Taiwan is PRACTICALLY a "<country>", but not "Province of <country>" | zh_TW: 台灣「在事實上地」是一個「<國家>」,而非「<國家>的一省」 | zh_CN:台湾「在事实上地」是一个「<国家>」,而非「<国家>的一省」

Bug #1138121 reported by V字龍(Vdragon) on 2013-03-01
96
This bug affects 22 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
iso-codes
New
Undecided
Unassigned
software-properties (Ubuntu)
Undecided
Unassigned

Bug Description

You may remove the zh translation part as well if you can't handle that when modifying the title ;)

How to reproduce this BUG
如何再次實現此「軟體缺陷」
---------------------------------------------------
1.Open "Software Sources" in en_US.UTF-8 locale
  以 en_US.UTF-8 語系執行「軟體來源(software-sources-gtk/software-sources-kde)」程式
2.(Pretend) you are a Taiwanese.
  (假裝)您是一個台灣(中華民國)人
3.Try to choose a mirror in **your country**
  試著去選擇一個位於**您的國家**的 Ubuntu 官方軟體來源鏡像站

SHOULD see
「應該」看到什麼
---------------------------------------------------
* Taiwan, Republic of China(which is the official name of the **country**)
  中華民國(Taiwan, Republic of China)(**國家**的官方名稱)
* Taiwan(If we want to be less CHINA)
  台灣(如果我們要少一點「中國」的話)
BUT see INSTEAD
「然而」看到什麼
---------------------------------------------------
Taiwan, Province of China
中華人民共和國台灣省

Reasons and **current FACTS**
理由與**目前的「事實」**
---------------------------------------------------
* You need a visa from Taiwan instead from China to travel to Taiwan
  您需要申請台灣(中華民國)的而非中華人民共和國的簽證才能到台灣旅遊
* We can't travel to China without a China visa, SO SAD :P
  我們不能在不申請中華人民共和國的簽證(台胞證)的前提下到中國旅遊,「真可惜」:P
* We have a **working** **own** government, and is currently in any way not controlled by any organization outside the Taiwan island
  我們有一個「自己的」「作用中的」政府,而且其目前並未被任何位於台灣島以外的組織所控制。
* Although we know that ISO 3166-1 "so called standard" states "Taiwan, Province of China", a **buggy standard** is **buggy**, and definitely need to be patched before use.
  雖然我們知道 ISO 3166-1 「所謂的標準」標示台灣為「中華人民共和國台灣省」,一個**有缺陷的標準**是**有缺陷的**,且絕對需要被修正之後才能拿來使用。
* Almost every Taiwanese will be irritated if such bug crawling on their screen ;)
  如果這種軟體缺陷出現在電腦螢幕上幾乎所有的台灣(中華民國)人都會不爽 ;)
* And the real "Chinese by country" won't be happy either if they tried to use Ubuntu mirror located outside their country and (may or may not) be blocked by the great GFW of China.
  如果真的「由國家分別的中國人」試圖使用位於他們國家外面,(可能或可能無)被中國的防火长城封鎖的 Ubuntu 官方軟體來源境像站也不會高興的
* (Just a joke) If we really a "province of <country>", why shouldn't the mirror list just show "<country>" instead?
  (只是開玩笑)如果我們真的是「<國家>的一省」,為何鏡像站的清單不直接只顯示「<國家>」就好了呢?

Possible fix of this bug
可能的軟體缺陷修正方式
---------------------------------------------------
* Fix iso-codes package to change the offending and incorrect "Taiwan, Province of China" to something more neutral like "Taiwan"
  修正 iso-codes 軟體包中的激怒人且不正確的 "中華人民共和國台灣省" 字串為某種程度更加不具政治偏向的字串,例如 "台灣"
   * Don't stick to the upstream's(ISO 3166-1) version, the country name(which is from UN) is not part of the standard and is also not correct.
     請不要跟隨使用來自聯合國,非標準且不正確的國家名稱的上游(ISO 3166-1)版本
* Same as #614236's fix, use "common name" of iso-codes ("Taiwan") instead.
  跟 614236 號軟體缺陷報告所使用的修正一樣改為使用 "common name" 欄位的字串("台灣")

Reference Data
參考資料
---------------------------------------------------
* Taiwan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

Related bug reports
相關軟體缺陷報告
---------------------------------------------------
Bug #614236 “Wrong Country Name. (Taiwan)” : Bugs : LoCo Team Portal
https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-team-portal/+bug/614236

