Copy/Delete packages undiscoverably hidden behind "View package details"

[Scott Kitterman]

"View package details" leads me to think that the link will give me more information about packages. The fact that it also allows me to take actions on packages is completely orthogonal to the description of the link. This is particularly frustrating because these actions used to be immediately available and now they are obscurely hidden.

[Michael Nelson (michael.nelson)]

Hrm - +packages page does show you more information about the packages (ie. the table has much more info and each item is expandable), but you are right, it is not just a page where you can view more details about packages - you can also take actions on those packages etc.

It is really a "Developer/uploader dashboard for this PPA", but I'm not sure that that would work either. "Developer dashboard"? Something along those lines would also make it obvious where the copy/delete package action links are too (note - we want to move those actions into the +package page itself).

Julian - what are your thoughts here?

(Note: I don't think it's a bad thing that users potentially wanting to install software from a PPA are not presented with Delete/Copy packages, and I understand that this is frustrating for developers who are used to PPA index pages being developer-centric, but I do hope we can find a solution that suits both use cases.)

[Scott Kitterman (kitterman)]

I understand the theory, but the design in this case is obtuse. On the
broader question, perhaps the "developer" view could be default for users
that have upload rights to the PPA?

[Julian Edwards (julian-edwards)]

I think the new +archive page is largely useless for developers, so one idea is to auto-redirect anyone with upload permissions straight to the +packages page, and put a link there that takes you back to the user page in a way that won't redirect.

Would this be any good?

[Julian Edwards (julian-edwards)]

Ah, I left the comment open too long before pressing "post comment" - Scott has the same idea.

[Michael Nelson (michael.nelson)]

Julian - IMO the new archive index page is only useless to the PPA uploaders if they don't want any non-technical users of their PPA. So one of the main considerations is that as the owner/publisher of a PPA, I need to see the PPA as my users would see it also. A bit like a facebook profile or similar. I need to tweak the public display of my PPA to potential users.

Scott, as an uploader, does your browser automatically prompt you with the urls that you visit most often first? One of my main assumptions was that as an uploader for a PPA, I would go directly to +packages (it's certainly what I've been doing). Of course this won't happen initially because we're all used to going to /+archive/ppa (and we've many visits to that url in our browser history, increasing its priority). Or do you navigate to your PPA via a link from your profile? In essence, it'd be really helpful for me to know *how* you are navigating to your PPA (actually, how you have always navigated to the PPAs to which you're uploading).

The redirect idea has been discussed, but it's not so straight-forward, as there is quite a lot of functionality that's currently only available from the ppa index (all of which can be updated of course - I just think it requires a bit more thought and input from a range of users).

1. Displayname/description editing,
2. Dependencies
3. Managing access (private ppa's only)
4. Administering ppas (admin only).
5. Uploading instructions (uploaders only)
6. Dependency editing (uploaders only)

[Scott Kitterman (kitterman)]

If I need to find a PPA page, I generally find the person/team page (e.g.
ubuntu-clamav) and click on the PPA link from the page. If I don't do it
that way, it's through url completion in my browser history.

[Michael Nelson (michael.nelson)]

Thanks Scott.

So I'll try to summarize - let me know if I mis-represent something.

1. As an experienced uploader/developer of a PPA that I use often I will usually use my browsers url completion to reach the ppa. Because of the long usage of /+archive/name in my browser history this currently leaves me at the index page - which is frustrating - but will change as my browser adapts (or if I clear the history).

2. As an experienced uploader/developer of a PPA that I use rarely I will usually find the person/team page and click on the PPA link. This leaves me at the PPA index page which is generally not what I expect. This page does have the description, (eventually) changelog history, (eventually) installable binaryies for my distroseries etc., but I'll usually want to work with the packages of the PPA, and have to click on the 'View package details' link. This link is not well named - the actual point of this bug. (Note: when we update the ppa index to display the installable binaries for users instead, the link to /+packages can be simply 'Source packages' - would that help?)

3. As an inexperienced/new uploader/developer of a PPA the PPA index is a good starting point, allowing me to customise the PPA (name, description), see the latest updates at a glance, instructions on how I can upload to my PPA, statistics of the current state of my PPA. As I learn I'll end up tailoring the PPA index for my users (like Fabian has done at https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa).

Note: all the above are assuming an uploader/developer of a PPA. As a normal user (experienced or not), I believe we can continue to improve the PPA index page so that it's useful to all potential PPA users.

OK, let me know if you disagree or have other thoughts. Thanks!

[Scott Kitterman (kitterman)]

I'll have to sit down and look this over with the U/I in front of me. My
initial reaction is:

1. I'm not going to clear my browser cache for this, it's got way too much
in it.

2. It's much more common for me to use people/team name because the PPA
URL rarely is in the cache anyway.

So I don't think the over time it will improve really matches my
experience.

[Michael Nelson (michael.nelson)]

Great... that's good information to know... I'd assumed (1), and have questions about (2). Maybe when you have time we could schedule a call or something to save all the back-and-forthing.

[Michael Nelson (michael.nelson)]

AFAICS, a large part of this issue will be fixed once bug 496862 is resolved (the index page will display installable binaries rather than the source packages). The link will no-longer be "View package details", but "View source packages", which IMO will be the correct place to copy/delete or carry out other actions on source packages.

[Michael Nelson (michael.nelson)]

After talking with Julian, in addition to bug 496862, simply adding the copy/delete menu items to the index page will help to some degree.

But the issue will remain that the index page is trying to help users evaluate: "Do I want to add this PPA to my system, and if so, how". We could investigate an option such as:

If the index URL is requested AND
the current user is a dev (?) AND
the REFERER is not within /~person/+archive
THEN
redirect to '+packages'.

Or something similar. But I'd be *very* wary of doing something like that. It can seem very unpredictable if you don't expect it.

[Timothy R. Chavez (timrchavez)]

So.. out of curiosity, what's the ETA on this?

[Julian Edwards (julian-edwards)]

Timothy, this is not in the schedule right now. Given that the workaround is a single click to get to another page, we're unlikely to prioritise this over other more urgent bugs. I'd be very happy to mentor anyone who is keen enough to dive into the code themselves though.