New characters in Lao keymap

[Jeroen T. Vermeulen]

There are two new characters in the Lao keyboard layout that Ubuntu does not yet support. They are both combined characters. From Unicode:

 0EDC ໝLAO HO NO = 0EAB ຫ 0E99 ນ
 0EDD ໜ LAO HO MO = 0EAB ຫ 0EA1 ມ

I'm attaching a picture of the new keyboard layout as provided to me by community members. The new characters are in the shift-O and shift-, positions, respectively.

[Arne Goetje (arnegoetje)]

According to which standard is this new keyboard layout? I couldn't find it published online.
And the current XKB Lao keyboard looks much different than the one in your attachment. So, I'm a bit confused. Need some clarification here.

[Jeroen T. Vermeulen (jtv)]

Os555 sent me a whole bunch of documentation, attached here.

[Arne Goetje (arnegoetje)]

ok, so the new keyboard layout looks a bit different than what we currently have. It's not just exchanging two letters, but a few more. The current layout doesn't even follow the old Typewriter layout, but seems to be an individual layout used by some group of people in Laos... I thnk the best way to deal with this is to make a new alternate layout and let the user choose. Also, I would like to hear from the local community in Laos, which layout they prefer as primary choice.

[Arne Goetje (arnegoetje)]

The two "new" letters btw., are currently on '\' and Shift+'\'. So, Ubuntu does support them, they are just in a different position. :)

[Arne Goetje (arnegoetje)]

I have added the keyboard layout in my branch... however, I get a XKB error message when trying to add that keyboard layout, so it seems there is still something missing... does anyone here know more about adding keyboard layouts to XKB?

[Arne Goetje (arnegoetje)]

OK, so that's bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/67188 biting me here...

[Arne Goetje (arnegoetje)]

OK, I've added a new version of this package to my PPA:
https://edge.launchpad.net/~arnegoetje/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=lucid

The new keyboard layout has been implemented as an alternative to the existing one and is named "Laos - STEA (proposed standard layout)". It follows the proposed standard with one exception: in the proposed standard several keys have two combining codepoints in their SHIFT position. Since this is not supported in XKB, those positions have been left blank. You can achive the same result by pressing the two respective keys with their combining character assigned.

For example:
The key 'SHIFT+A' in the proposed standard has the combination U+0EB1 followed by U+0EC9 (LAO VOWEL SIGN MAI KAN + LAO TONE MAI THO). You can get the same result by pressing 'A' (LAO VOWEL SIGN MAI KAN), followed by the key 'H' (LAO TONE MAI THO).

Please help testing the new layout, by installing the package from my PPA (for Lucid) and leave some comment here. If you are satisfied, I will upload the package to the archive.

If the keyboard layout(s) should be renamed, please also mention this here.

Thanks a lot.

[ທະນະວໍລະກິດ ກ. (au8ust)]

Hm... I'm not quite sure what are you trying to do. So your problem is now
fixed?

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Arne Goetje <email address hidden>wrote:

> OK, I've added a new version of this package to my PPA:
>
> https://edge.launchpad.net/~arnegoetje/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=lucid<https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Earnegoetje/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=lucid>
>
> The new keyboard layout has been implemented as an alternative to the
> existing one and is named "Laos - STEA (proposed standard layout)". It
> follows the proposed standard with one exception: in the proposed
> standard several keys have two combining codepoints in their SHIFT
> position. Since this is not supported in XKB, those positions have been
> left blank. You can achive the same result by pressing the two
> respective keys with their combining character assigned.
>
> For example:
> The key 'SHIFT+A' in the proposed standard has the combination U+0EB1
> followed by U+0EC9 (LAO VOWEL SIGN MAI KAN + LAO TONE MAI THO). You can get
> the same result by pressing 'A' (LAO VOWEL SIGN MAI KAN), followed by the
> key 'H' (LAO TONE MAI THO).
>
> Please help testing the new layout, by installing the package from my
> PPA (for Lucid) and leave some comment here. If you are satisfied, I
> will upload the package to the archive.
>
> If the keyboard layout(s) should be renamed, please also mention this
> here.
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> ** Changed in: xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu)
> Status: In Progress => Fix Committed
>
> ** Branch linked: lp:~arnegoetje/xkeyboard-config/xkeyboard-config-arne
>
> --
> New characters in Lao keymap
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/341741
> You received this bug notification because you are a member of
> ທີມງານເພື່ອພັດທະນາ ພາສາ ລາວ ອຸບັນຕູ / Ubuntu Lao Translators, which is a
> direct subscriber.
>

