volume slider should not use PCM but software mixer or master volume

[seguso]

I am not sure what package to file the bug to, however here it goes.

Dapper Drake. Play a song with xmms and decrease the volume in XMMS until the song is barely audible (e.g. volume 7%). Close xmms. Open a movie with totem: you find out that the volume slider in totem is already at max and cannot be increased, but the volume is still too low. Then you try to increase the master volume (the applet on gnome-panel) but you discover it is also at max. So you get stuck: there is no apparent way to play the movie at decent volume. You _could_ launch xmms again and increase the volume slider, but a newbie would not discover that or accept it anyway.
In short, it seems the volume control in apps like XMMS and mplayer takes over totem's slider, and causes it to malfunction.

Note: the original reporter indicated the bug was in package 'gstreamer'; however, that package was not published in Ubuntu.

[Dennis Kaarsemaker (dennis)]

No need for 3 tasks...

[seguso (maurizio-colucci)]

Dennis, I have some objections about the title you have set.

1. I don't see why the XMMS volume slider should affect the master volume, since Totem's slider does not do that.

2. the problem is not restricted to XMMS. Mplayer for example seems to have the same disruptive power on the volume.

[Raoul Verveer (lazy-r)]

This is not a bug, it's just a setting:

If you open the option dialog in xmms you can configure your Audio I/O plugin:

1) ALSA: you can choose to use a software mixer, or a hardware mixer. If you go for the hardware mixer you can select any mixer device (Master, PCM, Line, Synth, etc.) from your soundcard.

2) OSS: here you can only choose a (hardware) audiocard and mixer device. In the mixer tab, you can (un)check the option that causes XMMS to "use master, not PCM"

[Sebastien Bacher (seb128)]

do you still think that's a bug after reading the previous comment?

[seguso (maurizio-colucci)]

This bug was not about XMMS. (the current bug title was set by someone else). It is about some apps breaking the volume of other apps. More precisely: the problem is that XMMS _and_ mplayer are able to bring the sound system in such a state that you cannot hear anything with totem and kaffeine, regardlessly of how you set totem's slider, or how you set the master volume via the panel applet. This means that, in order to restore the sound to an audible state, you must either reopen xmms/mplayer and move their slider, or open the volume control panel by right clicking the panel applet. Neither solution is discoverable.

What about Raoul's suggestion? Kind of works, but that is IMHO a non-solution because it is not discoverable and it only affects XMMS (not mplayer).
Also, it brings XMMS to behave differently than totem: totem's slider does not control the master volume.

[Raoul Verveer (lazy-r)]

Indeed, the Totem volume control doesn't affect the master volume, or any other hardware mixer: Totem uses a software mixer.
The slider from the gnome mixer applet only affects the master volume.
XMMS by default (in Ubuntu) defaults to the hardware PCM mixer. I don' t know about mplayer...

If you open XMMS and decrease the volume, the PCM mixer is decreased. The software mixer from Totem, nor the master volume is affected by this. You can however increase the volume without opening XMMS, by opening the gnome-mixer window and increase the PCM slider.

[Raoul Verveer (lazy-r)]

Does above information resolve your issue, or am I interpreting your information badly?

[seguso (maurizio-colucci)]

Well, the issue of discoverability is not solved. It is up to you to decide if it's important. The user will not understand why he can't hear sound anymore.

Furthermore, the issue in mplayer is not solved at all.

Since it seems that the problem is not in the sound engine or in totem, but in XMMS and mplayer, we could remove totem from the "affects" section. We could also split the bug in two (one for XMMS and one for mplayer). I don't know really.

[Raoul Verveer (lazy-r)]

I found out that in MPlayer the mixer can also be configured to use OSS or ALSA, assign a mixer channer or enable a sofware mixer wich doens't affect any channel.

Unfortunately I am not in the position to make any choices about what's important in Ubuntu ;-)
But you have a point about the usabilty and default configurations of the multimedia packages. It shouldn't be that hard to configure xmms, Totem and MPlayer all to use a software mixer, or perhaps the master channel.

Perhaps some people at Ubuntu can shine a light on this?

