Tangerine look for synaptic

[Michael Monreal]

Synaptic needs a facelift to better fit the icon themes that will be used in Ubuntu Dapper Drake (Human / Tangerine)

Synaptic is partly icon-theme aware, so things like "refresh" and "search" will always be themed. Other icons ("mark all", "filter") are not themed: I replaced those with Tango/Tangerine icons which look nice on Ubuntu. As you will see, package status icons are also changed.

If you are interested, I can provide a tarball with the new icons.

glatzor:

Install the icons to the hicolor theme and use the "icon-name" property for GtkCellRendererPixbuf.

[Michael Monreal (mimox)]

Synaptic after applying the new stile.

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

Since I requested the icons at the ubuntu-art list, I am aware of this issue and also have a copy of the icons on my computer at home.

There is also an open issue with the icons that you used. You cannot see if a locked icon is installed or not.

Regards,

Sebastian

[Michael Monreal (mimox)]

I had a look at the proposals on ubuntu-art and used those as a base. The result is closer to the original artwork.

Main problem seems to be that these icons carry two meanings: package status and/or actions.

Status:
- not installed / installed / broken: colored square like original
- locked: same, with lock emblem
- new/upgradable: tango "new" flare

Actions:
- install / upgrade / downgrade: just arrows in different directions. current package status is irrelevant in this case, packing this information into the icons would just make it more complicated. I experimented with a red "downgrade" arrow (because ist can potentially be dangerous) but i'm not sure if it is really needed.
- remove: tango "delete" icon
- purge: tango "clear" icons; icon works well IMHO because package is "wiped"

also provided is a "package-supported" icon (ubuntu logo, from tangerine), a filter icon (official tango icon) and system-upgrade isons in 16x16 and 24x24 pixel.

Please have a look at this in action, it looks and works really well.

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

Why hide the status information if the package is marked for an action? downgrade is not officially supproted and therefor always dangerous.

[Michael Monreal (mimox)]

Ok so downgrade should be "attention, you are breaking your system"-red.

Anyway, concerning the actions:
- if a package is locked, no action can be used.
- if a package is being installed/reinstalled, it was always previously not installed.
- if a package is being downgraded, it was previously installed.
- if a package is being uninstalled/purged, it was always previously installed.

So, every action already tells the previous status. Also, the nature of an action is that it changes status... and IMHO showing the next state would be more interesting than showing the last state (but as I said before, showing only the action should be enough anyway)

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

This is inconsistent.

Furthermore the information if a locked package is installed or not can be interesting, too.

A reinstalled package is actually installed. So it does not seem to be so clear :)

[Michael Monreal (mimox)]

>> This is inconsistent.
The current system (status/action) together in one 16x16 icon seems to be somewhat broken... Perhaps splitting in two columns would make more sense?

>> Furthermore the information if a locked package is installed
>> or not can be interesting, too.
This is covered by my aproach.

>> A reinstalled package is actually installed. So it does not
>> seem to be so clear :)
As said before, the state AFTER the action is the interesting one; after reinstalling and installing, a package is always installed :)

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

Why should the current icons be broken? Josué works on an tango/tangerine version currently.

You said that "if a package is being installed/reinstalled, it was always previously not installed."

[Michael Monreal (mimox)]

Yeah, that was... wrong =)

The idea behind this all was just that you don't really need to know if a package is installed or not. If there is an "install" action on that package, the package will end up as being isntalled, that's all that counts.

Concerning the "broken" system: I'm using synaptic for many years now and it always worked more or less great, so the system can't really be broken. Perhaps another approach (separating actions from status or perhaps underlining packages in different colors and just use the icon for actions) would be cleaner, but then again, let's see what Josué comes up with, it possibly can't be worse than it is now =)

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

I would call this droping a brick, since I am the creator of the original icons :)

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

A tango'fied version of the orignal icon set.

Open issues that I and Michael see:

 - contrast too low
 - green blinds too much - perhaps a darker one or a dark orange qould be good
 - upgrade arrow should be from the left to the upper right

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

an icon

[Josué Alcalde González (josuealcalde)]

Hello. This starts to be a bit confusing, so please, let's summarize :)

I am going to atach three icons set for synaptic.

First is which I prefer.
It use orange arrows for everything but install (green arrow) and downgrade(red arrow)
The green colours for installed packages come from tango palette.