[Arne Goetje (arnegoetje)]

Thanavorakit Kounthawatphinyo wrote:
> Hm... I'm not quite sure what are you trying to do. So your problem is now
> fixed?

Well, the request was to have the new keyboard layout, which has been
proposed to become the national standard in Laos. And that's what I did,
with the limitation I mentioned in my previous comment. The bug I've
cited was not really a bug, but the complaint that XKB cannot handle
multiple codepoints on a single key. Sorry for the confusion.

So, please let me know if the new layout is acceptable to the community,
or not.

Cheers
Arne

[ທະນະວໍລະກິດ ກ. (au8ust)]

I see. Well, I realized about the limitation of XKB when I was trying to do
the same thing a year ago.

Regarding the new layout, I haven't try it yet since I'm using Windows and
have been away from Linux for a year now. So better wait for someone else.

Cheers!
TK

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Arne Goetje <email address hidden>wrote:

> Thanavorakit Kounthawatphinyo wrote:
> > Hm... I'm not quite sure what are you trying to do. So your problem is
> now
> > fixed?
>
> Well, the request was to have the new keyboard layout, which has been
> proposed to become the national standard in Laos. And that's what I did,
> with the limitation I mentioned in my previous comment. The bug I've
> cited was not really a bug, but the complaint that XKB cannot handle
> multiple codepoints on a single key. Sorry for the confusion.
>
> So, please let me know if the new layout is acceptable to the community,
> or not.
>
> Cheers
> Arne
>
> --
> New characters in Lao keymap
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/341741
> You received this bug notification because you are a member of
> ທີມງານເພື່ອພັດທະນາ ພາສາ ລາວ ອຸບັນຕູ / Ubuntu Lao Translators, which is a
> direct subscriber.
>

[Anousak (anousak)]

I see this problem. As I was the one that submitted the original (Xkb). I will re-submit this for a fix to Ubuntu and the X.org again.

Regards,
Anousak

[bountonw (bountonw)]

Hello,

I don't know how I got on this list. But I am using ubuntu linux, mac and
Windows to type Lao. We have no end of troubles with word wrapping etc. If
there is something that we could help to test, I would love to help.

At one time I submitted a request to include a small 'x' that vowels could
attach to as seen in all older Lao grammars. Not sure if that was this list
or another list, it was several years ago.

Also allowing for the "ia" symbol to come at the end of a syllable would be
good for older texts. (Actually there are several older Lao characters that
could be included, but that is probably not for here.)

I will be in Laos next week, but even before then, I have 3 Lao workers and
we would love to help in any way we can. (We are located in Thailand.)

Brian Wilson

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Arne Goetje <email address hidden>wrote:

> Thanavorakit Kounthawatphinyo wrote:
> > Hm... I'm not quite sure what are you trying to do. So your problem is
> now
> > fixed?
>
> Well, the request was to have the new keyboard layout, which has been
> proposed to become the national standard in Laos. And that's what I did,
> with the limitation I mentioned in my previous comment. The bug I've
> cited was not really a bug, but the complaint that XKB cannot handle
> multiple codepoints on a single key. Sorry for the confusion.
>
> So, please let me know if the new layout is acceptable to the community,
> or not.
>
> Cheers
> Arne
>
> --
> New characters in Lao keymap
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/341741
> You received this bug notification because you are a member of
> ທີມງານເພື່ອພັດທະນາ ພາສາ ລາວ ອຸບັນຕູ / Ubuntu Lao Translators, which is a
> direct subscriber.
>

--
Brian Wilson, Director
Asia-Pacific International University Translation Center
_____________

I have a new blog!! http://tc4asia.org/wpblog

"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of
thee , but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy
God." Micah 6:8

[Arne Goetje (arnegoetje)]

@Anousak:
Is the proposed keyboard layout OK? If yes, I can submit a patch to Ubuntu before 9.04 release. Is it better to keep the new keyboard layout separated, so that users can choose, or shall I just overwrite the existing Lao layout? Shall the name be changed?

