Wrong regional format

[Achim]

Binary package hint: language-selector

My selected Regional format is DE - but the date in the panel is EN. See screenshot.

ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 11.04
Package: language-selector-gnome 0.34
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 2.6.38-8.42-generic 2.6.38.2
Uname: Linux 2.6.38-8-generic x86_64
NonfreeKernelModules: fglrx
Architecture: amd64
Date: Wed Apr 27 21:34:02 2011
ExecutablePath: /usr/bin/gnome-language-selector
InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 11.04 "Natty Narwhal" - Beta amd64 (20110413)
InterpreterPath: /usr/bin/python2.7
PackageArchitecture: all
ProcEnviron:
 SHELL=/bin/bash
 LC_MESSAGES=en_US.UTF-8
 LANGUAGE=en_US:en
 LANG=de_DE.UTF-8
SourcePackage: language-selector
UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to natty on 2011-04-21 (5 days ago)

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj)]

Thanks for your help to make Ubuntu better by reporting this observation!

On 2011-04-27 21:38, Achim wrote:
> My selected Regional format is DE - but the date in the panel is EN.
> See screenshot.

On the screenshot I read: "Changes take effect next time you log in."
Did you log out after having set the regional formats option "Deutch
(Deutchland)" and then logged in again?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj)]

Please disregard the question I asked in my previous comment, Achim. Just noticed the "running-unity" tag, and the bug is easily reproducable in Unity.

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj)]

Hmm.. This is somewhat embarrassing, but I made a couple of further
tests, and I'd like to sum up my view on this matter at this time:

* The "Regional Formats" setting in Language Support affects the LANG
  environment variable, which typically determines the region specific
  formats settings for most applications.

* The display formats of time and date in Unity's top bar are not
  controlled by the LANG variable, but are instead explicitly set in the
  Time & Date tool that e.g. can be launched from the Control Center.

* As regards the weekday and month names, they are displayed in the
  language that is set on the "Language" tab in Language Support.
  Please see the attachment "weekday-month-lang-unity.png".

I would say that Achim's observation regarding the display language of
weekday and month names is not a bug, but it's an improvement compared
to how it works in the Classic Desktop (or, if you like, a feature).

Before closing this bug, I for one would appreciate confirmations from
both Achim and somebody from the Unity team that my latest 'theory' is
correct, and that I didn't overlook anything important again. :-/
Awaiting those comments I change the bug status to "Incomplete".

[Achim (p-e-g-a-s-u-s)]

Hi Gunnar,

as you see, this sentence "changed - log in again" and so on - it is the whole day there. Doesn't matter whether you change something or not - it's still there. Second, changing this setting in 10.10, the clock was set to the regional format. Now i could startup with further things: Why doesn't my languange (for menus & apps) change to english (US) if i choose the languages in this order: EN (US), DE, EN. Why do i see german then?! Why have i to through out german (in other words: Set it below EN) to have english back? German is the second choice - not the first one.
Back to the subject - regional formats: Why does evolution show me the date in my messages header in english? Again: I selected german location. Affected is not only the clock panel, but'it's the first thing i see. Only if i choose the german language for menus and apps, then i get the regional format in german everywhere (clock panel, evolution and so on).
Now a real-should-be question is: What sense makes this "regional format" register in language support panel, when everybody does whatever he wants - no matter what you choose there? I think this should be either fixed - or simply remove that register from the language support. Then it's not a bug - it is a removed feature.

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj)]

On 2011-04-28 07:11, Achim wrote:
> as you see, this sentence "changed - log in again" and so on - it is
> the whole day there. Doesn't matter whether you change something or
> not - it's still there.

Yes, it's a static text string. Obviously there is room for a more fancy
solution, but awaiting that somebody will create such a feature, the
static string is better than no info at all, right?

> Second, changing this setting in 10.10, the clock was set to the
> regional format.

Correct. It's true also in 11.04 Classic Desktop.

> Why doesn't my languange (for menus & apps) change to english (US)
> if i choose the languages in this order: EN (US), DE, EN. Why do i
> see german then?!

It does change to English. Of course, you need to log out when the
languages are listed in that order and log in again.

If you claim otherwise, please give us a reproducable use case. (Waiting
for your next comment on bug #772928, btw.)

> Why have i to through out german (in other words: Set it below EN)
> to have english back? German is the second choice - not the first
> one.

You do not have to do that. OTOH, since English is always available,
there is no point with non-English options below English (US).

> Back to the subject - regional formats: Why does evolution show me
> the date in my messages header in english? Again: I selected german
> location. Affected is not only the clock panel, but'it's the first
> thing i see. Only if i choose the german language for menus and
> apps, then i get the regional format in german everywhere (clock
> panel, evolution and so on).

Thought I covered that in my last comment. You seem to mix up the
_translation_ of weekday and month names with regional _formats_.

> Now a real-should-be question is: What sense makes this "regional
> format" register in language support panel, when everybody does
> whatever he wants - no matter what you choose there? I think this
> should be either fixed - or simply remove that register from the
> language support. Then it's not a bug - it is a removed feature.

I see your point there. Please note that the remark in my last comment,
about the change being an improvement, referred to the display language
of weekday and month names only.

The global regional formats setting in Language Support vs. per app
settings is worth discussing IMO. Think I'll bring up the topic in e.g.
the ubuntu-devel mailing list.

Quite a few i18n changes were made in Language Support and GDM during
the Natty development phase. Therefore I do appreciate that you
challenge the result - it may help us identify things that have been
foreseen. But when doing so, it's important to be attentive to details.
If you click the "Help" button in Language Support, you are taken to a
new document that explains how it's intended to work. I would recommend
that you read that document carefully.

My belief is that Language Support and GDM now work as documented with
respect to language and locale handling. Possible cases when that is
not true are bugs - either in the code or in the docs - that should be
fixed soon. Requests for new features is another story. :)

Thanks!

[Christoph Buchner (bilderbuchi)]

ahm , comment was eaten somehow:
While I echo Gunnar's comment (date format and date language are two different things), I have found a simliar peculiarity. When clicking on the date in the panel, the panel date language and the popup date language are different. see screenshot.
My language situation is similar to Achims's, locale gives
LANG=de_AT.UTF-8
LANGUAGE=en_GB:en
LC_CTYPE=de_AT.UTF-8
LC_NUMERIC=en_GB.UTF-8
LC_TIME=de_DE.UTF-8
...

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj)]

@Christoph
Well, _that_ is easy to reproduce. Somebody couldn't make up their mind. :) IMNSHO, displaying the weekday and month using the current language (i.e. not regional formats) is the preferable behavior.

Somehow it seems to be difficult to get the display of dates right; it's confusing on the login screen as well (see bug #777264).

Changing the status of this report to a confirmed Unity bug.

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj)]

Even if bug 1072019 is newer, I marked this bug as a duplicate of it, to show that the issues discussed above are being worked on.