Second uses yellow arrows, so it needs darker green. I don't know if it is enough dark and if the arrows are well defined. Take a look at it, please.

The third is a proposition which would need code hack.
I have read about the posibbility of using two columns and I think it is good.
I suggest using the status icon for three things:
- Colour shows the main status (installed, not installed, broken)
- The star to show new packages or outdated-packages
- A ubuntu logo in the square in supported packages
And the actions icon for the actions:
- Block
- Install
- Reinstall
- Remove
- Purge

Block is not really an action; in fact, it could be considered as status, but it blocks any action on the package. If it is in the action column, it will be more visible (bigger) and will allow tho show the supported ubuntu logo in the packages.

[Michael Monreal (mimox)]

I just tried those...

Well:

First of all, the dark-orange arrow in the "system-upgrade" icon in theme #1 doesn't really stand out from the brown backgrount, I have trouble figuring out what it means. Theme #2 is better in this regard, but the arrow seems to be quite blurry and the shape (at least in the 16px version) seems strange. I took the shape of the arrow from tango's "save" icon for this, IMHO it works better in this size... feel free to compare, you'll find it in my "proposal" attachment.

I also don't like the idea of having a "supported" emblem in the icon. wouldn't it be much better to keep this a separate column but extend synaptic to allow cusom emblems for different repositories? so addon-repos from, for example wine could provide their own icon for that.

Lastly, I want to point out again why I chose to not stick "action" icons into squares. Yiu called this inconsistent, but really, it's not. Use the icon to show the current status (uninstalled/installed/broken/uninstalled-locked/installed-locked), but, if this status is going to change, display the action that will be taken (install//upgrade/downgrade, in which case it is clear that the package will be installed afterwards, or uninstall/purge, in which case it is clear that the package will not be installed afterwards.)

Speaking about consitency: This is the "sane" approach when consitency is the thing you want, because you will have to look at the consitency of the whole desktop: nowhere does the desktop use tiny-action-icons-forced-into-colored-squares in a context menu. Right-click a file in nautilus or a mail in evolution: you will see the "delete" icon. Now do the same in Synaptic: you will see (if you don't follow my approach) a square with a delete icon. This simply shouldn't be the case. [well you could define other icons for the context menu but that would men code changes to synaptic and the same discussion does-the-current-state-really-matter would start again]

[Lapo Calamandrei (calamandrei)]

Way too much visual noise in my opinion, I wouldn't use all those icons in the list (I don't know if I'd use icons at all). The mark all icon does not have any meaning, the action it describes it to select revelant entries in a list of packages, a computer with an arrow doesn't descibe this action at all. The update this computer concept the icon may describe is not totally right, because you dot't just press that button to have your computer update, but you have to confirm with another action.

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

An icons set using a colored package icon for installed packages and a grayed one for unisntalled ones.

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

Hi Lapo,

have you already seen the icons proposed by Andreas Nilsson? They are not complete but could be a good base. I attached a screenshot to this bug report.

The system icon could be confussing if it would stand alone, but in the context of the package status icons it makes sense to me: the same arrow is used if a package is marked for upgrade. The mark -> apply workflow is crucical to synaptic. I don't think that the users expects a different behavior here. Some time ago, the action was indeed called "upgrade". But I changed this because of the above reason.

Sebastian

[Lapo Calamandrei (calamandrei)]

Hi Sebastian

I'm referring to that screenshot all those icons in the list make the interface cluttered, I really prefer the old way, as I said it is just my personal opinion.
Regarding the mark all icon (I know how synaptics works, even if I'm more the apt-get kind of guy :-)) I'm saying that it does not represent the action it do, pressing that icon does not upgrade your system, it only marks the relevant packages so I found it misleading. I'm not saying to remove the arrow, it needs another metaphor something relative to marking things.
Perhaps there should be no icon at all for that action (while keeping an entry in menus) and all the upgradable packages could be automatically selected on refresh, but I'm not a gui designer :-)

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

I don't know how anyone could write more than his "personal" view.

Selecting all upgrades on refresh is not an option since there are too many dial up users, that do not want to fetch every update as soon as it's available. And many other users don't like too much magic :)

The problem is that "mark all updates" is a quite common used function, so we really need its representation in the toolbar. And this requires an icon. :/

You are perhaps not a gui but an icon designer :) So that is where I could need your help.