[Raoul Verveer (lazy-r)]

I created a new user account and foud out that the defaults for some programs are different indeed:

XMMS ==> Alsa/PCM mixer
Mplayer ==> Alsa/PCM mixer
GXine ==> Alsa/PCM mixer
Totem ==> Software mixer

Can some package maintainers have a look at this and try to package these multimedia packages so that they all use the same mixer channel, or a software mixer?

[Darren Salt (dsalt)]

I demand that Raoul Verveer may or may not have written...

> I created a new user account and foud out that the defaults for some
> programs are different indeed:

> XMMS ==> Alsa/PCM mixer
> Mplayer ==> Alsa/PCM mixer
> GXine ==> Alsa/PCM mixer
> Totem ==> Software mixer

gxine uses whatever defaults libxine1 chooses.

[snip]
--
| Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
| RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| + Generate power using sun, wind, water, nuclear. FORGET COAL AND OIL.

Stay away from flying saucers today.

[kko (kko)]

Also kmplayer uses PCM, and I had trouble with it (embedded in Konqueror) altering PCM volume without my consent. I would appreciate it if someone checked this and marked this issue confirmed also for 'kmplayer', as it wouldn't be proper for me to do it myself.

It seems to me that the key to usability with colum control is _consistent_ behaviour across different applications and throughout the system. So, whatever the solution, it should not cause the kind of conflicts with different applications' volume sliders as reported here.

(As an aside: Since a number of applications (I use mplayer) use and alter PCM volume, I've decided to partially circumvent the problem by making also the volume applet in my panel directly alter "PCM" volume instead of "main". I find myself sometimes having to call up the mixer and change both of them, though.)

[kko (kko)]

Typo: "colum control" -> "volume control". :-)

[Jonathan Davies (jpds)]

I believe that this is a feature in KMPlayer.

[Benjamin Drung (bdrung)]

Unfortunately xmms was removed since Ubuntu 8.04 "Hardy Heron" because it was unmaintained. So we will not implement this feature for xmms.

[Jarno Suni (jarnos)]

I remember I could change gxine's mixer device to be software mixer, but I don't remember what alsa_mixer_name I used anymore. I remember I got some hint from xmms's settings dialog, but I can't install it anymore in Ubuntu 8.04 to refresh my memory. I think software mixer would be great, as by that you can set relative volumes of different sound sources individually and software mixer has effect in all sound card outputs so changing software mixer setting keeps their relative volume same.

[Tom (tom6)]

Ok, im a noob and don't understand...

Do most applications that use the speakers have their own setting as a percentage of the overall-system-wide-Main-Volume?

This would seem, to me, to be perfect - especially if each application remembered its own setting but didn't change the main one.

I tend to prefer my music at one of 2 main volumes. Firstly as background and second (much much louder) when i'm either annoyed or getting ready to go out to a gig. So i could have 2 players & rename one of them 'Pre-gig' :)

Is PCM the 'Main Volume'?

[Tom (tom6)]

Ahhh, just been trying to re-read some of the above.

Thanks Raoul Verveer for listing which apps use which volume control. A useful issue to know. Also thanks to Kko for distinguishing between PCM and 'Main Volume' aswell as the advice about applets.

Apparently it was found that 'UFO sightings' are more likely at 7pm on a Wednesday evening so watch the skies tonight ;) Personally i think the only evidence that there is intelligent life out there is that it hasn't tried to contact us yet ;) lol, good luck and happy hunting :)

[Tom (tom6)]

87.25% of statistics are made up?

[Jarno Suni (jarnos)]

You can choose software mixer in xine provided by xine-ui package from motumedia ppa at least. It is audio mixer control method in gui settings, if you choose experience level advanced or more expert. I couldn't find similar setting in gxine of ubuntu 9.04.

[Jarno Suni (jarnos)]

Totem uses software mixer (at least in 10.4)

[Jarno Suni (jarnos)]

xine is still configured to use sound card mixer instead of software mixer by default in 10.4 testing. (gxine does not work at all.)

[Launchpad Janitor (janitor)]

[Expired for xine-lib (Ubuntu) because there has been no activity for 60 days.]

[Launchpad Janitor (janitor)]

[Expired for kmplayer (Ubuntu) because there has been no activity for 60 days.]

[Launchpad Janitor (janitor)]

[Expired for mplayer (Ubuntu) because there has been no activity for 60 days.]