Honestly...If i was a new user to begin my linux experience with
Gutsy...and i switched to linux just my cool friend had a desktop cube
(which believe me man....is the most compelling feature for normal
users...I've had my friends switch to ubuntu just because of beryl
mainly)...and i see that my system keeps crashing when i run 3d apps...i
wouldnt care to ask anybody why it happens..whose faults is it...nVidia
or linux...i'd shove my microsoft CD right in and become microsoft's
slave again very very happily.

just my opinion.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Haskins <email address hidden>
Reply-To: Bug 130325 <email address hidden>
To: <email address hidden>
Subject: [Bug 130325] Re: [nvidia-glx-new] 3D GL apps crash X when using
compiz (gutsy)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:36:14 -0000


Well this got more complicated... apparently this patch has gone
upstream, and is required to make a few new things function. I was
skimming the update/patch logs. This patch was removed early July (13th-
ish?) and reinstated the 15th "fixed" no specific mentions of nvidia,
but it was removed for some compiz issues, and re-added when the compiz
issues were supposedly gone. Now this is interesting... short term, we
could sort of weigh the options and maybe remove the patch from the
build cycle, long term (next release) if this isn't fixed and we get the
new upstream with this patch without it being fixed, it's far more
annoying. So this is just getting rather crazy... Now when other peopel
start using this patch, or start using the new upstream all applicable
distros will see it, and no way it'd go unpatched for long. But it comes
down to this:

It seems like in fixing a bug on our end, we exposed a great nvidia end
bug... We could work aroudn this more properly, or we could leave it in
the main distro tree to try and pressure nvidia to fix it (they really
have no reason to listen, in all honesty)

I'm sure nVidia would eventually fix their end of it. But until then... heres what we can do:
1) if the options are weighed in the favor of Compiz support (realistically, almost everyone uses some form of compositing with ubuntu these days, if they can, it's just so easy for light effects to be done) then we will patch this back out of upstream/remove the current patch from the build tree, and there we go.

2) We decide that we shouldn't have to work around somethign we believe
to be nvidia end in a grand stance against closed source software! (Sure
it'll work well, nvidia will find the err in their ways, and
whathaveyou, of course they will) Then I would recommend someone who
knows X well to build a semi-official or 3rd party package to fix this
(build it without the patch) and distribute it in some repository, and
make it accessible, seems like something that might be fit for trevs
Gutsy repo (getting in to the whole of package semantics later on)

Honestly, It's a big thing to just say "No we won't do things hackishly
for you Mr. nVidia!" to essentially break use of Compiz with anything
remotely useful in gutsy final.

Does anyone have the guts to tell people, specifically new users, that
because of politics (mainly anywho), they will have to compile a copy of
xserver themselves, or uninstall the current and replace it with an off
named X which will crap out their metas, and so on. That's a lot to say!

I know it's not *only* politics, the patch was commited for a reason,
but there we have it. X crashing Vs. a few things working properly
otherwise (from what I hear about the patch, don't quote me on that.)