Comment 32 for bug 882274

Tal Liron (emblem-parade) wrote :

On 10/30/2011 04:58 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> It doesn't feel good, no. What is missing is a mutual willingness to
> agree to disagree and continue to work together.

So, what are we left with?

You've acknowledged that there is a problem with community engagement, however it doesn't seem overly serious to you. You see it mostly as a distraction, a time waste.

As for the causes of the problem, you've put them squarely on a few community members. You do not think the Ubuntu project is mismanaging the community. In fact, you are rightfully proud of the effort that has been done so far to keep the community involved.

Even if the Ubuntu project is not part of the problem, you are still not interested in doing any more work to alleviate it. You've ignored all suggestions offered for FAQs, for increased detail in responses, and for changing the tone of responses.

In summary, this is yet another "won't fix" bug. Community engagement might not be optimal, you acknowledge, but there's nothing the Unity team is going to do about it.

As with other closed bugs, I'll move on and keep trusting in you and the team to deliver the future. It's been terrific so far. And, when a bug is too serious for me to just move on (the multi-monitor issue, for example) I'll research a workaround and post it to Ubuntu Forums, like I always do. I feel a little dirty doing so (my preference is always to open a formal bug) but I'm happy to do what it takes to help other Ubuntu users around the pain points that crop up once in a while.

I wish I could be more involved, but I'm already overly extended in mine and other free software projects, consulting, and university studies. I can only afford to be an active "outsider" at this point. I know you dislike the distinction between "inside" and "out," and I do, too, but I think it's a necessary consequence of this bug that we're all going to have to live with.

The fact is that many of us do not feel included or valued. Or rather, it's that we're valued only if we do exactly what would qualify us to become "insiders." This statement of yours is the essence of this sentiment:

> I'm just unimpressed by people who grandstand about a particular bug
> when they could be helping to fix others with that energy.

See, some of us think that reporting bugs is actually a very valuable use of energy. And what you call "grandstanding," some of us would call advocacy. You've set a bar here to impress you, and it's higher than what most of us can afford to reach. We can't all join the Unity team, and I can't believe you would even want that. It would be interesting to hear from you (perhaps in a blog post?) what you think the role of a productive, constructive, supportive Ubuntu community would be.

I've read almost every comment the community has posted on these issues, on forums, blogs and Launchpad, and despite the occasional vitriol, I have to say that I am quite proud to be a part of it. Even when we feel that we are outsiders, most of us continue to have a stake in Ubuntu's success, and do what we can within our time limits and skills to make it better. You call it "nagging" -- I see it as passion for Ubuntu. Perhaps even a passion for freedom.

As you recommend, I'm going to stop putting time into this and redirect my efforts elsewhere. The free software I work on is not directly for Ubuntu, but it is part of the grand free ecology to which it belongs. I'm an "outsider," but I think I do good for it.

Thanks, Mark. I really appreciate the personal attention you've given this bug. We'll agree to disagree, as you say, and I'll stay hoping on my end that some of the issues we've raised here will stay with you and have a constructive effect.