[ALC888 - HDA ATI SB] Headphones don't mute master sound

[daf]

When plugging in headphones, the master output is not muted any more (It used to mute prior to 9.04 if memory serves correctly).

This first appeared on my upgrade to 9.04 (yes, that long ago). I've been attached to bug #464863 since then because it looks like the same problem. That bug has been closed out (I think due to inactivity) and I've been asked to log a new one (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/464863/comments/11). So here it is.

Please let me know if there is other info I can provide or tests I can do.

uname -a reports: Linux nea 2.6.32-25-preempt #44-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Fri Sep 17 22:21:55 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
Hardware info: lspci provides:
00:00.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] RS780 Host Bridge
00:02.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] RS780 PCI to PCI bridge (ext gfx port 0)
00:05.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] RS780 PCI to PCI bridge (PCIE port 1)
00:11.0 SATA controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB700/SB800 SATA Controller [IDE mode]
00:12.0 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB700/SB800 USB OHCI0 Controller
00:12.1 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB700 USB OHCI1 Controller
00:12.2 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB700/SB800 USB EHCI Controller
00:13.0 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB700/SB800 USB OHCI0 Controller
00:13.1 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB700 USB OHCI1 Controller
00:13.2 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB700/SB800 USB EHCI Controller
00:14.0 SMBus: ATI Technologies Inc SBx00 SMBus Controller (rev 3a)
00:14.1 IDE interface: ATI Technologies Inc SB700/SB800 IDE Controller
00:14.2 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA)
00:14.3 ISA bridge: ATI Technologies Inc SB700/SB800 LPC host controller
00:14.4 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc SBx00 PCI to PCI Bridge
00:14.5 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB700/SB800 USB OHCI2 Controller
00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration
00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map
00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller
00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GT200 [GeForce GTX 260] (rev a1)
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 02)
03:07.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Inc. Atheros AR5001X+ Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01)

Arch is AMD 64-bit.

Please, again, let me know if I can provide more info.

ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 10.04
Package: alsa-base 1.0.22.1+dfsg-0ubuntu3
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 2.6.32-25.44-preempt 2.6.32.21+drm33.7
Uname: Linux 2.6.32-25-preempt x86_64
NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia
AlsaVersion: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.21.
Architecture: amd64
AudioDevicesInUse:
 USER PID ACCESS COMMAND
 /dev/snd/controlC0: daf 2542 F.... pulseaudio
Card0.Amixer.info:
 Card hw:0 'SB'/'HDA ATI SB at 0xf9ff4000 irq 16'
   Mixer name : 'Realtek ALC888'
   Components : 'HDA:10ec0888,14627551,00100001'
   Controls : 35
   Simple ctrls : 20
Date: Tue Oct 5 22:15:31 2010
InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic Koala" - Release amd64 (20091027.1)
PackageArchitecture: all
ProcEnviron:
 PATH=(custom, user)
 LANG=en_ZA.UTF-8
 SHELL=/bin/zsh
SelectedCard: 0 SB HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB
SourcePackage: alsa-driver
Symptom: audio
Title: [HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB] Playback problem
UserAsoundrc:
 # ALSA library configuration file

 # Include settings that are under the control of asoundconf(1).
 # (To disable these settings, comment out this line.)
 </home/daf/.asoundrc.asoundconf>
dmi.bios.date: 11/23/2009
dmi.bios.vendor: American Megatrends Inc.
dmi.bios.version: V3.6
dmi.board.asset.tag: To Be Filled By O.E.M.
dmi.board.name: KA780G-M (MS-7551)
dmi.board.vendor: MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD
dmi.board.version: 1.0
dmi.chassis.asset.tag: To Be Filled By O.E.M.
dmi.chassis.type: 3
dmi.chassis.vendor: MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD
dmi.chassis.version: 1.0
dmi.modalias: dmi:bvnAmericanMegatrendsInc.:bvrV3.6:bd11/23/2009:svnMICRO-STARINTERNATIONALCO.,LTD:pnMS-7551:pvr1.0:rvnMICRO-STARINTERNATIONALCO.,LTD:rnKA780G-M(MS-7551):rvr1.0:cvnMICRO-STARINTERNATIONALCO.,LTD:ct3:cvr1.0:
dmi.product.name: MS-7551
dmi.product.version: 1.0
dmi.sys.vendor: MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD

[David Henningsson (diwic)]

According to your BIOS, you don't have any internal speakers, only line-out. Is this correct? Headphones should only automute speakers, not line-outs.

