"Mine empty" message is a lie. Should be "Main vein exhausted"

Bug #890739 reported by Kyromaster on 2011-11-15
This bug affects 1 person
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone

Bug Description

I'm not entirely sure whether this behaviour is still the case, but according to the forum resources are infinite with the productivity dropping very much when the supply is empty. This is not ideal.
Ore should be finite, if a mine is declared empty there shouldn't come one single unit of ore out of it.
Fish and water supplies should take into account overproduction and regenerating effects and for fish the possibility of exterminating the population with too much fishermen (which could only be solved with a fishbreeder when applicable).
Of course these are just my suggestions ;)

Astuur (wolfsteinmetz) wrote :

I hear you loud and clear.
However, you do not tell, what advantage you expect from the change.
Can you please explain a little _why_ you'd favour this change?

SirVer (sirver) wrote :

this was the behaviour in s2 and it lead to games running dry (literally). The behaviour you want to change was added to widelands to fix this problem in s2; we succeeded as widelands game can go on forever and will only slow down, Management of resources stays important.

+1 for keeping status quo

Kyromaster (kyromaster) wrote :

Yes, you're right, I didn't state this clearly.
Of course widelands is not a strictly realistic game. I'd call the nice thing about the whole "settlers" principle "abstract realism", it hasn't to be as complex as reality but the rules should be intuitive. And empty, of course, has just one meaning ;)

Hans Joachim Desserud (hjd) wrote :

There was also a discussion arguing for unlimited resources a while back (see bug 785437 for details).

Personally, I like the current compromise. It is quite hard to deadlock yourself completely because you run out of something, but on the other hand you will not be able to keep up you production levels forever.

Changed in widelands:
importance: Undecided → Wishlist
tags: added: gameplay
Astuur (wolfsteinmetz) wrote :

Oh well, realism is not really an important issue in my mind.
I can understand how this features looks absurd at the first glance, but even if you would care
about realism, there is always a chance someone find a new vein in an exploited mine.
Having this minimal production still available on the other hand is a safety net to prevent deadlocks.
Currently, there is 5 % chance for another successful attempt with an empty ore mine.
The same chance applies to a mine built in place where no ore should be.
I have learned to welcome this feature when playing auto generated maps and could
not find a suitable mountain within my territory. At least you can make some tools over time
from the meager returns.
So I'd vote for keeping this feature as it is. too.

Kyromaster (kyromaster) wrote :

If you keep it that way what about changing the "mine empty" message to "main supplies exhausted" or something similar?
Would clear this up to beginners IMHO.

Hans Joachim Desserud (hjd) wrote :

I think a message like Michael suggests ("main vein exhausted") would make sense, and probably make it less confusing how empty mines are able to produce additional resources.

SirVer (sirver) wrote :

I see no hurt in this. Something along the lines "Main vein exhausted. Expect strongly dimished returns on investment" or so

Changed in widelands:
status: New → Confirmed
milestone: none → build17-rc1
Astuur (wolfsteinmetz) wrote :

Good Idea... I like it.

SirVer (sirver) on 2012-02-17
summary: - Have finite resources
+ "Mine empty" message is a lie. Should be "Main vein exhausted"
Nasenbaer (nasenbaer) wrote :

fixed in bzr rev. 6267

Changed in widelands:
assignee: nobody → Nasenbaer (nasenbaer)
status: Confirmed → Fix Committed
Angelo Locritani (alocritani) wrote :

I think should be "vein" not "vain" (src/logic/production_program.cc:1209)

Nasenbaer (nasenbaer) wrote :

You are of course completely right :). Sorry for that typo. I fixed it (and the catalogues) in 6270

SirVer (sirver) wrote :

Released in build17-rc1.

Changed in widelands:
status: Fix Committed → Fix Released
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