Microsoft has a majority market share

Bug #1 reported by Mark Shuttleworth on 2004-08-20
This bug affects 2413 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
Clubdistro
Critical
Unassigned
Computer Science Ubuntu
Critical
Computer Science Ubuntu Bugs
EasyPeasy Overview
Critical
Jon Ramvi
Ichthux
Critical
Raphaël Pinson
JAK LINUX
Critical
Unassigned
LibreOffice
New
Undecided
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Linux
New
Undecided
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Linux Mint
Fix Released
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Neobot
Undecided
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Novabot
Undecided
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OpenOffice
In Progress
Undecided
maviya
ReactOS Core Operating System
Incomplete
Undecided
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Tabuntu
Critical
Tina Russell
The Linux OS Project
Critical
Unassigned
Tivion
Critical
Angel Guzman Maeso
Tv-Player
Undecided
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Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team
Critical
MFauzilkamil Zainuddin
Wine
Confirmed
Wishlist
dylan.NET
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dylan.NET.Reflection
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Arch Linux
New
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High
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In Progress
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Confirmed
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Tilix
High
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Ubuntu
Critical
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Declined for Edgy by Colin Watson
Declined for Feisty by Colin Watson
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openSUSE
In Progress
Undecided
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Bug Description

See Mark's closure comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834
------

Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to all."

"Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who couldn’t otherwise afford it – an advantage that’s keenly felt by individuals and organisations all over the world."
     * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy

Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic practices.

This bug is widely evident in the PC industry.

Steps to repeat:

    1. Visit a local PC store.
    2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software.

What happens:

Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre-installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be proprietary.

What should happen:

A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software.

     * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
     * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
     * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd

Sivan Greenberg (sivan) on 2004-12-21
description: updated

I am in 97% agree with us but, let's be fair and tell all that:
1. All the PC's for sale shoud be clean and, when I go to buy it, to decide what I want to have and the store to install it for me.
2. Ubuntu shoud be marketed in his way (the amazing way). It's an serious OS user-friendly, but, like all in his gang (well almost all distros) not idiot-friendly.
3. Totally agree with just one adnotation: The user itself must be upgrade it. :-)))

Here, in Romania, only the big magazines are selling the PC'es with windoze preinstaled, the little ones are selling their systems with Linux (various distros) but installed in a manner that makes the computer useless. :-))

Easily reproduceable in Southern California. I recently visited 3 different computer stores and could not find a single system running a free and open operating system. At one location, when I attempted to boot an Ubuntu LiveCD, I was asked to leave the premises! Shocking...I think the severity level very well could be raised on this one.

Cyphase (cyphase) wrote :

I was able to reproduce this problem in an average of 85% of the cases. Seeing as this flaw concerns over ~85% of the worlds computer users, I think it should be given the highest severity rating.

Changed in ubuntu:
status: New → Accepted
magilla (admin-seport) wrote :

This bug is extremely prevelant in Australia We may need aid packages!

My status: Currently working on bugfix

Fredric Solstad (ohdung) wrote :

This bug is dangerously widespread in Sweden as well.

My current status: Working on bugfix

seb-open2 (seb-open2) wrote :

In Belgium the bug is extremely widespread, so much that people don't see it as a bug anymore and accept it as a fact of life... Must fix...

Jarek Zgoda (jzgoda) wrote :

In Poland this bug is not as significant as elsewhere, as most of ready-made computers are sold with FreeDOS or some flavour of Linux (Aurox and Mandriva predominantly). The only exception are the laptops, where only HP and Acer sell notebooks without Microsoft software preinstalled.
Maybe this is because in Poland we aren't as rich as people in other countries?

Lam (lam-lac) wrote :

I strongly disagree with Jarek. Of course, Poles are poor. It's true we buy computers with DOS (but rather DR-DOS to make it more "legal") or even Linux, but let's face the facts - the first thing people do on their new computers is installing pirated Windows copies. So the bug is even more significant, only not so obviously seen in PC stores. More significant because elsewhere (in more "civilised" countries) people can afford to buy Windows, only we know they pay money which then is used to stop innovation in software (among other evil things), but in Poland people are not only making market for Windows (use illegaly at home, then make your boss buy it at the office, because Windows is what you want to work on), but also stealing software (which is not right even if for some reasons we don't like the software or company in question). In case of Windows, Microsoft is silently agreeing to steal it (due to reasons mentioned earlier), but it creates the wrong assumption in users' minds (that it's OK to steal software at home, because we can't afford it). What people doesn't _realize_ is the fact that all of their computer work can be done with free software. I'm not talking about proffessionals using some bizzarre advanced tools. I'm talking about people using computers to browse web, send e-mail, talk to friends and print few pages a day at work. So this is the bugfix - end user education. Working on it :)

Alexandre Otto Strube (surak) wrote :

Here in Brazil there is a manufacturer which is starting to distribute a custom Ubuntu as its default operating system option!

Zeus (zeussama) wrote :

Here in Indonesia the bug is very serious widespreaded. We trying hard to fix the bug.

Couple months ago, Microsoft Indonesia sweeped all internet cafe that using illegal copy of Windows, after that moment most of internet cafe using Linux as it's operating system. It's a good start to introducing Linux to Indonesian.

Now, most of Computers store installed Linux in newly build computers (including laptop).

abdulmueid (abdul-mueid) wrote :

In Mozambique, Africa computers are not so widespread, let alone Windows or Ubuntu. All the computer shops that I know have Windows pre-installed on it (mostly pirated). Linux is only known to ISP's and companies that need a fileserver.
The bug hasnt got a stronghold here yet since there aren't as many computers. A little help from outside might just stop the bug before it can infest everywhere.

Sekt fault (the-pulse) wrote :

I think this bug has been introduced by a design mistake concerning the function create_software_industry(). It should have a variable parameter list rather than a sole pcompany attribute.

Lloyd Hardy (11811) wrote :

Until someone starts talking to Microsoft users, Ubuntu will never be in the high street.

Talk to hosting companies and it'll be in hosting companies. *Newsflash: The general public don't use hosting companies*

If we do not market to a wider audience, market opinion will never swing in our favour. The most you can get is what you ask for - you will never be given nore.

If you actually want to do something instead of sittng around and complaining, get the debate: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=73132

Lloyd Hardy (11811) wrote :

Scrub that - join the marketing team:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam

João Pio (joao-pio) wrote :

This bug is especially evident in Portugal. Most computer stores are barely aware anything not related to windows.
Most large computer store atendants will look strangelly if you ask them anything about linux. That or they will say that store does not support Linux at all.