@Brian (bountonw): If you have problems with word-wrapping or anything else language related, it would be great if you could test these issues with the latest ISO images of Ubuntu Lucid, and keep a wikipage on wiki.ubuntu.com to track those issues. Also, if you notice specific applications or packages misbehaving, please consider filing bug reports against those packages (or "Ubuntu", if you don't know which package is of fault) and describe the issues as detailed as possible (what is expected? What is actually displayed? screenshots, steps to reproduce the problem, documents to illustrate and test the issue, etc.)

This would help us greatly to improve Lao language support in Ubuntu.

[Arne Goetje (arnegoetje)]

Arne Goetje wrote:
> If yes, I can submit a patch to Ubuntu before 9.04 release.

err, 10.04, that is... :)

Cheers
Arne

[Anousak (anousak)]

Arne,

The only issue right is now is add two combined characters:
 0EDC ໝLAO HO NO = 0EAB ຫ 0E99 ນ
 0EDD ໜ LAO HO MO = 0EAB ຫ 0EA1 ມ

For these or any other combined vowel and tonemark that was done through proriety softwar cannot be done through xkb (such as it has some limitations as mentioned).

Quote:
For example:
The key 'SHIFT+A' in the proposed standard has the combination U+0EB1 followed by U+0EC9 (LAO VOWEL SIGN MAI KAN + LAO TONE MAI THO). You can get the same result by pressing 'A' (LAO VOWEL SIGN MAI KAN), followed by the key 'H' (LAO TONE MAI THO).

Arne said:
shall I just overwrite the existing Lao layout?
I will submit the new xkb with minor changes and it can be replaced the old one.

regards,
Anousak

[Launchpad Janitor (janitor)]

This bug was fixed in the package xkeyboard-config - 1.8-1ubuntu2

---------------
xkeyboard-config (1.8-1ubuntu2) lucid; urgency=low

  [Arne Goetje]
  * Add 108_taiwan.patch: New keyboard layouts for Taiwan.
  * Add 107_lao.patch: New keyboard layout for Lao, implemented as
    an alternative to the default one. (LP: #341741)
 -- Bryce Harrington <email address hidden> Mon, 29 Mar 2010 19:11:44 -0700

[Anousak (anousak)]

Please find attached zip file contained xkb definitions (lo) for Lao language and keyboard layout. This xkb has been tested under Ubuntu 9.10 and is function perfectly.

[Anousak (anousak)]

Hi,

Just attached new Lao xkb definitions which contained those two characters and some other minors fixes.
Thank for your kind attention.

Anousak

[devsmudger (devsmudger)]

wow.......... good new for ubuntu user :)

regards
thip
-----------------------
Devsmudger
linux_User ID 479269
ubuntu_user ID 24870
http://laoubuntu.com
"ເມື່ອເຊື່ອວ່າ ທຸກສິ່ງທີ່ກຳລັງເຫັນຄືຜົນຂອງເຫດ
ກໍ່ຕ້ອງເຊື່ອວ່າທຸກສິ່ງທີ່ກຳລັງກະທຳຄືເຫດຂອງຜົນ"
the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear.

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Anousak <email address hidden> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Just attached new Lao xkb definitions which contained those two characters
> and some other minors fixes.
> Thank for your kind attention.
>
> Anousak
>
> --
> New characters in Lao keymap
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/341741
> You received this bug notification because you are a member of
> ທີມງານເພື່ອພັດທະນາ ພາສາ ລາວ ອຸບັນຕູ / Ubuntu Lao Translators, which is a
> direct subscriber.
>

[devsmudger (devsmudger)]

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