tools!
Anyway, thanks Bogdan for the 1.4 repos. I was going to make a suggestion that someone (that is, someone with programming skills, i.e. not me) take the old source and make some sort of platform independent version. Then someone pointed out the existence of Exaile, which seems to be a Gnome version of Amarok, so maybe I'll just have to abandon Amarok altogether.

Sarazar (rcrook) wrote :

I am very much disappointed by the decision re: amarok1.4 and Amarok 2. There is one really glaring issue that I find amazing. The lack of a resonable media device manager with out Amarok1.4.

It seems to be the flavour of the month and a very Microsoft attitude to release incomplete software in K/Ubuntu. The need to have the bleeding edge is over taking the need for functionality. KDE4 on Hardy before 80% of the 3.5 functionality was available. Amarok 2 before the media device manager is complete.

It is not helping the reputation or the penetration of linux and Ubuntu. As for the "Must Be Maintained" policy I think it need a rethink and an appropriate balance of functionality versus latest release be struck. I feel the KDE4 release and inclusion has been a perfect example of why the policy is flawed.

Just my 2 cents worth. The guys here and at KDE are doing an awesome job, no doubt about that, just think a little more thought is needed in the make up of the great Ubuntu products.

Keep up the good work.

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