Don't fool yourselves.
Most Computer stores in my country sell counterfit copies of windows, and even tho most stores make you pay for fake goods no one cares about that, not even microsoft. Babies grow up spoon fed by windows and they will one day be spoon fed windows adults.

If at all possible this bug could have to do with the inability, or disconfort in most peoples mind that seems to tell them that Microsoft windows works and Linux might not.

There should be a Forum in which people would put their success stories about what they installed and how. What is supported and what isn't. This is missing in practicly all distros I've seen.
We in the linux world must make sure people can find out if their computer works in Ubuntu.
Marketing needs to be planned. If you market your solution just because you have it, then if you fail your image is burnt.

Theo (launchpad-flame) wrote :

My little girl is six years old and spends hours on the computer playing educational games. Unfortunately the games she is interested in are only available on Microsoft - so as long as the suppliers of such software do not have the motivation to supply for the linux market the bug will perpetuate. That said, my little boy will be getting a motherboard, chassis, power supply, hard disk, cd/dvd drive and a linux cd when he turns six :-)

Boris de Laage (bbloup) wrote :

I can reproduce it too, in France, in either small shops & big supermarkets.

I'm working on a bugfix for several years, with many, many people.

Maybe this one will take some time to hunt. But I feel we're on the way.

Shane Volpe (shanevolpe) wrote :

I was able to repeat this bug in rural western Pennsylvania (USA) as well. Furthermore we have public schools that have not one open-source program installed on their computers!

I know there are open source projects out there for schools but is there an open source how-to or step-by-step program for integrating open source programs into a public school system?
Its great to have the software but we need a way to educate the educators on how to implement and use the software!

We should also have a how-to attack plan: This would cover how someone (like me, an open source advocate) approaches a local school about using open source.

Adam A. (musicman2059) wrote :

There's only one thing I have to say about this bug:

"lol"

I was able to reproduce in the UK. In fact, in one instance, I couldn't even get a PC with a blank HDD, nevermind with Linux on!

There is a big chance for the asian market to squash this bug. We can actally buy HP and IBM laptops with no Operating systems. Linux is currently making the news (along with Ubuntu) and UNDP-APDIP initiatives like the IOSN are helping to fix this bug.

PDT (venpandita) wrote :

I am able to reprodce it in Burma --- a South-East Asia country known for its main opposition leader and Nobel laureate, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi.

Our country has refused to sign the international copyright and patent laws up to now. So it is perfectly legal to use pirated software!(Mostly MS Windows and related products) Even MS, with its enormous legal team, cannot sue us!

There is almost no software industry here. PC clones are assembled and sold with pirated Windows, and any popular software you name, pre-installed by hardware vendors, who also undertake the responsibility of Windows help desk. All other software maintenance is done by users themseves by using manuals (pirated copies again!) and learning from private software courses.

However, things must change sooner or later. At the time when the International IP laws come into effective here, all computers in Burma would grind to a halt since very few would be able to afford license fees.

Who would help us to boot our computers at that time? Ubuntu, I hope.

B Gates (udo-hoerhold) wrote :

As far as I am concerned, this behavior works as expected. It should be marked as a feature, not a bug.

Jonathan Carter (jonathan) wrote :

If Steve Balmer can vow to kill Google, then I'm equally entitled to kill Microsoft. I will commit whatever free time I have to improve Ubuntu, and I won't rest until this bug is resolved.

Linoman (linoman) wrote :

I must ask a question, this bug that faces not only Ubuntu/Kubuntu etc but Linux in general what is it really caused by?

1) Is it caused by unfair practices by certian large businesses?
2) Is it caused by customers that do not know more about Linux?

We all know I guess that its caused by a combination of both. If Linux is to expand rapidly to the desktop user then more education is needed for the public. I live in South Africa (Western Cape) and here 99% of PC shops either just don't support Linux or for some reason have not heard of it.

Come on, lets educate people who do not know the joys of Linux and especially Ubuntu

I see this bug time to time. I am not talking about the average joe who doesn't even know what an OS is. But, I am talking about Computer Scientists. Yes, you heard me right. Fellow students in my Computer Science degree, are as addicted to Windows as Hippies were addicted to "LOVE" in the 60s ;-) . Our university(University of Southampton, UK), has invested a lot of time, money and effort into providing us with a room full of Linux PCs with latest hardware. Yet, we see students flocking to M$ Windows PCs.

Bug Fixes:

   1. User awareness/education - I am working on it. So far managed to convert my brother and four of my friends. Though, few revert to M$ often, due to hardware incompatibilities, with time these issues can be resolved.
   2. Advocate the fact the UBUNTU is free - Yes, your PC would be a lot cheaper if it wasn't for all the pre-installed software. May be with the saving you can afford better peripherals or even a high spec PC. As abdulmueid commented above[in bug#1's comments page], the use of Linux based computers is the only way for computers to become widely available in developing countries. Mmmm will they still be called developing countries then...
   3. Advertise in YELLOW Pages/Directory Listings for free Ubuntu consultations - LUGs are a good idea. But people are hesitant while venturing into the unknown(to them that is). So may be the LUGs can advertise, offering help in local news papers, TVs etc.
   4. Awareness initiatives - Government should allocate funds to create awareness among people. National Televisions should telecast programmes during prime time-slots, to advise people about the open source software. I think, people wouldn't want to break the law when there is a legal and free alternative. Why pirate MS Office when you can use Open Office? Why get all the spam, spy ware, virus?

Well, all this is my objectives for the future. I am just waiting for my chance. Until then I am just preparing myself and doing whatever I can to help.

"Small drops make the mighty ocean"

So do your bit to help....

-- Saru

MauricioHernandez (mhz) wrote :

In 2 opportunities I have visited the Technology Section of 3 big department stores in Chile (Falabella, Almacenes Paris and Ripley). I have requested to buy even the most powerful and expensive computer they have (either desktop or laptop) but with NO operating system.

After some minutes, the very motivated sales persons come back with sad face to inform me that their supervisors have not allowed the procedure because OS is already installed.

Incredible!

I suggest we organize the Ubuntu Request Day. What's that? Let's ask each ubuntu fan to go to a store one day (same for all over the world) and ask to buy a computer with Ubuntu (Kubuntu, Edubuntu, or maybe Debian installed).

Obviously, if by any case, the store agrees... we may have some excuses already planned :)

Popa Adrian Marius (mapopa) wrote :

We could ask vendors about machines without windows pre-installed
I have seen in my contry (Romania) that almost all laptops (90%)
are with windows home/pro already on them .
There are some vendors that give you choice :Acer and Siemens sell some models
with linux.