[daf (davydm)]

I'm not sure if I'm going to answer your question correctly, so here goes:

I don't have internal speakers -- in that I don't have any speakers actually
inside my machine. Not sure if that's what you're asking?

I do use the pcm out (green jack) at the back of the machine to feed into
powered creative 4.1 speakers (but I only use the first stereo jack -- the
speaker set will automatically duplicate front to back when only given one
input and I have never managed to reliably get 4.1 sound on things that
support it as well as getting music apps (like audacious) to output to both
the front and back speakers -- so I just leave it in "stereo").

Have I answered your question?

-d

On 6 October 2010 14:29, David Henningsson <email address hidden>wrote:

> According to your BIOS, you don't have any internal speakers, only line-
> out. Is this correct? Headphones should only automute speakers, not
> line-outs.
>
> ** Summary changed:
>
> - [HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB] Headphones don't mute master sound
> + [ALC888 - HDA ATI SB] Headphones don't mute master sound
>
> ** Changed in: alsa-driver (Ubuntu)
> Status: New => Incomplete
>
> --
> [ALC888 - HDA ATI SB] Headphones don't mute master sound
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/655351
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The competent programmer is fully aware of the limited size of his own
skull. He therefore approaches his task with full humility, and avoids
clever tricks like the plague.
- Djikstra.

[David Henningsson (diwic)]

Yes. This behaviour is by design. I asked upstream a while ago about exactly that.

[daf (davydm)]

It's weird that it's "by design" from a user perspective:

1) That Other OS (Windows) mutes the speaker output when jacking in
headphones on the same machine
2) pre 9.04, so did Ubuntu.

Now I have to make sure that I turn down the hardware volume on my
plugged-in speakers whenever I jack in headphones -- what do people do when
they don't have hardware volume controls on their cheap-ass external
speakers? I'm not having a go at you -- I just don't understand the "by
design" decision. I could get it if it was an option to allow this
behaviour, but not the only way ):

-d

On 6 October 2010 15:24, David Henningsson <email address hidden>wrote:

> Yes. This behaviour is by design. I asked upstream a while ago about
> exactly that.
>
> ** Changed in: alsa-driver (Ubuntu)
> Status: Incomplete => Invalid
>
> --
> [ALC888 - HDA ATI SB] Headphones don't mute master sound
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/655351
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The competent programmer is fully aware of the limited size of his own
skull. He therefore approaches his task with full humility, and avoids
clever tricks like the plague.
- Djikstra.

[David Henningsson (diwic)]

For reference, here's the thread (and not that it got many replies though)

http://mailman.alsa-project.org/pipermail/alsa-devel/2010-August/030071.html

[daf (davydm)]

But you see now, that thread makes sense: the line-out shouldn't be muted.
Speaker out should. The jack ports are: light-blue for line-out and green
for speaker out. I'm using green ):

Should I re-open this?

I just had the correct behaviour under windows -- was playing Borderlands
with headphones and only realised that my amp volume was still on when I
rebooted and got Ubuntu event sounds.

-d

On 6 October 2010 20:26, David Henningsson <email address hidden>wrote:

> devel/2010-August/030071.html
>

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The competent programmer is fully aware of the limited size of his own
skull. He therefore approaches his task with full humility, and avoids
clever tricks like the plague.
- Djikstra.

[David Henningsson (diwic)]

Um, light blue is line-in, not line-out.
I'm not sure if I have ever seen a "speaker out" and if so, I don't remember what color it had.