Do you refer to the icons of Josué (the tango version of the old ones), Andreas (packages, action) or Michael?

I am always happy to get feedback or comments.

Sebastian

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

@Michael:

there are some icons that do not only contain one object. it is not only an action. the symbol represents the status of the package.

Would you like to complete your icon theme as suggested by Andreas? So that we can give it a try. They do not have to be perfect.

Installed: colored package
Uninstalled : grayes package
Marked for update: up arrow
Marked for downgrade: down arrow
Locked uninstalled: grayed lock
Locked installed: colored lock
Mark for removal: delete
Mark for complete removal: crossed delete?

Missing icons:

Reinstall: ?
New: ?
Updatable: ?

@Josué:

Including the official ubuntu package information seems to be too much information for such a small icon :) I think that this is perhaps the wrong way.

I am in favor of your "synatic" set, too. Could you also please add a version for "package-installed-outdated" and "package-installed-updated". That would be great.

The orange arrow on the computer is quite blury and hard to identify.

If someone finds a nicer metaphor for the "mark all" I am open for it. My old metaphor doesn't have to survive the icon review.

Sebastian

[Lapo Calamandrei (calamandrei)]

Hi Sebastian

I'm referring to that screenshot all those icons in the list make the interface cluttered, I really prefer the old way, as I said it is just my personal opinion.
Regarding the mark all icon (I know how synaptics works, even if I'm more the apt-get kind of guy :-)) I'm saying that it does not represent the action it do, pressing that icon does not upgrade your system, it only marks the relevant packages so I found it misleading. I'm not saying to remove the arrow, it needs another metaphor something relative to marking things.
Perhaps there should be no icon at all for that action (while keeping an entry in menus) and all the upgradable packages could be automatically selected on refresh, but I'm not a gui designer :-)

[Lapo Calamandrei (calamandrei)]

Hi Sebastian,

I'd prefer not to have icons in the list at all, just check marks, perhaps the whole concept here needs a rethink.

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

I am sure that the current UI approach in synaptic is not the perfect one, but the best one that I could think of. We came a long way - I don't know if you have used Synaptic in the early 2000s.

Check buttons would only allow two values, but we need more if we show packages of all states in one list. We could separate them by status in a notebook, but this would remove much functionality. But I am still thinking about a better design.

Furthermore this is a long term goal - and we need a good icon set for dapper now.

[Lapo Calamandrei (calamandrei)]

I'd surelly separate the action the user request to the package status information, the icons Andreas proposed are ok for the status, the action related one (install, reinstall and so on) needs a bit of thinking, let my try something. I'll try to figure out something for mark all as well.

[Michael Monreal (mimox)]

I just found this screenshot and thought I would share:

http://www.pseudocode.org/tango/package.png

I think the ideas behind those are really nice, perhaps synaptic could use something like that?

[Sebastian Heinlein (glatzor)]

We need to use the icon theme framework. This code isn't in C, I know :)

  icon_theme = gtk.icon_theme_get_default()
  try:
      pixbuf = icon_theme.load_icon("my-icon-name", 48, 0)
  except gobject.GError, exc:
      print "can't load icon", exc

The artwork team is on it.

[Michael Monreal (mimox)]

hbons from the Tango team just attached a screenshot with cool new icons for synaptic here:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/synaptic/+bug/162043

They even fit well into the new orange theme which is supposed to be used in the next release.

[TomasHnyk (sup)]

Also related to this issue (the look of synaptic) seems to be this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-icon-theme/+bug/153755

[antistress (antistress)]

i'm quite disapointed to discover the new theme of hardy alpha 6 whereas Synaptic still doesn't look nice
Is there any plan to change these Synaptic old icons to fix that bug ?

[Michael Monreal (mimox)]

Sebastian, could we please make fixing synaptic a goal for intrepid? In particular, those bugs need attention

https://bugs.launchpad.net/synaptic/+bug/162043 => beautiful status icons as discussed here (not too different from the old ones but _nice_)
https://bugs.launchpad.net/human-icon-theme/+bug/153755 => application icon

[Robert Roth (evfool)]

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[Launchpad Janitor (janitor)]

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