One intersting article related to this bug
"Early results of the (Dutch) Windows refund survey"
"Sometimes as a Linux user, you wish you could buy any computer with Linux preinstalled, or if that's not possible, just without an operating system, but that's not the reality. If that isn't possible, is it possible to buy any computer with Windows pre-installed, and then, return the unused Windows, and ask a refund for it? That's a question many non-Windows users ask themselves. The answer however, isn't clear to consumers. There's only one way to find out: ask your hardware manufacturer. Or do they neither know the answer? Time to find out."

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/49036/index.html

Nal (nalshdat) wrote :

Ok I found a major part of this bug. I finaly confinced a friend to go to linux, in the form of ubuntu. He LOVED it. Couldn't stop talking about the speed and ease of use and all that. Then it happened. We went to install a game. When it didn't work he looked at me and asked how do I get my games working. I then told him for most games you can use Cedega or wine, but some don't work at all yet, you also need no cd cracks for some also. At the point he looked at me and said, wait you mean I have to buy a program to get most my games working..then some wont work..and some that do I have to use a no cd crack....Just install windows. I would rather have all my games working. So there you have it. We fix this gameing prob and we can get more users. Most that I see switch right back when they find out about games and linux. They dont want to have to install new stuf then hope their game is supported. If we can some how make it work out the box on all games like windows we will be set.

Jason Woyak (woyakj) wrote :

I completely agree with Nal's comment about games, with one slight change. I don't think the problem is getting games to work in Linux. I think the REAL problem is getting game designers to make a Linux version of their games (shipped on the SAME CD..) Why not? Just have 3 folders: DATA (for the game data files, Windows (for the windows runtimes) and Linux (for the Linux runtimes). That way save files from the games would transer easily, MORE people would buy the games (think of how much community support whichever company was the first to implement and advertise this would get!), and people that don't know any better could still just put in the CD and hit Install. Obviously there are A LOT of details to work out here, but I think that if Mark Shuttleworth wants to advance opensource, he should try kicking a large amount of money toward the first company like EA or Activision that would be willing to have static-compiled linux binaries of their games included on the CD. Even ONE of their popular games to start out. That game would sell MANY more copies that it otherwise would, and if it was implemented in such a way that followed software standards, EVERYONE would win (the game company who would sell more games and get LOTS of great PR on sites like Slashdot, the End User who would really get a fair choice of desktop os AND get to play the hot new game title, and the OSS community who would get a HUGE amount of exposure to people who would otherwise not be as interested). How about World of Warcraft?! My $0.02

Bandit (bandit) wrote :

This must be the biggest bug of all. I have been to many contries through out the world and have been to almost every major city in the USA. This is defently a confirmed bug.
M$ has plagued the entire world like a out of control virus spreading there software on the un-knowing. Their evil business practices have brought them market dominance and thus this bug must be eleminated.
I vote this bug must have the highest priority and I will also continue to assist in eleminating virus as well.

Jim McCormick (rantman-2000) wrote :

Present on my university campus, too. While a lot of the backend uses Mac OS X, most of the student-accessable computers are running some form of MS operating system. One lab offers an older version of Gentoo as an option, but it's the only place where I can use a free system on campus other than my dorm room. Furthermore, due to drastic price cuts (the school has a contract with Microsoft to allow their students onto the local "site license" for 10x the cost of media), there's little incentive for things to change.

I have been recommending free software to anyone who comes to me looking for computer help, and have even distributed LiveCDs of Ubuntu to anyone who comes to me for technical support in an effort to get people to consider leaving Windows.

dwerf (douwe) wrote :

Yep, in the Netherlands this is a major bug. The vast majority of system deals include the SMODNIM-system (get it? It's Window's newest nickname).

I'm amazed at how hard to kill this bug is. Most nonbelievers are totally focussed on the disadvantages of Linux, but I made my dad swap to Linux and I'm talking many unhappy SMODNIM-users into letting me install that system that is so good "and this is for free?"

People really liked Firefox and Thunderbird and really feel the difference and the vibe the open source community can give. SMODNIM should be very afraid, because people are switching!

Tom Oldani (txo8933) wrote :

Indeed, games are strongly affected by this bug. I would like to add a few suggestions. First off, go to garagegames.com, and buy some of the linux games. The games there are all very high quality despite being low-budget. Second, if you're a game developer, consider using a multi-platform OpenGL engine for your game, as opposed to DirectX. Third, if you're a linux developer, find a way to distribute programs in such a way as to not require a separate binary for every distro/processor combo out there! These files should be easy to use and install, and should not necessitate compiling. Some people might not want to release their source.

This generalised bug is persistent. Microsoft trains its salesforce to learn about GNU/Linux and use arguments against it.
As of the tasks to overcome the current situation I dare to propose:
1. make GNU/Linux and between them Ubuntu distributions be known using a ear-to-ear strategy
2. make Ubuntu distributions easy to configure and to update, for breaking the myth GNU/Linux requires technical or plenty-of-free-time users
3. ensure as many language tranlations as possible, giving the opportunity to feel confident by using an own language version to more people
4. make Ubuntu become widespread so that people know there is the possibility to choose - usually many do not even know that free sotware exists
5. focus on more "convertable" users:
5.1. business are not likely to switch easily but administrations or educational institutes might;
5.2. the younger seem to be more attracted than the elder; 5.3. emerging and poorer countries have more potential of growth if distributions are suitable to the hardware and telecoms options

And probably more, but we should focus on those at least.
In order to start, each of us can contribute to the distribution evolution, install at our homes, worksplaces if allowed and firends computers. This cold be the best advertisment campaign.

Uwe Beutin (scrambler) wrote :

In German schools it is becoming nightmarish... kids are actually taking so-called Computer Classes and the first courses they can get their hands on is M$ Excel and Word because that is, they learn, what a Computer is All About! It seems as we are rather losing the knowledge of what a computer actually is; for our kids do not ever grasp the fact that what they are learning is bullsh.. and has nothing to do with computers. So I believe this bug is even more serious than we might have imagined...

Mantas Kriaučiūnas (mantas) wrote :

Bug #29194 has Lithuanian translation of this bug, but bug #29194 is targeted to Baltic states (Lithuania and Latvia).
Also there is an issue with standards and document formats - government institutions and public sector shouldn't force users to use closed formats and non-free software, but currently lots of info in government institution web pages are only in closed document formats, like Microsoft Office (.doc or .xls).

