sun-java5-jdk should ask to set itself as the default upon installation

[Lakin Wecker]

sun-java5-jdk should ask to set itself as the default upon installation.

I know that we typically don't ask questions like this to most users. But, most users will not be installing this package. It's likely that developers will be installing this package, and currently they will all have to know that they have to run:

sudo update-alternatives --config java

afterwards in order to set the sun-java5 jdk to the default. bug #40013 is a related bug, as this is a good reason why we should ask about which should be the default.

[Matt Zimmerman (mdz)]

It shouldn't ask, but should simply do the right thing when installed.

[Lakin Wecker (lakin)]

I'm ok with that.

[Pander (pander)]

Some suggestions regarding sun-java5 packages:

- make sure that /etc/eclipse/java_home has first line:
    /usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-sun
- make sure that /etc/jvm has first line:
    /usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-sun
- make sure that /etc/alternatives/java (and friends) point to:
    /usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-sun/jre/bin/java
- make sure that firefox/mozilla Sun Java plugin test OK on:
    http://www.java.com/en/download/help/testvm.xml

and of course https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java

[Frank Niedermann (fbn)]

this is a gread idea

[Matthias Klose (doko)]

this is not a great idea at all. If eclipse needs sun-java5 by default, we need to move it to multiverse, which we do not like to do.

[Frank Niedermann (fbn)]

What's the matter with eclipse?

If an user installs Sun Java why should he/she care about making Sun Java default for the operating system?

[Ben Maurer (bmaurer)]

Many users need to use java5 because it is used by other people they work with. Expecting them to figure out how to make it the default JRE by editing lots of text files is not reasonable.

Maybe the easiest way to do this would be to have a way to (easily) *uninstall* gcj. That would allow us to still have sun java lower on each of the priority lists.

Whatever the solution, I think it should be possible to have the sun JRE as one's default Java environment by only installing a set of packages

[Lakin Wecker (lakin)]

It needs to ask, or we need to have a GUI tool to configure it. Either way, it is still a bug. When you install the sun JRE it's not used for many java applications. And there is no obvious way to change it.

I can't see why this bug was rejected. Without a solution, providing the sun-jre as a package is nearly useless. And it seems that it was rejected based on not moving eclipse to multiverse? That wasn't even the question.

The bug is simple: Make it so that people can choose(without command line) the default provider of their JRE.

[Matthias Klose (doko)]

Frank Niedermann schrieb:
> What's the matter with eclipse?

read the bug report.

> If an user installs Sun Java why should he/she care about making Sun
> Java default for the operating system?

you can use the same argument for java-gcj-compat.

[Matthias Klose (doko)]

Ben Maurer schrieb:
> Many users need to use java5 because it is used by other people they
> work with. Expecting them to figure out how to make it the default JRE
> by editing lots of text files is not reasonable.
>
> Maybe the easiest way to do this would be to have a way to (easily)
> *uninstall* gcj. That would allow us to still have sun java lower on
> each of the priority lists.

you can try this yourself. it may be possible. going this way means that
 free software runs using non-free software, or all software needing
java needs to be moved to multiverse, which is not going to happen.

> Whatever the solution, I think it should be possible to have the sun JRE
> as one's default Java environment by only installing a set of packages

and you want the same for each other java runtime. that's not going to
work. further, we don't support sun-java5 in main, so the best solution
is to prefer the supported option.

[Matthias Klose (doko)]

Lakin Wecker schrieb:
> The bug is simple: Make it so that people can choose(without command
> line) the default provider of their JRE.

send a patch that offers such a gui tool.

[Ben Maurer (bmaurer)]

Hey,

On Mon, 4 Dec 2006, Matthias Klose wrote:
> Ben Maurer schrieb:
>> Many users need to use java5 because it is used by other people they
>> work with. Expecting them to figure out how to make it the default JRE
>> by editing lots of text files is not reasonable.
>>
>> Maybe the easiest way to do this would be to have a way to (easily)
>> *uninstall* gcj. That would allow us to still have sun java lower on
>> each of the priority lists.
>
> you can try this yourself. it may be possible. going this way means that
> free software runs using non-free software, or all software needing
> java needs to be moved to multiverse, which is not going to happen.

There are many people who want/need to run the official Java packages and
are willing to sacrifice a bit of Free as in Freedom to do so.

>> Whatever the solution, I think it should be possible to have the sun JRE
>> as one's default Java environment by only installing a set of packages
>
> and you want the same for each other java runtime. that's not going to
> work. further, we don't support sun-java5 in main, so the best solution
> is to prefer the supported option.

What about a solution such as this:

Every package that installes a JRE has a package called default-java-X for
example, default-java-gcj, default-java-sun. The packages conflict with
each other, so only one can be installed.

Wouldn't this solution allow people to *easily* switch the default JRE?

-b

[Frank Niedermann (fbn)]

Matthias Klose wrote:
> further, we don't support sun-java5 in main, so the best solution
> is to prefer the supported option.

What is the reason for that? Long time it was difficult to get Java the "it just works" way onto Debian or Ubuntu, now it is easily possible and then it it's "not supported"? I remember Mark Shuttleworth writing about how he dislikes the "not supported" phrase ... strange.

[Matthias Klose (doko)]

Frank Niedermann schrieb:
> Matthias Klose wrote:
>> further, we don't support sun-java5 in main, so the best solution
>> is to prefer the supported option.
>
> What is the reason for that?

see http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu

Ubuntu is Free Software, and available to you free of charge. It's also
Free in the sense of giving you rights of Software Freedom, but you
probably knew that already! Unlike many of the other commercial
distributions in the free and open source world, the Ubuntu team really
does believe that Free software should be free of software licencing
charges.

and in more detail http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing

[Frank Niedermann (fbn)]

Ubuntu kicks out Sun Java and includes binary drivers. Still strange to me.