ubuntu-minimal depends on ubuntu-advantage-tools

[Bartłomiej Żogała]

This is counter to #1566183 There is no reason to enforce desktop users who manage machine on their own to install ubuntu-advantage-tools, especially when this is 'minimal' version. This should include only essential packages to make the OS functional

ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 20.04
Package: ubuntu-minimal 1.450.2
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.4.0-73.82-lowlatency 5.4.106
Uname: Linux 5.4.0-73-lowlatency x86_64
NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia
ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu27.18
Architecture: amd64
CasperMD5CheckResult: skip
Date: Fri Jun 4 18:54:56 2021
InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-01-29 (491 days ago)
InstallationMedia: Ubuntu-MATE 19.10 "Eoan Ermine" - Release amd64 (20191017)
SourcePackage: ubuntu-meta
UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to focal on 2020-06-27 (342 days ago)

[Launchpad Janitor (janitor)]

Status changed to 'Confirmed' because the bug affects multiple users.

[Dan Watkins (oddbloke)]

I would also like to see this change:

* ubuntu-advantage-tools and its dependencies add about 3MB to ubuntu-minimal installations (checked by installing ubuntu-minimal's Depends in a Docker container with and without u-a-t)
* it installs a systemd timer which runs (to do nothing, as the service it runs is disabled without ua-auto-attach.service present)
* it installs MOTD hooks, which run regularly
* it installs an apt hook, which is executed on every update and upgrade, and twice on installs

If one is not interested in UA services, these are wasted resources, and provide an incentive to remove ubuntu-minimal from systems.

[wontfix (wontfix)]

Just to add, the file listed at https://ubuntu.com/legal/motd to combat this package's "feature" since it cannot be removed, no longer exists in Jammy, 22.04.

[Jeremy Bícha (jbicha)]

@wontfix, install motd-news-config if you need to configure that file. It's installed by default on Ubuntu Server; I don't believe it's needed on Ubuntu Desktop.

Sorry, ubuntu-advantage-tools is required to allow people to use Ubuntu Advantage or Ubuntu Pro. It is required for the Ubuntu product to work as intended so we're not going to make it optional.

[Bartłomiej Żogała (nusch)]

>It is required for the Ubuntu product to work as intended so we're not going to make it optional.
Could you make it clear what means 'as intended' ? As most users are not interested in this, are you bound by some state actor to track users ? This would be clear signal for users to search for alternative distro.

[Jeremy Bícha (jbicha)]

People must be allowed to upgrade their Ubuntu LTS install to get the 10 years of Extended Security Maintenance support offered by Ubuntu Advantage or Ubuntu Pro. This needs to work easily for everyone running Ubuntu. That is done with ubuntu-advantage-tools so that's why it's installed and not intended to be removed.

The information collection you are referring to is not handled by ubuntu-advantage-tools. You would need to file a separate bug about that issue, preferably with a test case of what isn't working correctly.

[Bartłomiej Żogała (nusch)]

Why 'apt-get install ubuntu-extended-support' or similar isn't considered simple there and you prefer to redefine meaning of 'minimal' instead ?

[Jeremy Bícha (jbicha)]

Because you don't need to use apt-get to use Ubuntu.

[Bartłomiej Żogała (nusch)]

So how would you like to identify and mark computers eligible for extended
support without user interaction ? And if user interaction is required why
can't you use the same launch method for installing extended support ?
And why installing 2.6Mbyes of logic on _all_ ubuntu instead of simple
eligibility check script which would do further job only if required ?

On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 10:36 PM Jeremy Bicha <email address hidden>
wrote:

> Because you don't need to use apt-get to use Ubuntu.
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1930914
>
> Title:
> ubuntu-minimal depends on ubuntu-advantage-tools
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/1930914/+subscriptions
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>

[Jeremy Bícha (jbicha)]

We are prioritizing people being able to easily activate Ubuntu Advantage/Ubuntu Pro more than people who worry about 2.6 MB. People who activate Ubuntu Advantage are generally paying customers. Those paying customers make Ubuntu better for all of us by helping to fund a lot of the work done in Ubuntu.

Respectfully, I don't think there's any benefit to me continuing to explain why we made this decision.

[Bartłomiej Żogała (nusch)]

It's not about 2.6Mb storage space taken. It's about what those 2.6Mb of logic does, how transparent the whole process is and how many potential security vulnerabilities it may introduce due to not having one transparent entry point for activation. You are exactly following Microsoft way to telemetry, where there are multiple toggles around the system but telemetry is already so deeply integrated that you never can be sure if it was completely disabled.

You do benefit not only from your paying customers base but from entire open source community work up to day. Including this portal and all feedback passed automatically/manually from users which run Ubuntu on their hardware. So saying that you don't care about non paying customers and trying to silence further discussion seems a bit arrogant here.

Isn't the fact that you have separate restricted repository backed on the same concept of lack of full trust ? There is whole group of people who e.g don't have Nvidia software on their hardware and they have a choice, why they shouldn't have the same choice with Canonical software ?