Mark Shuttleworth worte:
"Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally."

Uh, so is Rosetta, Malone, and the whole launchpad is holding back innovation too? ;-)

nelwa (adriaan-nellen) wrote :

There are many reasons that causes MS to dominate the software market. In my opinion the following issues must be addressed by the Open Source community before they can even consider to appeal to the masses.
<ol><li>User Friendliness - When have you ever had to execute a command in terminal to do something in Windows....commands are for geeks - write a visual app for everything</li><li>Third party software support - This will naturally follow after (1.) is implemented - but think of all the apps that gets used in a business environment that has no linux support - Adobe, Macromedia, etc</li><li>Games + Entertainment - Everyone who's ever got a new cellphone should have realised before that things don't really sell on their usefull features, but more on their entertainment related features</li></ol>Implement these things into Ubuntu, and it will appeal to the masses!

nelwa (adriaan-nellen) wrote :

here follows my post again without html tags:

There are many reasons that causes MS to dominate the software market. In my opinion the following issues must be addressed by the Open Source community before they can even consider to appeal to the masses.

1. User Friendliness - When have you ever had to execute a command in terminal to do something in Windows....commands are for geeks - write a visual app for everything

2. Third party software support - This will naturally follow after (1.) is implemented - but think of all the apps that gets used in a business environment that has no linux support - Adobe, Macromedia, etc

3. Games + Entertainment - Everyone who's ever got a new cellphone should have realised before that things don't really sell on their usefull features, but more on their entertainment related features.

In conclusion: Implement these things into Ubuntu, and it will appeal to the masses!

Changed in sysvinit:
status: Unconfirmed → Rejected
Matthew Strait (quadong) on 2006-05-24
description: updated
description: updated
raul (jahyire2006) on 2006-07-19
Changed in ubuntu-express:
assignee: nobody → jahyire2006
Changed in ichthux:
assignee: nobody → raphink
importance: Untriaged → Critical
status: Unconfirmed → Confirmed
Changed in upstart:
status: Unconfirmed → Rejected
Changed in ubuntu-meta:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
sopsys (sopsys) on 2006-11-24
Changed in bum:
status: Rejected → Confirmed
Changed in ubuntu-express:
status: Rejected → Confirmed
d_jedi (spymac-sucks) on 2006-11-26
description: updated
d_jedi (spymac-sucks) on 2006-11-26
Changed in ubuntu-express:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
Changed in bum:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
Changed in ichthux:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
pirast (pirast) on 2006-11-26
description: updated
Changed in ubuntu-express:
status: Rejected → Confirmed
Changed in bum:
status: Rejected → Confirmed
Changed in ichthux:
status: Rejected → Confirmed
description: updated
d_jedi (spymac-sucks) on 2006-11-27
Changed in ichthux:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
Changed in bum:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
Changed in ubuntu-express:
status: Confirmed → Rejected
description: updated
description: updated
Munchkinguy (10068660) on 2007-01-01
Changed in ichthux:
status: Rejected → Confirmed
Changed in rosetta:
status: Unconfirmed → Rejected
1337 (neorser) on 2007-02-12
description: updated
description: updated
description: updated
description: updated
Conrad Knauer (atheoi) on 2007-02-13
description: updated
Changed in rosetta:
status: Rejected → Needs Info
status: Needs Info → Unconfirmed
Changed in rosetta:
status: Unconfirmed → Rejected
Alex M. Lowe (lengau) on 2007-03-25
Changed in firefox:
status: Unconfirmed → Fix Committed
Changed in openoffice:
status: Unconfirmed → Rejected
Changed in firefox:
status: Fix Committed → Rejected
Changed in jl:
assignee: nobody → juliank
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: Unconfirmed → Confirmed
Adrien Cunin (adri2000) on 2007-07-03
Changed in djplay:
status: New → Invalid
Changed in casper:
status: New → Invalid
D. Brodzik (amyrose) on 2007-10-03
Changed in openoffice:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
1898 comments hidden view all 1966 comments

Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. A lot of software depends on the win32 api, so wine should eventually have to be the most popular implementation of it.

This idea came from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 ;-)

This depends on having very good and complete documentation. Currently even though msdn contains many errors their documentation is more complete.

Actually the Wine source code is a much better documentation of the Win32 API than MSDN...

We can do it without extra documentation, we just have
to write lots of conformance tests to see how MS win32
behaves.

Setting "Difficulty" field.

Created attachment 8519
Windows API Documentation test

The Windows API Documentation test failed

Yes conformance tests are the first step. And yes the source code is good to find out what happens. But that is not a replacement for good documentation in written prose ( http://source.winehq.org/WineAPI/ ).

What is this bug about? Is it a joke to just take a bug with number 10000?
I'm tempted to close it as invalid.

Popularity is not a technical merit. Closing as invalid.

description: updated
Changed in tabuntu:
assignee: nobody → tinarussell
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → Confirmed
Changed in compscibuntu:
assignee: nobody → ozanichkovsky
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → Confirmed
assignee: ozanichkovsky → compscibuntu
assignee: compscibuntu → compscibuntu-bugs
d_jedi (spymac-sucks) on 2008-02-11
Changed in compscibuntu:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in ichthux:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in jl:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in tabuntu:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in openoffice:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
description: updated
Changed in compscibuntu:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Conrad Knauer (atheoi) on 2008-02-11
Changed in ichthux:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Changed in jl:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Changed in tabuntu:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Changed in openoffice:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Conrad Knauer (atheoi) on 2008-02-11
description: updated
Changed in rosetta:
status: Invalid → New
Changed in rosetta:
status: New → Invalid
Changed in linux:
status: New → Invalid

Think of this bug as a milestone rather than a conventional bug.

Changed in jl:
assignee: juliank → nobody
Changed in linux:
status: Invalid → Confirmed

*** Bug 13396 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Still an issue with wine-1.0.

Changed in clubuntu:
assignee: nobody → clubuntu
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → Confirmed
Bernhard (b.a.koenig) on 2008-08-16
Changed in openoffice:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Bernhard (b.a.koenig) on 2008-08-17
Changed in linux:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in kde-systemsettings:
status: New → Invalid
Sart (sart-ua) on 2008-10-16
Changed in linux:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
coreymon77 (coreymon77) on 2008-10-28
Changed in ubuntu-express:
status: Invalid → Confirmed

Still present in git.