FS#30444 : Download Page uses Taiwan's name as “Taiwan, Province of China”
https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/30444

Please consider seriously, and please don't be evil as the "so called standard" do.
請慎重考慮此問題,且請勿像「所謂的標準」一樣惡毒

summary: Taiwan R.O.C. is practically a <country>, but not "Province of
- <country>"
+ <country>" | (zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」)
summary: - Taiwan R.O.C. is practically a <country>, but not "Province of
- <country>" | (zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」)
+ [Ubuntu 13.04 specific]Taiwan R.O.C. is practically a <country>, but not
+ "Province of <country>" | (zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」)
description: updated
description: updated
summary: - [Ubuntu 13.04 specific]Taiwan R.O.C. is practically a <country>, but not
- "Province of <country>" | (zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」)
+ [Ubuntu 13.04 specific]"Taiwan R.O.C." is practically a <country>, but
+ not "Province of <country>" | (zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」)

Status changed to 'Confirmed' because the bug affects multiple users.

Changed in software-properties (Ubuntu):
status: New → Confirmed
description: updated
description: updated
description: updated
description: updated
description: updated
description: updated
description: updated
Hiunn-hué (hiunnhue108) on 2013-03-02
information type: Public → Public Security
V字龍(Vdragon) (vdragon) wrote :

Hiunn-hué,
Sorry, that's not that kind of "security" related.

information type: Public Security → Public
Ma Hsiao-chun (mahsiaochun) wrote :

The real issue is that ISO data polluted by political stuff; if we instead show "Taiwan, an independent country", it would be a bug for other people.
Taiwan should be named as "Taiwan", the most general and neutral name.

Taiwan and other regions deserve a separate entry in "Software Sources" because they have virtually independent Internet infrastructure and mirror sites, right?
The political status of a region is not relevant I'd say.

summary: - [Ubuntu 13.04 specific]"Taiwan R.O.C." is practically a <country>, but
- not "Province of <country>" | (zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」)
+ "Taiwan R.O.C." is practically a <country>, but not "Province of
+ <country>" | (zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」)

Ma Xiaojun summarizes it pretty well: we're using the ISO data and we don't want to modify it unilaterally. Also, whatever is done in the Software Center (and other places where the iso-codes data is used), it will be a bug to some.

Could you not translate iso-codes so that in your language Taiwan does not appear translated as "Province"?

Changed in ubuntu-translations:
assignee: nobody → Ubuntu Traditional Chinese (Taiwan) Translators (ubuntu-l10n-zh-tw)
Cheng-Chia Tseng (zerng07) wrote :

The string "Taiwan, province of China" in zh_TW locale has been translated as "臺灣" (which means Taiwan) for years in this case.

Download full text (4.2 KiB)

Ehm UbuntuKylin has just been accepted yesterday as an official flavour and
the team (along with the Chinese government who is one of the sponsors)
wouldn't like that....
On 2013-3-5 下午6:43, "Launchpad Bug Tracker" <email address hidden>
wrote:

> David Planella (dpm) has assigned this bug to you for software-properties
> in Ubuntu:
>
> You may remove the zh_TW translation part if you can't handle that when
> modifying the title ;)
>
> How to reproduce
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 1.Open "Software Sources" in en_US.UTF-8 locale
> 2.(Pretend) you are a Taiwanese.
> 3.Try to choose a mirror in **your country**
>
> Should see
> ---------------------------------------------------
> * Taiwan, Republic of China(which is the official name of the **country**)
> * Taiwan(If we want to be less China)
>
> But see instead
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Taiwan, Province of China
>
> Reasons and **current FACTS**
> ---------------------------------------------------
> * You need a Taiwan Visa instead of China Visa to travel to Taiwan
> * We can't travel to China without a China Visa, so sad :P
> * We have **working** **own** government, and is currently in any way not
> controlled by any organization outside the Taiwan island
> * Although we know that ISO 3166 "so called standard" states "Taiwan,
> Province of China", a **buggy standard** is **buggy**, and definitely need
> to be patched before use.
> * Almost every Taiwanese will be irritated if such bug crawling on their
> screen ;)
> * And the real "Chinese by country" won't be happy either if they tried to
> use Ubuntu mirror located outside their country and (may or may not) be
> blocked by the great GFW of China.
> * (Just a joke) If we really a province of <country>, why shouldn't the
> mirror list just show <country> instead?
>
> Reference Data
> ---------------------------------------------------
> * Taiwan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
> "Constitutionally, the ROC government has claimed sovereignty over all of
> "China", in a definition that includes mainland China and Outer Mongolia,
> as well as Taiwan,[14] but has not made retaking mainland China a political
> goal since 1992.[15] However, the government's stance on defining its
> political position largely depends on which political coalition is in
> charge (See Politics below). Meanwhile, the PRC also asserts itself to be
> the sole legal representation of China and claims Taiwan to be under its
> sovereignty, denying the status and existence of ROC as a sovereign state.
> The PRC has threatened the use of military force as a response to any
> formal declaration of Taiwanese independence, or if it deems peaceful
> reunification no longer possible.[16] Relations between Taiwan and China as
> well as issues of national identity within the country are important
> factors in Taiwanese politics and a cause of social and political division
> among political parties and their respective supporters."
>
> Related bug reports
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Bug #614236 “Wrong Country Name. (Taiwan)” : Bugs : LoCo Team Portal
> h...