[Sky (sky-lake)]

ubuntu-minimal should absolutely not force install of ubuntu-advantage-tools. We're being force fed CLI ads via ubuntu-advantage-tools and we HATE it. This package should at best be a 'recommends', and even then, probably not.

I have no need of this spammy software, and yet I'm forced to remove the entire meta package if I don't want it?!

This is what a mass exodus of users sounds like.

[Aaron Renny Varghese (aarontechnic)]

I agree with Jeremy Bicha here. Canonical needs to make money and those ads aren't spammy at all. However I do want to see an option to turn Ubuntu Advantage/Pro and promotional content off, for those who don't want it.

[Sky (sky-lake)]

vi0oss came up with a clever workaround for getting this spamware off our systems.

> Can it be overridden with an additional package which Provides, Breaks and Conflicts with ubuntu-advantage-tools?
(From this comment https://old.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/yg97tk/ubuntu_includes_ads_in_system_update_theyre/iuj7hug/ -- I went ahead and attached the deb here for posterity, but it's also in that thread)

So far the deb they created is working for me.

Long term solution being to switch to a distro that respects their users.

[Matthew J. Hill (matthew-j-hill)]

This is indeed a defect--marking it "wontfix" is not helpful.

[Bartłomiej Żogała (nusch)]

@sky-lake @vi0oss unfortunately
after doing
sudo dpkg -P --force-depends ubuntu-advantage-tools
sudo rm -rf /etc/ubuntu-advantage
and dpkg -i fake-ubuntu-advantage-tools.deb
on recent version I'm getting version specific dependency when doing apt-get upgrade:
 software-properties-gtk : Requires: ubuntu-advantage-tools (>= 27.11~)
any clues ?

[Sky (sky-lake)]

I don't know it will make any difference or not, but FYI I've been installing it this way:
apt install ./fake-ubuntu-advantage-tools.deb

[Bartłomiej Żogała (nusch)]

Doesn't really matter as package is installed both ways, only that all dependencies need to be resolved later on. I've tried your method and it suggest to remove ubuntu-desktop-minimal and software-properties-gtk - which is not a solution here. IMHO the software-properties need also seperated version or just removal of the dependency if python code handles this properly. This is due to UbuntuPro tab in this window:

[Sky (sky-lake)]

@Bartłomiej Żogała (nusch) -- turns out this was to due a dependency update: https://old.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/yg97tk/ubuntu_includes_ads_in_system_update_theyre/jbxyq01/

There's a new version of the fake-ubuntu-advantage-tools package to fix this here: https://github.com/Skyedra/UnspamifyUbuntu

[Oli (oli)]

I think we all understand the direction here, Jeremy. You don't care about non-paying users.

I'm not sure what being an Ubuntu Member means any more but what the point if part of that isn't speaking out when there's a problem, and I have to say that removing freedoms from users is about as big a problem as it gets for FOSS, especially when the leverage is commercial gain.

What situation or mechanism are we imagining where somebody on an ubuntu-minimal base can't apt install ubuntu-advantage-tools if they want ubuntu-advantage-tools? I've no problem with it being bundled in, an installer question, but as soon as you say "oh you can't get rid of that", you're not compliant to me. You're telling me what I can and can't do with my installation, and for no good reason.

I'm writing this now because I've had pushback from client netadmins demanding to know why these installations are individually phoning home on a regular basis. Yes I have sensitive clients, they do sensitive work. So now I have a choice, I either have to hack around your work to botch it and hope that an update doesn't fix it, or we can't use Ubuntu.

[Eilidh Martin (eilidhmax)]

There's a difference between "this package is required to allow people to use our paid services" and "this package spams everyone who doesn't pay for our paid services". This flies in the face of the whole ethos of free software imo.

[PowerKiKi (adrien-crivelli)]

I wouldn't even mind if the package was installed by default, but easily uninstallable. It is unfortunately not the case, since it prompts that it will also remove `xubuntu-desktop`, amongst many other packages.

[Michel-Ekimia (michel.ekimia)]

Hi,

Very interesting bug on how Canonical destroy the Ubuntu community just "because the don't care"

I guess we should stop wasting our customers and time to fix ubuntu pro and move to something else.

[mkoniecz (matkoniecz)]

This is just malicious. You are not only packacking Ubuntu as adware, you are making it deliberately harder to unbreak for people interested specifically in spam removal.

While Ubuntu with easily removed ads would be still adware it would be at least less annoying for people wishing to fix it.

And here you make deliberately harder to remove ads, despite that it would already requires tinkering not done by vast majority of people.

[mkoniecz (matkoniecz)]

> Canonical needs to make money and those ads aren't spammy at all.

I get ads on every single SSH login, that is incredibly spammy. Currently for me that is majority of ad consumption and I will get rid of it even if it means migration of several servers I am managing to a different OS.