Steve Langasek (vorlon) on 2009-02-20
Changed in bum:
status: Invalid → Won't Fix
Changed in casper:
status: Invalid → Won't Fix
Changed in djplay:
status: Invalid → Won't Fix
Changed in firefox:
status: Invalid → Won't Fix
Changed in ubuntu-express:
status: Confirmed → Won't Fix
manzur (sl-solaris) on 2009-02-28
description: updated
description: updated

I can confirm as of 1.1.16.

I can't reproduce this bug, and haven't been able to for about 5 years or so. Does anyone have steps to reproduce? I suspect it has something to do with me deleting my Windows install from my desktop ...

1. Visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
2. Note that the wedge devoted to Linux is too small to see with the naked eye.

You're such a buzzkill, Dan ;)

I can see the wedge fine, but it doesn't prove much. It's very difficult, if not impossible, to accurately measure OS shares, partly due to the fact that Linux is free so you can't go by number of sales/downloads.

With webservers logging user-agents, things like user-agent spoofing (User-Agent Switcher extension in Firefox, and built in to browsers like Opera and Konqueror) skew the results in favour of Windows. Even Wine Gecko will register as <insert Windows version here> in the user-agent string.

Regardless, this bug is not apparent *for me*. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but the alternative win32 implementation irritates me much more than Wine does :)

Web server access logs are a pretty good measure, and they show
that this bug is still definitely a problem. As you point out,
non-windows systems are now capable, but that wasn't the bug;
the bug is that fewer people are using them than are using Windows.
And that's demonstrably still true.

Changed in clubdistro:
assignee: clubuntu → nobody
Raphael Michel (rami) on 2009-04-17
Changed in openoffice:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
maviya (lh-maviya) on 2009-04-18
Changed in openoffice:
assignee: nobody → lh-maviya
Montel Edwards (montel) on 2009-06-18
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty):
assignee: raul (jahyire2006) → Montel Edwards (m.deonte)
status: Won't Fix → Confirmed

The Bug still present under 1.1.25. But not affect my life at all.

Hardcore solve (may can help someone, but can make also your life hard):
- make a list of at least ten friends using win32 api
- find out when they are not at home
- delete MS:W$
- install linux

Some of them may not see the diffrence. But after some time of using linux they may consider "hey, where is my bluescreen? And why my OS is working so fast? Where are my viruses?" etc. Than you can explain what you did. I suppose they won't install W$ again. But if The Bug returns - try again.

Hope it helped. Good luck!

Philip Morrell (emorrp1) on 2009-07-15
Changed in linuxmint:
importance: Undecided → Low
status: New → Confirmed
Changed in linuxmint:
importance: Low → High
status: Confirmed → Won't Fix
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty):
status: Confirmed → In Progress
security vulnerability: no → yes
security vulnerability: yes → no

Im using WindowsXP because of games.
Until games will be multi OS or games will work with Wine, I need both OS on PC :(.
 Question: In theory, can windows games can run faster or at least equal under Wine. If Wine and drivers would be optimized?

(In reply to comment #19)
> Until games will be multi OS or games will work with Wine, I need both OS on PC
> :(.

You may be interested in www.linuxgamepublishing.com.

> Question: In theory, can windows games can run faster or at least equal under
> Wine.

Yes and this does happen sometimes. In some cases, it's due to OpenGL running faster on Linux systems in general (typically thanks to nVidia's drivers) but other factors include better memory and process management in Linux compared to Windows.

Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Invalid
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu):
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in ubuntu:
assignee: nobody → Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)
status: Confirmed → In Progress
Jon Ramvi (ramvi) on 2009-11-04
description: updated
Jon Ramvi (ramvi) on 2009-11-04
description: updated
Changed in easypeasy-project:
assignee: nobody → Jon Ramvi (ramvi)
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → In Progress
Changed in tivion:
assignee: nobody → Angel Guzman Maeso (shakaran)
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → Confirmed
tags: added: iso-testing
Changed in clubdistro:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in compscibuntu:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in easypeasy-project:
status: In Progress → Invalid
Changed in ichthux:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in jl:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in openoffice:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in tabuntu:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Jon Ramvi (ramvi) on 2009-12-15
Changed in easypeasy-project:
status: Invalid → In Progress
Daniel Case (monotoko) on 2010-02-01
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty):
status: In Progress → Invalid
r12056 (r12056) on 2010-02-08
Changed in easypeasy-project:
status: In Progress → Invalid
Changed in tivion:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Linux000 (michael-yoyo) on 2010-03-11
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty):
status: Invalid → In Progress

This is obviously an excellent milestone goal.

Getting full support for Win32 standards to the vast majority of Alternative OSs will really be the first step towards this.

The main disadvantage right now is that people feel safe with their applications and don't want to switch them all to switch OSs.

Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Incomplete
Daniel Case (monotoko) on 2010-04-14
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty):
assignee: Montel Edwards (montel) → Monotoko (danielcase10)
Changed in ubuntu:
status: Incomplete → In Progress
Changed in baltix:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in linuxos:
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → In Progress
Changed in openoffice:
status: Invalid → In Progress
Changed in opensuse:
status: New → In Progress
Jerry Masslo II (jegi) on 2010-05-29
Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Fix Released
Changed in ubuntu:
status: Fix Released → In Progress
Amaeth (dfoxpro) on 2010-06-10
Changed in linux (Debian):
status: Confirmed → In Progress
Didier Roche (didrocks) on 2010-06-30
summary: - Microsoft has a majority market share
summary: + "Microsoft has a majority market share"
summary: - "Microsoft has a majority market share"
+ Microsoft has a majority market share
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty):
status: In Progress → Invalid
Sidnei da Silva (sidnei) on 2010-07-12
summary: - Microsoft has a majority market share
summary: + Microsoft has a majority market share
Lance4 (gero3977) on 2010-07-26
Changed in clubdistro:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
NoaHall (noah-co-uk) on 2010-08-29
Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Invalid
Changed in ubuntu:
status: Invalid → In Progress
Changed in gnome-screensaver:
status: Unknown → Won't Fix
Changed in gnome-screensaver:
importance: Unknown → Low
Changed in metacity:
importance: Unknown → Low
status: Unknown → In Progress
Changed in libreoffice:
assignee: nobody → Björn Michaelsen (bjoern-michaelsen)
status: New → In Progress
Dylan Borg (borgdylan) on 2011-05-11
Changed in dnr:
status: New → Confirmed
Changed in dylandotnet:
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → Confirmed
Changed in dnr:
importance: Undecided → Critical
Kẏra (thekyriarchy) on 2011-05-13
summary: - Microsoft has a majority market share
+ Proprietary operating systems have a majority market share
description: updated
Kẏra (thekyriarchy) on 2011-05-13
description: updated
summary: - Proprietary operating systems have a majority market share
+ Microsoft has a majority market share
description: updated
description: updated
Dylan Borg (borgdylan) on 2011-05-19
Changed in dylandotnet:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
Changed in dnr:
status: Confirmed → Invalid

Issue still persists in latest wine (1.3.20). Have not tried the solution proposed in comment 18 though.