[daf (davydm)]

I'm obviously confused about the jack colors ):

However, examining general sound equipment usage:

Line-out *shouldn't be amplified*. Speaker-out should. Line-out should be
used by people who have dedicated amplifiers (ie, me: I should be using it,
but I don't -- I haven't stumbled across not having a line-out on my current
hardware because I like having the volume control "just work". I do,
however, remember jacking into the wrong port on a prior card (I think it
was an SB) and getting a very low volume with no amp, finding out it was
line-out and switching to speaker-out). Speaker-out should be used for
simple speakers which require amplification or lazy people like me who like
using software volume controls.

So it wouldn't surprise me, since I've obviously gotten the colors wrong (or
misread things) that most audio cards don't have a real line-out -- they
just have a speaker-out.

So, whilst I'm certainly not picking a fight with you (since this is
apparently an upstream decision), I can still come back to my original
points:
1) headphones muting the speakers used to work pre-9.04 (so we have an
established user expectation even under Ubuntu)
2) headphones mute the built-in speakers of my laptop (windows and ubuntu)
-- why the inconsistent behaviour for a desktop? Just because the speakers
in the laptop are bolted into the frame of the machine? What an arbitrary
3) Windows gets it right: plugging in headphones mutes external speakers --
it's convenient. Though I think you can disable that feature if you want.
I'm told by a person at work that his Mac does the same.
4) It seems to be the expectation of the user -- note the number of bug
reports against this design choice.

Again, I'm really not fighting with you on this -- picking a fight with you
would be kinda pointless here (:
However, I would like to ask you for some help: where would I lodge this as
a request upstream? ALSA devs? It's easy to report an ubuntu bug/request
with apport -- not so easy to know what to do if the problem isn't
Ubuntu-specific. I don't mind taking this further -- there seems to be
enough general confusion over the matter that there might actually be some
consideration put into my request (or am I just being naive and optimistic?)

Thanks
-d

On 7 October 2010 11:07, David Henningsson <email address hidden>wrote:

> Um, light blue is line-in, not line-out.
> I'm not sure if I have ever seen a "speaker out" and if so, I don't
> remember what color it had.
>
> --
> [ALC888 - HDA ATI SB] Headphones don't mute master sound
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/655351
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The competent programmer is fully aware of the limited size of his own
skull. He therefore approaches his task with full humility, and avoids
clever tricks like the plague.
- Djikstra.

[David Henningsson (diwic)]

> So it wouldn't surprise me, since I've obviously gotten the colors wrong (or
> misread things) that most audio cards don't have a real line-out -- they
> just have a speaker-out.

I know for sure that most audio cards have either a headphone-out or a line-out (or both), and that speaker-outs are rare. Haven't seen one since the old SB16 days.

> However, I would like to ask you for some help: where would I lodge this as
> a request upstream? ALSA devs?

Yes, I think it is in the alsa-devel mailing list, where the decisions like these are made.

[daf (davydm)]

Thanks, I've made a post there. Good luck to me (:

-d

On 7 October 2010 13:00, David Henningsson <email address hidden>wrote:

> > So it wouldn't surprise me, since I've obviously gotten the colors wrong
> (or
> > misread things) that most audio cards don't have a real line-out -- they
> > just have a speaker-out.
>
> I know for sure that most audio cards have either a headphone-out or a
> line-out (or both), and that speaker-outs are rare. Haven't seen one
> since the old SB16 days.
>
> > However, I would like to ask you for some help: where would I lodge this
> as
> > a request upstream? ALSA devs?
>
> Yes, I think it is in the alsa-devel mailing list, where the decisions
> like these are made.
>
> --
> [ALC888 - HDA ATI SB] Headphones don't mute master sound
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/655351
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The competent programmer is fully aware of the limited size of his own
skull. He therefore approaches his task with full humility, and avoids
clever tricks like the plague.
- Djikstra.