Read more...

Changed in ubuntu-translations:
status: New → Invalid

@Ma Xiaojun
Of course we won't name the region to "Taiwan, which is an independent country" ; )
But however "a province of China" is obviously INCORRECT from the FACTS (refer the "Bug Description"), which this bug report emphasizes about.

"Taiwan" is (mostly) fine for both neutral, "not to be political", and CORRECTNESS view.
And "Taiwan R.O.C." is for the ultimate correctness(though may not be "their correct" for other countries... and even Taiwanese theyselvesXD)

No matter the list in software-sources is "country name" or "region name", it is incorrect and thus needed to be fix.

@David Planella
As Cheng-Chia Tseng's comment in #5, there is no problem in the zh_TW translation(which already fixed to "台灣(Taiwan)" or "中華民國(Taiwan R.O.C.)") but in the original string.
There are many zh_TW users who prefer to use en_US locale instead and certainly will be affected by this bug. As the Chinese idiom "掩耳盜鈴(cover your own ears to steal a jingling bell)", cheating users by simply change the translation is not enough and is not a fix nor workaround.
Do we really need to stick to the "so-called upstream" and ignore any patch that is helpful to prevent discrimination on part of the users?

@Howard Chan
Libre software shouldn't be controlled by government, even which is sponsor or not, and shouldn't be a reason.
Refer the "Bug Description", I can't travel to HongKong without a visa(or pass), so sad ; )

summary: - "Taiwan R.O.C." is practically a <country>, but not "Province of
- <country>" | (zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」)
+ "Taiwan" is practically a <country>, but not "Province of <country>" |
+ (zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」)

Possible fix
---------------------------------------------------
* Fix iso-codes package to change the offending and incorrect "Taiwan, Province of China" to something more neutral like "Taiwan"
   * Don't stick to the upstream's(ISO 3166-1) version, the country name(which is from UN) is not part of the standard(country code) and is not correct, and is also not easy to fix from the real upstream(UN).
* Same as #614236's fix, use "common name" of iso-codes ("Taiwan") instead.

description: updated
Aron Xu (happyaron) wrote :

btw, altering iso-codes from what upstream ships as in your proposal would not be an acceptable solution, it will make Ubuntu and/or Canonical in a very risky position in the greater Chinese community.

description: updated
Ma Hsiao-chun (mahsiaochun) wrote :

Hi, Aron Xu

Are you aware of any regulation in Mainland China for such things in software product?

The dialog choosing mirrors itself doesn't imply whether it is a country list or a region list or a list of random strings.

Do you think the fact that "Taiwan" listed there would be politically wrong for some people as "Hong Kong" is also listed there now.

A problem could be the fact that we "country mirrors" for China, Hong Kong, Taiwan.
Chinese authority and some Chinese people are serious about what can be considered country and they may be unhappy with such terminology. But we can fix this easily by saying "region mirror" instead.

Aron Xu (happyaron) wrote :

This is very sensitive stuff. I don't see regulations for software product, but it does exist in translation and interpretation field for all kinds of stuff - the term "R.O.C" is forbidden in similar situations. If a product mentions the current "R.O.C" or list HK/TW as countries, the good will be automatically excluded from being imported or forbidden to be sold.

Ma Hsiao-chun (mahsiaochun) wrote :

But if other major systems don't show string like "Taiwan, Province of China", why should we show this? As this already caused some concerns for some people in Taiwan region.

V字龍(Vdragon) (vdragon) wrote :

Please fix(in iso-codes) (or at least, workaround(in Software Sources...etc.)) to remove the P.O.C. part of the en_US string.