Dylan Borg (borgdylan) on 2011-05-22
Changed in dylandotnet:
importance: Critical → Undecided
Changed in dnr:
importance: Critical → Undecided
status: Invalid → In Progress
Changed in dylandotnet:
status: Invalid → In Progress
Jon Loldrup (loldrup) on 2011-05-22
Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Invalid
status: Invalid → In Progress
JC Hulce (soaringsky) on 2011-05-28
Changed in ugr-meta:
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → In Progress
xaav (xaav) on 2011-06-15
Changed in compscibuntu:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
Changed in elementaryos:
assignee: nobody → Elementary-core (elementary-core)
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → In Progress
assignee: Elementary-core (elementary-core) → The elementary Project (elementaryproject)
Changed in elementaryos:
importance: Critical → Low
Dylan Borg (borgdylan) on 2011-06-23
Changed in dylandotnet:
status: In Progress → Invalid
Changed in ubuntu-express (Ubuntu):
status: Invalid → In Progress
Allen Lowe (lallenlowe) on 2011-06-28
Changed in elementaryos:
importance: Low → Medium
Dylan Borg (borgdylan) on 2011-07-09
Changed in dnr:
status: In Progress → Invalid
Ivo Nunes (ivonunes) on 2011-07-16
Changed in gen-os:
assignee: nobody → GenOS Team (gen-os)
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → In Progress
Daniel Fore (danrabbit) on 2011-07-29
Changed in elementaryos:
status: In Progress → Invalid
Vish (vish) on 2011-07-30
affects: elementaryos → null
Changed in null:
assignee: The elementary Project (elementaryproject) → nobody
Albert Pool (albertpool) on 2011-08-03
Changed in linuxmint:
status: New → In Progress
Curtis Hovey (sinzui) on 2011-11-11
no longer affects: null
Brad Figg (brad-figg) on 2011-11-14
tags: removed: iso-testing
tags: added: iso-testing
Vibhav Pant (vibhavp) on 2011-11-27
Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Confirmed
Changed in ubuntu:
status: Confirmed → In Progress
tags: removed: iso-testing
tags: added: iso-testing
tags: removed: iso-testing
Changed in gen-os:
assignee: Registry Administrators (registry) → nobody
no longer affects: gnome-screensaver
Curtis Hovey (sinzui) on 2011-12-18
no longer affects: gen-os
Changed in ubuntu-my:
assignee: nobody → MFauzilkamil Zainuddin (apogee)
importance: Undecided → Critical
status: New → In Progress
JC Hulce (soaringsky) on 2012-03-15
no longer affects: ugr-seeds

IMHO this should be closed WONTFIX as popularity shouldn't be a project goal purely on its own. I suppose "project goals" may be an interesting conversation to have at some point though.

Changed in tv-player:
status: New → Invalid
Nivth Ket (nivthk) on 2012-04-10
Changed in elementaryos:
status: New → Confirmed
Changed in archlinux:
status: New → Confirmed
Bruno (brunovam) on 2012-05-05
Changed in linux:
assignee: nobody → Bruno (brunovam)
Daniel Fore (danrabbit) on 2012-05-14
no longer affects: elementaryos
CSRedRat (csredrat) on 2012-08-20
tags: added: canonical microsoft
tags: added: iso-testing
summary: - Microsoft has a majority market share
+ Microsoft has a majority desktop market share
no longer affects: ubuntu-express (Ubuntu)
no longer affects: ubuntu-express (Ubuntu Jaunty)
no longer affects: Ubuntu Jaunty
Kẏra (thekyriarchy) on 2012-10-07
description: updated
summary: - Microsoft has a majority desktop market share
+ Proprietary operating systems have a majority market share
Randall Ross (randall) on 2012-11-12
summary: - Proprietary operating systems have a majority market share
+ Microsoft has a majority market share
description: updated
William Grant (wgrant) on 2013-01-03
no longer affects: metacity

This might be fixed already for ARM or will be fixed for ARM at some point, just have a look what's going on with Windows RT.

(In reply to comment #23)
> IMHO this should be closed WONTFIX as popularity shouldn't be a project goal
> purely on its own. I suppose "project goals" may be an interesting conversation
> to have at some point though.

I think we will close this as NOTABUG once Wine functions more reliably and accurately than the more popular Win32 platform, as then it will be an issue with the keyboard to chair interface, or more often the case, the controlling process of the keyboard to chair interface.

With the bugs pouring in on the latest version of that competing platform, with it's developer denying the existence of said bugs and even large companies like Valve refusing to work around those bugs, our job may have just gotten a lot easier.

tags: added: patch
Bruno (brunovam) on 2013-05-06
Changed in linux:
assignee: Bruno (brunovam) → nobody
Changed in ubuntu:
status: In Progress → Fix Released
Darth Sidious (zloklun) on 2013-05-30
information type: Public → Public Security
Luke Faraone (lfaraone) on 2013-05-30
no longer affects: Ubuntu Dapper
Martin Albisetti (beuno) on 2013-05-30
information type: Public Security → Public
description: updated
summary: - Microsoft has a majority market share
+ Ubuntu is too buggy to gain majority market share
summary: - Ubuntu is too buggy to gain majority market share
+ Ubuntu desktop is too buggy to gain majority market share
YannUbuntu (yannubuntu) on 2013-07-03
summary: - Ubuntu desktop is too buggy to gain majority market share
+ Microsoft has a majority market share
affects: linux (Fedora) → fedora
Changed in fedora:
status: New → Confirmed
affects: linux (Debian) → debian
tags: removed: iso-testing patch ubuntu
Changed in baltix:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
tags: added: iso-testing
tags: removed: iso-testing
tags: added: iso-testing

Comment on attachment 8519
Windows API Documentation test

What are we supposed to do with this bug because i don't think it's a real bug.

tags: added: package-qa-testing
Marco (ufficio-marco) on 2016-01-02
Changed in easypeasy-project:
status: Invalid → Confirmed
37 comments hidden view all 1966 comments
Luca Ciavatta (cialu) wrote :

I confirm this bug.
I visited some local PC stores (middle-sized city in Italy) and I attempted to buy a machine without any proprietary software.

