Fluxbuntu

Bug #1 (liberation)
Comment #1045

Comment 1045 for bug 1

Revision history for this message

houstonbofh (leesharp) wrote on 2009-05-28: Re: [Bug 1] Re: Microsoft has a majority market share

#1045

Ittay Dror wrote:
> houstonbofh wrote:
>
>> This really shows that we have a perception problem. I am addressing
>> your issues, not to attack you, but to show you other answers. The real
>> question is why you did not see them.
>>
> Why do you dismiss this as a problem of perception and not a real
> problem? Do you really think that Ubuntu's only problem is perception
> and not finding information? See my comments inline.

Dude! A perception problem IS a real problem! It is huge. It is real.
And it is our biggest barrier to adoption. It absolutely needs to be
fixed to even hope to resolve Bug 1.

> I have compiz disabled and I have 4 desktop applications running -
> thunderbird, terminal, firefox and eclipse. this is what free shows:
> > free
> total used free shared buffers cached
> Mem: 4044664 2772556 1272108 0 476432 931564
> -/+ buffers/cache: 1364560 2680104
> Swap: 2851496 10896 2840600
>
> So 1.3GB is used.

I do not have eclipse. I do have a LOT of firefox instances and tabs
open, and my mail folder is about 2 gig in Thunderbird.

lee@boat:~$ free
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 2074856 839148 1235708 0 131500 338428
-/+ buffers/cache: 369220 1705636
Swap: 6080560 0 6080560

> Running the same set of applications in windows doesn't take so much
> memory. I have now running outlook, firefox, word, internet explorer,
> emule and sketchup and the total used memory is 871MB.

Or it could be your instance, as I am fitting in 2 gig just fine. Or it
could be eclipse... But it is not "Linux stinks!"

> My laptop is Thinkpad T61. I think the Thinkpad line of laptops is very
> reliable and widely used that it should just work.

I have currently 2 Dell Inspirons, a Latitude, a IBM T42, a Compaq
Presario 2200 with no issues at all on Jaunty. One of them had major
issues on Hardy. So by my anecdotal evidence, the "Thinkpad line"
works, and by your it does not. Again, it sounds like an issue specific
to you.

>> Same with Windows. Buy well supported hardware and it will work. Buy
>> poorly supported hardware and it won't. I have a Paperport scanner that
>> won't work under XP or better, but will work in Linux.
>>
> As mentioned, my laptop is Thinkpad T61. I think it should be well supported

What have you done to support that opinion? A quick google shows more
than a few issues with Linux on this laptop. Or did you just assume it
would be supported?

> I just made sure. To check the C drive in Windows, click Win+E,
> right-click on C, select properties->Tools and click Check Now in Error
> Checking. To fix errors you probably need to reboot, but just to check,
> there's no need.

I do not have Windows handy, but with XP and older, to do a low level
check, you needed to reboot. Perhaps Vista improved this... I do not know.

> And even if I have to reboot, why is it so hard to ask a disk check? Why
> isn't there some intuitive way of doing it from the desktop? Why is
> there no way of defragmenting (I know, Ext is built so it allocates
> space in the center, so less fragmentation occurs, still over time
> there is fragmentation)

Did you look at the link? There is a way, but it is not installed by
default.

As to defragmenting, that is because it is not needed, and is not
possible in the typical way. However, if you really feel you need it,
there are tools if you remount EXT2. You will find that it takes time,
and does not help. In a way, you are saying, "Where is the geese
fitting to lubricate my ball joints?" on a car with sealed ball joints.
I would say sealed ball joints are an improvement.

> I think the bug is that Ubuntu uses a lot of memory, freezes, forces me
> to reboot when I need to take my laptop and has several usability issues.

Yet there seem to be many people with uptimes over a year, running in
far less memory that a typical Windows system, and find Linux far easier
to use than Windows.

So how do we get you from where you are now, to where I am now? This is
a serious question. Would it take something like a "Disk Defragmenter"
Application that when you run it tells you that it is not needed and
gives the sealed ball joint analogy?

To fix this perception bug, which it is absolutely vital that we
address, we need to first fix your individule problems, and then figure
out why you could not, and than make it so that others can fix them more
intuitively. No small task...