No "R.O.C." will currently be fine, since many of the Taiwanese don't want that as well as we suffer from unneeded imaginations of any relationship between Taiwan and China for many years.

Ubuntu Kylin or Chinabuntu? It OK if they want lie themselves with "China versions" of Software Sources... and Ubuntu

Truth or LIE? It is a unavoidable choice.

Shih-Yuan Lee (fourdollars) wrote :

This issue should only affect quantal and raring.
I have provided a patch for this issue.

V字龍(Vdragon) (vdragon) wrote :

For any dear foreigners out from Taiwan island contributed to this bug report(<= 5), please contact me via launchpad.net when you have opportunity to travel to Taiwan and I'll give you a little treat of Pearl Milktea(珍珠奶茶): )

Oh, and remember not to apply the wrong visa ; )

Changed in software-properties (Ubuntu):
status: Confirmed → Fix Committed
tags: added: verification-needed
Changed in ubuntu-translations:
assignee: Ubuntu Traditional Chinese (Taiwan) Translators (ubuntu-l10n-zh-tw) → nobody
Shih-Yuan Lee (fourdollars) wrote :

Hello Vdragon, or anyone else affected,

Accepted software-properties into raring-proposed. The package is available at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/0.92.15, and then in the -proposed repository.

Please help us by testing this new package. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed for documentation how to enable and use -proposed. Your feedback will aid us getting this update out to other Ubuntu users.

If this package fixes the bug for you, please change the bug tag from verification-needed to verification-done. If it does not, change the tag to verification-failed. In either case, details of your testing will help us make a better decision.

affects: ubuntu-translations → ubuntu
affects: ubuntu → ubuntu-translations
Launchpad Janitor (janitor) wrote :

This bug was fixed in the package software-properties - 0.92.15

---------------
software-properties (0.92.15) raring; urgency=low

  [ Manish Sinha (मनीष सिन्हा) ]
  * lp:~manishsinha/software-properties/fix-874766-updates-tab-failed-auth:
    - Fixes LP: #874766 where after a failed authentication on Updates tab
      didn't revert the older values in ComboBox

  [ Brian Murray ]
  * To add-apt-repository add a patch from Winfield Trail for when the case a
    PPA does not have a signing key yet (LP: #968756)

  [ Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) ]
  * Fix a typo in CountryInformation.py. (LP: #1138121)
 -- Michael Vogt <email address hidden> Tue, 12 Mar 2013 09:35:08 +0100

Changed in software-properties (Ubuntu):
status: Fix Committed → Fix Released
tags: removed: verification-needed
V字龍(Vdragon) (vdragon) wrote :

Hi, I built & install the package in raring-proposed on Ubuntu 12.10 and it displays "Taiwan" correctly. :)

V字龍(Vdragon) (vdragon) wrote :

I'd like to know if this patch will be backported to quantal...

description: updated
description: updated
summary: "Taiwan" is practically a <country>, but not "Province of <country>" |
- (zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」)
+ zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」 | zh_CN:「台湾」实际上是一个「国家」,而非「『国家』的一省」
description: updated
Adolfo Jayme (fitojb) on 2013-03-16
no longer affects: ubuntu-translations
description: updated
summary: - "Taiwan" is practically a <country>, but not "Province of <country>" |
+ "Taiwan" is PRACTICALLY a <country>, but not "Province of <country>" |
zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」 | zh_CN:「台湾」实际上是一个「国家」,而非「『国家』的一省」
summary: - "Taiwan" is PRACTICALLY a <country>, but not "Province of <country>" |
- zh_TW: 「台灣」實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」 | zh_CN:「台湾」实际上是一个「国家」,而非「『国家』的一省」
+ Taiwan is PRACTICALLY a "<country>", but not "Province of <country>" |
+ zh_TW: 台灣實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」 | zh_CN:台湾实际上是一个「国家」,而非「『国家』的一省」
description: updated
summary: Taiwan is PRACTICALLY a "<country>", but not "Province of <country>" |
- zh_TW: 台灣實際上是一個「國家」,而非「『國家』的一省」 | zh_CN:台湾实际上是一个「国家」,而非「『国家』的一省」
+ zh_TW: 台灣「在事實上地」是一個「<國家>」,而非「<國家>的一省」 |
+ zh_CN:台湾「在事实上地」是一个「<国家>」,而非「<国家>的一省」
description: updated
To post a comment you must log in.
This report contains Public information  Edit
Everyone can see this information.

Other bug subscribers