All the computers on sale had proprietary software.

Download full text (5.5 KiB)

Hi :)
While this is still true and unlikely to change many people are using
chromebooks, tablets, phones and other devices to do things that they
previously would have had to use a desktop to do. Laptops have also become
much more popular too. A few years ago some study allegedly found that 80%
of computer usage is now done using tablets and phones.

For tablets and phones gnu&linux is king. Android is a flavour of
gnu&linux on a layer of java. Blackberry is gnu&linux, and of course
Chrome is too. iPads and iPhones, really anything Apple, is a flavour of
BSD, which is another unix-based system = practically a sister/brother of
gnu&linux. Apparently only about 1% of hand-helds (tablets and phones etc)
use a Windows-based system. Windows has one major disadvantage in trying
to run on hand-helds which is that it's a huge great big bloated behemoth
despite their best efforts at slashing it down-to-size. It just about
manages to cope on laptops but when they tried to push it onto netbooks it
performed so badly that it killed the entire netbook market. We see some
resurgence of the netbook market through Chromebooks but people are still
wary of that form-factor, thanks to Windows.

Windows are attempting to rewrite Windows to work on Arm chips, having
recently abandoned their earlier recent attempt, but it's likely they will
still need vast amounts of resources, such as one would reasonably expect
from a desktop/laptop - and still not work on other form-factors.

So wearables (incl watches) and handhelds, and chromebooks are likely to
keep using unix-based systems, usually specifically gnu&linux.

This bug was first raised when the word "desktop" covered all the
form-factors that could be used in small-business and by families or other
private usage. Nowadays the term "desktop", even if expanded to include
laptops, only represents under 20% of that market.

Regards from
Tom :)

On 13 December 2016 at 14:40, Luca Ciavatta <email address hidden> wrote:

> I confirm this bug.
> I visited some local PC stores (middle-sized city in Italy) and I
> attempted to buy a machine without any proprietary software.
>
> All the computers on sale had proprietary software.
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
>
> Title:
> Microsoft has a majority market share
>
> Status in Clubdistro:
> Confirmed
> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
> Status in LibreOffice:
> New
> Status in dylan.NET.Reflection:
> Invalid
> Status in dylan.NET:
> Invalid
> Status in EasyPeasy Overview:
> Confirmed
> Status in Ichthux:
> Invalid
> Status in JAK LINUX:
> Invalid
> Status in LibreOffice:
> In Progress
> Status in Skylinux:
> New
> Status in Linux Mint:
> In Progress
> Status in The Linux OS Project:
> In Progress
> Status in Neobot:
> New
> Status in Novabot:
> New
> Status in OpenOffice:
> In Progress
> Status in Tabuntu:
> Invalid
> Status in Tivion:
> Invalid
> Status in Tv-Player:
> Invalid
> Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team:
> In Progress
> Status in Wine:
> Unknown
> Status in Ubuntu:
> Fix Released
> Status in Arc...

Read more...

zakzor (zakzor) wrote :
Download full text (6.4 KiB)

"So wearables (incl watches) (...) are likely to keep using unix-based
systems, usually specifically gnu&linux."

Tizen is one of them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen

Regards,
zakzor

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 12:35 Tom <email address hidden> wrote:

> Hi :)
> While this is still true and unlikely to change many people are using
> chromebooks, tablets, phones and other devices to do things that they
> previously would have had to use a desktop to do. Laptops have also become
> much more popular too. A few years ago some study allegedly found that 80%
> of computer usage is now done using tablets and phones.
>
> For tablets and phones gnu&linux is king. Android is a flavour of
> gnu&linux on a layer of java. Blackberry is gnu&linux, and of course
> Chrome is too. iPads and iPhones, really anything Apple, is a flavour of
> BSD, which is another unix-based system = practically a sister/brother of
> gnu&linux. Apparently only about 1% of hand-helds (tablets and phones etc)
> use a Windows-based system. Windows has one major disadvantage in trying
> to run on hand-helds which is that it's a huge great big bloated behemoth
> despite their best efforts at slashing it down-to-size. It just about
> manages to cope on laptops but when they tried to push it onto netbooks it
> performed so badly that it killed the entire netbook market. We see some
> resurgence of the netbook market through Chromebooks but people are still
> wary of that form-factor, thanks to Windows.
>
> Windows are attempting to rewrite Windows to work on Arm chips, having
> recently abandoned their earlier recent attempt, but it's likely they will
> still need vast amounts of resources, such as one would reasonably expect
> from a desktop/laptop - and still not work on other form-factors.
>
> So wearables (incl watches) and handhelds, and chromebooks are likely to
> keep using unix-based systems, usually specifically gnu&linux.
>
>
> This bug was first raised when the word "desktop" covered all the
> form-factors that could be used in small-business and by families or other
> private usage. Nowadays the term "desktop", even if expanded to include
> laptops, only represents under 20% of that market.
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
> On 13 December 2016 at 14:40, Luca Ciavatta <email address hidden>
> wrote:
>
> > I confirm this bug.
> > I visited some local PC stores (middle-sized city in Italy) and I
> > attempted to buy a machine without any proprietary software.
> >
> > All the computers on sale had proprietary software.
> >
> > --
> > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> > report.
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
> >
> > Title:
> > Microsoft has a majority market share
> >
> > Status in Clubdistro:
> > Confirmed
> > Status in Computer Science Ubuntu:
> > Confirmed
> > Status in LibreOffice:
> > New
> > Status in dylan.NET.Reflection:
> > Invalid
> > Status in dylan.NET:
> > Invalid
> > Status in EasyPeasy Overview:
> > Confirmed
> > Status in Ichthux:
> > Invalid
> > Status in JAK LINUX:
> > Invalid
> > Status in LibreOffice:
> > In Progress
> > Status in Skylinux:
> > New
> > Status in Linux Mint:
> >...

Read more...

Changed in reactos-core:
status: New → Incomplete
Martin Wildam (mwildam) wrote :

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Tom <email address hidden> wrote:
> A few years ago some study allegedly found that 80%
> of computer usage is now done using tablets and phones.