Ittay Dror wrote:
> houstonbofh wrote:
> 
>> This really shows that we have a perception problem.  I am addressing 
>> your issues, not to attack you, but to show you other answers.  The real 
>> question is why you did not see them.
>>   
> Why do you dismiss this as a problem of perception and not a real 
> problem? Do you really think that Ubuntu's only problem is perception 
> and not finding information? See my comments inline.

Dude!  A perception problem IS a real problem!  It is huge.  It is real. 
  And it is our biggest barrier to adoption.  It absolutely needs to be 
fixed to even hope to resolve Bug 1.

> I have compiz disabled and I have 4 desktop applications running - 
> thunderbird, terminal, firefox and eclipse. this is what free shows:
>  > free
>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
> Mem:       4044664    2772556    1272108          0     476432     931564
> -/+ buffers/cache:    1364560    2680104
> Swap:      2851496      10896    2840600
> 
> So 1.3GB is used.

I do not have eclipse.  I do have a LOT of firefox instances and tabs 
open, and my mail folder is about 2 gig in Thunderbird.

lee@boat:~$ free
              total       used       free     shared    buffers    cached
Mem:       2074856     839148    1235708          0     131500    338428
-/+ buffers/cache:     369220    1705636
Swap:      6080560          0    6080560

> Running the same set of applications in windows doesn't take so much 
> memory. I have now running outlook, firefox, word, internet explorer, 
> emule and sketchup and the total used memory is 871MB.

Or it could be your instance, as I am fitting in 2 gig just fine.  Or it 
could be eclipse...  But it is not "Linux stinks!"

> My laptop is Thinkpad T61. I think the Thinkpad line of laptops is very 
> reliable and widely used that it should just work.

I have currently 2 Dell Inspirons, a Latitude, a IBM T42, a Compaq 
Presario 2200 with no issues at all on Jaunty.  One of them had major 
issues on Hardy.  So by my anecdotal evidence, the "Thinkpad line" 
works, and by your it does not.  Again, it sounds like an issue specific 
to you.

>> Same with Windows.  Buy well supported hardware and it will work.  Buy 
>> poorly supported hardware and it won't.  I have a Paperport scanner that 
>> won't work under XP or better, but will work in Linux.
>>   
> As mentioned, my laptop is Thinkpad T61. I think it should be well supported

What have you done to support that opinion?  A quick google shows more 
than a few issues with Linux on this laptop.  Or did you just assume it 
would be supported?

> I just made sure. To check the C drive in Windows, click Win+E, 
> right-click on C, select properties->Tools and click Check Now in Error 
> Checking. To fix errors you probably need to reboot, but just to check, 
> there's no need.

I do not have Windows handy, but with XP and older, to do a low level 
check, you needed to reboot.  Perhaps Vista improved this...  I do not know.

> And even if I have to reboot, why is it so hard to ask a disk check? Why 
> isn't there some intuitive way of doing it from the desktop? Why is 
> there no way of defragmenting (I know, Ext is built so it allocates 
> space in the center, so less fragmentation occurs,  still over time 
> there is fragmentation)

Did you look at the link?  There is a way, but it is not installed by 
default.

As to defragmenting, that is because it is not needed, and is not 
possible in the typical way.  However, if you really feel you need it, 
there are tools if you remount EXT2.  You will find that it takes time, 
and does not help.  In a way, you are saying, "Where is the geese 
fitting to lubricate my ball joints?" on a car with sealed ball joints. 
  I would say sealed ball joints are an improvement.

> I think the bug is that Ubuntu uses a lot of memory, freezes, forces me 
> to reboot when I need to take my laptop and has several usability issues.

Yet there seem to be many people with uptimes over a year, running in 
far less memory that a typical Windows system, and find Linux far easier 
to use than Windows.

So how do we get you from where you are now, to where I am now?  This is 
a serious question.  Would it take something like a "Disk Defragmenter" 
Application that when you run it tells you that it is not needed and 
gives the sealed ball joint analogy?

To fix this perception bug, which it is absolutely vital that we 
address, we need to first fix your individule problems, and then figure 
out why you could not, and than make it so that others can fix them more 
intuitively.  No small task...