zsys clutters up the system and stops system updates.

[BertN45]

Updates of my system stopped, because the boot partition has been cluttered up with snapshots. Note that remedy in the error message is completely wrong! See the annex!

From a programming point of view zsys and zsysctl do work and are an achievement. However from an architectural point of view, they hamper the elegance of zfs. They keep creating snapshots and filling up the partitions without any simple way to control the increase in clutter and size. I now have over 25 snapshots of my system and all snapshots, except say a few are completely useless.

The commands of zsysctl use a terminology different from zfs for the same objects and the commands have no added value compared to those of zfs itself. Documentation of the commands are missing and it is completely unclear, which functions will be implemented at which moment in the future. Functions are missing and one of the obvious missing functions is related to new users created after installation.

For my 2 main systems (desktop and laptop), both running 20.04, I have purged zsys and zsysctl and I will rely on plain zfs and its grub related adaptions. For the VM I will delete the snapshots and pray for a solution for people with less experience than me.
Please if you are serious about zfs:
- create a good written architecture specification
- create a project plan, about which functions will be implemented when.
- collect enough programming capacity to implement those changes according to that plan.

I have the feeling, that the current "team" is completely understaffed and lacks the OpenZFS, ZOL and Ubuntu management support, they deserve.

Why should you take my warning serious? I have 40 years of experience in software development; have designed an OS; run a software department of more than 100 persons for more than a decade and finished my last 10 working years (2001-2010) as chief architect of Eurocontrol (Say the European FAA, serving ~30 independent countries).

ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 20.04
Package: zsys 0.4.1
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.4.0-18.22-generic 5.4.24
Uname: Linux 5.4.0-18-generic x86_64
NonfreeKernelModules: zfs zunicode zavl icp zcommon znvpair
ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu21
Architecture: amd64
CurrentDesktop: ubuntu:GNOME
Date: Thu Mar 26 18:51:53 2020
InstallationDate: Installed on 2020-02-01 (54 days ago)
InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS "Focal Fossa" - Alpha amd64 (20200131)
SourcePackage: zsys
UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install)

[Didier Roche-Tolomelli (didrocks)]

Sorry BertN45, but you are using a development version and should know what you do as such.

First, the garbage collection of snapshots is just entering ubuntu in the next few hours (remember that you are using a development version currently, not everything was hooked up/bug fixed yet), so most of system and user snapshots will be collected regularly, via rules.

Note that zsys is taken a set of snapshots, disctincting system, persistent and users. Also, clones can be created and are considered as well as system save. To not confuse people with ZFS knowledge, like you, this is why we came up with a different terminology for it and called that a state.

> Functions are missing and one of the obvious missing functions is related to new users created after installation.

Sorry, unsure to understand what you mean? Can you create a bug report for this? New users have their own dataset autopmatically created which is an implementation detail for most of people.

On architecture diagram and how basically to develop a project, we have all of this, and it’s not because you didn’t look for them (they were linked in blog posts and the press took it) that they didn’t exists:
- Functions are missing and one of the obvious missing functions is related to new users created after installation.
- https://github.com/orgs/ubuntu/projects/1 for the project roadmap
- yes, the team is small, but as you can see, we are really active and currently fixing precise, detailed, documented bug (unlike this global one).

As an expert programmer, leader and others, you probably know that we need detailed and precise bug reports to fix and act on them. This one is a mix of vague content, with some inaccuracy as seen above. I’m thus marking this one as incomplete and please, reopen detailed ones with things we can fix.

For instance, the error message of not enough free space is a good one. Also, the details of the ZFS partition layout and content will be even more helpful to see how, in a stable release, you have so many kernel updates that snapshots filled up entirely your partition.

[BertN45 (lammert-nijhof)]

Sorry, I did not expect new features to be added for the user, approx
one month after the "feature freeze" and one week after the "user
interface freeze". For me it looked this was to be released in 20.04.

Yes I know, it is a development version, so I don't complain when:
- The update of the Ubuntu 20.04 systems failed say one week ago.
Afterwards the system could not be rebooted and even the recovery mode
did not work. OR
- What I see today, all virtual-desktops/workspaces together on one
physical screen.

In those cases I boot from my 2nd ext4 system and rollback that last
crippling change or I ignore all the clutter on my screen and live with
it. However when new features do seem contra-productive, I do complain.

I still have serious issues, but since features will be added and since
3 to 4 weeks before the release date is not the right time for any
discussion, I will shut up.

On Fri, 2020-03-27 at 09:17 +0000, Didier Roche wrote:
> Sorry BertN45, but you are using a development version and should
> know
> what you do as such.
>
> First, the garbage collection of snapshots is just entering ubuntu in
> the next few hours (remember that you are using a development version
> currently, not everything was hooked up/bug fixed yet), so most of
> system and user snapshots will be collected regularly, via rules.
>
> Note that zsys is taken a set of snapshots, disctincting system,
> persistent and users. Also, clones can be created and are considered
> as
> well as system save. To not confuse people with ZFS knowledge, like
> you,
> this is why we came up with a different terminology for it and called
> that a state.
>
> > Functions are missing and one of the obvious missing functions is
> related to new users created after installation.
>
> Sorry, unsure to understand what you mean? Can you create a bug
> report
> for this? New users have their own dataset autopmatically created
> which
> is an implementation detail for most of people.
>
> On architecture diagram and how basically to develop a project, we
> have all of this, and it’s not because you didn’t look for them (they
> were linked in blog posts and the press took it) that they didn’t
> exists:
> - Functions are missing and one of the obvious missing functions is
> related to new users created after installation.
> - https://github.com/orgs/ubuntu/projects/1 for the project roadmap
> - yes, the team is small, but as you can see, we are really active
> and currently fixing precise, detailed, documented bug (unlike this
> global one).
>
> As an expert programmer, leader and others, you probably know that we
> need detailed and precise bug reports to fix and act on them. This
> one
> is a mix of vague content, with some inaccuracy as seen above. I’m
> thus
> marking this one as incomplete and please, reopen detailed ones with
> things we can fix.
>
> For instance, the error message of not enough free space is a good
> one.
> Also, the details of the ZFS partition layout and content will be
> even
> more helpful to see how, in a stable release, you have so many kernel
> updates that snapshots filled up entirely your partition.
>
>
> ** Changed in: zsys (Ubuntu)
> Status: ...

[Sithuk (sithuk)]

This issue has been reported again here:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zsys/+bug/1876334

[Julian (julianp)]

Hi BertN45,

Have you managed to completely remove zsys from your ubuntu system ? I'm interested in doing the same. Could you please document steps to achieve it ?

[BertN45 (lammert-nijhof)]

On Ubutuntu I use: sudo apt purge zsys

On Sun, 2020-11-08 at 15:39 +0000, Julian wrote:
> *** This bug is a duplicate of bug 1876334 ***
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1876334
>
> Hi BertN45,
>
> Have you managed to completely remove zsys from your ubuntu system ?
> I'm
> interested in doing the same. Could you please document steps to
> achieve
> it ?
>