You mean 80 % of the computer usage that nobody really needs is now
done using tablets and phones. Apart from storekeepers that nowadays
do their checklists and confirm their good receipts via tablet I
barely see people doing their real work via phone or tablet (at least
apart from writing emails). Or would you say 80 % of the computer work
is e-mailing. mmmhh - could even be... ;-)

> [...]
> This bug was first raised when the word "desktop" covered all the
> form-factors that could be used in small-business and by families or other
> private usage. Nowadays the term "desktop", even if expanded to include
> laptops, only represents under 20% of that market.

My experience is, that everybody still uses desktop or laptop - at
least for the more sophisticated work. I don't know a single person
who owns just a phone or tablet and not also a desktop or laptop
computer. Of course I would put desktops and laptop together in the
group. Anyway, Bug 1 is not fixed yet!

Best regards, Martin.

brian russell (vagemulo) wrote :

bug 1 is a platform monopoly problem. In the case of Ebay, Uber, Airbnb, Windows, most people are on each of these platforms, because, well, everyone else is on that platform. Not because the platform is better.

Fortunately, it seems there is a bugfix emerging for the plaform monopoly problem, and its called crowdacting.

crowdacting.org

it will take some time before truly massive migration like a windows to linux migration is possible, but smaller migrations are sure to start taking place and inspiring larger migrations.

Let us ponder for a moment on the Founding Bug of Ubuntu. Now that Shuttleworth has accepted to port Ubuntu as the official platform for the Windows Subsystem for Linux. Maybe it is time to think about that "fix released". I know, « the world has changed », « we've come to better terms »... Microsoft does NOT change. You don't "come to better terms" with Microsoft, you leave your project be abducted by Microsoft.

I think our fellow Mark closed this bug too soon. Too hastily.

So long as WSL exists, the bug will exist.

Martin Wildam (mwildam) wrote :

PC and laptop times are not over, no, tablets and mobile phones are
not an alternative. Alternative devices may obsolete a PC at many
places, but: For those who want a PC or laptop if they go to a shop,
they still pretty everywhere only find Windows. There should be some
hardware that comes preinstalled with Linux/Ubuntu (and maybe not only
the old slow hardware), but this is not the case (neither for the
older hardware).

So this bug is very clearly not-solved. It might be obsolete, if
Android is used on PCs also and even the CAD users have there software
running on Android also.

Martin.

mohican (mohican) wrote :

I suggest changing the title of this bug to :

"Non-free systems have a majority market share"

which is certainly the original intended idea of this bug.

(Of course Google Android is not a free system because it contains non-free Google Mobile Services.)

And therefore re-opening the bug.

Boris Malkov (hikari968) wrote :

I'm using Ubuntu since 8.04, and have noticed something. It was improving with every single release, but since 12.04 I don't see neither the progress nor at least stability: it is getting worse. The 16.04 tortures me with many glitches on the daily basis, and I found here a bug report already submitted by other people for every problem I have. Most of those reports are YEARS old and still are UNASSIGNED. This tells me: Ubuntu doesn't give a s**t to user experience and bug reports any more.
So I think this particular bug will never be resolved, at list because no one cares. And, btw, Ubuntu became so s**tty that I switched to other distro after many years with Ubuntu.

Martin Wildam (mwildam) wrote :

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 12:20 PM, Boris Malkov <email address hidden> wrote:
> I'm using Ubuntu since 8.04, and have noticed something. It was improving with every single release,
> but since 12.04 I don't see neither the progress nor at least stability: it is getting worse.

I am not an Ubuntu developer, but as far as I know, lately most things
happening, happen in the background / under the hood (e.g. X11
replacement). And of course this might cause more bugs rising
(temporary). And yes, I also experience some issues, such as
[Bug 792085] Re: Automatic remount of safely removed USB 3.0 drive
which finally got fixed (even if on launchpad it is not yet marked as
fix released).
But I am still fine with the overall stability and I use Ubuntu all
day on my primary work laptop and several other machines/devices.

> The 16.04 tortures me with many glitches on the daily basis, and I found here a bug report already submitted by other people for every
> problem I have. Most of those reports are YEARS old and still are UNASSIGNED.

I found 2 bugs you are following which are older. One is Bug #304345:
"File chooser dialog doesn't provide network access" - which is a
duplicate of another bug which has been fixed. The other is Bug
#971219
: "Remmina Crashes with when connecting to some RDP hosts"
which in reality is not an Ubuntu issue only. People write that it
depends on the certificate on the remote Windows machine. And oh yes,
there is a third issue that is related to launchpad itself. Is that
what you identify as reduced overall Ubuntu stability? What I see at
co-workers and customers what they fight with Windows, I am still way
better off with Linux.

> This tells me: Ubuntu doesn't give a s**t to user experience and bug reports any more.
> So I think this particular bug will never be resolved, at list because no one cares.
> And, btw, Ubuntu became so s**tty that I switched to other distro after many years with Ubuntu.

My experience is that the better details on a problem you serve the
better the answer is, what you get.
So maybe try to provide more exact details on your problems to help
the developers finding the bug faster.

Best regards, Martin.

Regards from Kaliningrad, Russia

That bug is being fixed here partially by now, see below.

Just to make sure, I visited some PC shops around and, to my surprise, found some computers with Ubuntu and few with FreeDOS (and, as consultant said, any linux distro from list could be installed for free).

The fun is what some own Linux distro is used (AFAIK) by Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs, and there is military Rosa linux (totally shitty from what I heard but still).
If only we could make schools to teach students to use Linux systems instead, that would change the game.

I estimate the prevalence of free software in education here as about 15-18%, maybe 25% based on what I see in university.

Changed in ubuntu:
assignee: Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl) → fatalerrorbro (fatalerrorbro)
Changed in archlinux:
assignee: nobody → fatalerrorbro (fatalerrorbro)
status: Confirmed → In Progress
patop (patop) on 2017-07-14
Changed in ubuntu:
assignee: fatalerrorbro (fatalerrorbro) → patop (patop)
Changed in archlinux:
assignee: fatalerrorbro (fatalerrorbro) → nobody
importance: Undecided → Unknown
status: In Progress → Unknown
information type: Public → Private Security
information type: Private Security → Public
Changed in archlinux:
importance: Unknown → Undecided
status: Unknown → New
Changed in ubuntu:
assignee: patop (patop) → nobody
28 comments hidden view all 1966 comments
In , Rebe (rebe) wrote :

The original implementation removed .hlp file support (Win32help.exe). The option to reinstall the app only works for Win <10. Wine continues to support the legacy format. Some bugs remaining e.g. #29579 #14286 #14296 #14299

Changed in wine:
importance: Unknown → Wishlist
status: Unknown → Confirmed
Changed in linuxmint:
status: In Progress → Fix Released
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