Kubuntu Indian & East Asian language display and input not as good as Ubuntu

[Yao Ziyuan]

Binary package hint: skim

Kubuntu's support for Indian & East Asian language display and input is not as easy-to-use as Ubuntu's.

For Indian & East Asian language input, Kubuntu uses SKIM but it is not easy to set up and configure. On Ubuntu GNOME SCIM works out of the box. SKIM should also work out of the box and allow typing in all the languages for which input methods were installed at install time. The ideal user experience is that the system automatically sets up commonly used input methods and make them available in a SKIM tray icon after the user indicates his working language during Kubuntu installation. We need such a zero configuration treatment!

Also, Kubuntu's default Chinese font is informal (rather than the formal font commonly used in Chinese publications and software) and does not display all characters correctly. I suggest that Kubuntu uses the open source Chinese font "wenquanyi" whose homepage is http://wqy.sourceforge.net/en/

[Ming Hua (minghua)]

Scim-chinese is the old source package name of scim-pinyin. It's irrelevant here.

[Yao Ziyuan (yaoziyuan)]

It seems in Hardy Alpha 4 if I choose Chinese as the Installation
Language (which also implies it will be the default System Language
after installation), the installed Hardy will have a good Chinese
display font and immediate availability of Chinese input (Ctrl+Space),
although some Chinese characters shown in the Login Window are broken
(displayed as small dots).

But if I choose English as the Installation Language during a Hardy
Alpha 4 installation and later "Install and Add Language: Chinese" in
"System Settings > Regional & Language", there won't be immediate
availability of Chinese input.

On 2/4/08, Ming Hua <email address hidden> wrote:
> Scim-chinese is the old source package name of scim-pinyin. It's
> irrelevant here.
>
> ** Changed in: scim-chinese (Ubuntu)
> Status: New => Invalid
>
> --
> Kubuntu East Asian language display and input not as good as Ubuntu
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/181300
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>

[Yao Ziyuan (yaoziyuan)]

Now I have found a solution to this bug:

Currently there are two distros that can make East Asian language
input available to the user's KDE desktop as a tray icon if the user
chooses/adds a East Asian language in his system, WITHOUT FURTHER
CONFIGURATION BY THE USER:

(1) Ubuntu, with which if you first add Chinese language support in
its System > Administration and enable "Input of Complex Scripts" (now
you will have the scim icon on system tray) and then install
kubuntu-desktop and then log into a KDE session, you will
automatically be able to input East Asian characters by pressing
Ctrl+Space to activate scim (in Ubuntu's KDE environment, there is no
scim icon on the system tray, but Ctr+Space still can invoke a SCIM
input method);

(2) Fedora 8 KDE Live CD, with which if you add Chinese language
support in its Control Center, you will automatically see the scim
icon added to the system tray. And Ctrl+Space can invoke a SCIM input
method.

These two distros share the same way to their succcess of making SCIM
available with zero user configuration:
1. They don't use SKIM at all (unlike Kubuntu);
2. The SCIM tray icon they make available belongs to SCIM itself, and
SCIM itself has a GTK front-end. So this tray icon is actually a GTK
applet that runs on the KDE taskbar.
3. The remaining task is figure out how to configure SCIM so that the
end user can see such a SCIM tray icon. I leave this problem to you
guys...

How to verify that you have successfully figured out an automatic
configuration procedure?
(1) There should be a "keyboard"-like tray icon;
(2) Right clicking this tray icon should lead to a popup menu showing
"Configure SCIM", "Reload Configuration", "Stick Window", "Hide
Toolbar", "Help", "Exit" (translated from Chinese translations).
(3) Left clicing this tray icon should see a list of available
languages and for each language a submenu of available input methods.
IT SHOULD NOT BE AN EMPTY MENU.

[Yao Ziyuan (yaoziyuan)]

On Feb 9, 2008 8:10 AM, Ziyuan Yao <email address hidden> wrote:
> Now I have found a solution to this bug:
>
> Currently there are two distros that can make East Asian language
> input available to the user's KDE desktop as a tray icon if the user
> chooses/adds a East Asian language in his system, WITHOUT FURTHER
> CONFIGURATION BY THE USER:
>
> (1) Ubuntu, with which if you first add Chinese language support in
> its System > Administration and enable "Input of Complex Scripts" (now
> you will have the scim icon on system tray) and then install
> kubuntu-desktop and then log into a KDE session, you will
> automatically be able to input East Asian characters by pressing
> Ctrl+Space to activate scim (in Ubuntu's KDE environment, there is no
> scim icon on the system tray, but Ctr+Space still can invoke a SCIM
> input method);
>
> (2) Fedora 8 KDE Live CD, with which if you add Chinese language
> support in its Control Center, you will automatically see the scim
> icon added to the system tray. And Ctrl+Space can invoke a SCIM input
> method.
>
> These two distros share the same way to their succcess of making SCIM
> available with zero user configuration:
> 1. They don't use SKIM at all (unlike Kubuntu);
> 2. The SCIM tray icon they make available belongs to SCIM itself, and
> SCIM itself has a GTK front-end. So this tray icon is actually a GTK
> applet that runs on the KDE taskbar.
> 3. The remaining task is figure out how to configure SCIM so that the
> end user can see such a SCIM tray icon. I leave this problem to you
> guys...

First, you guys should refer to Ubuntu's procedure of installing and
configuring SCIM. This way at least you can make SCIM available to
Kubuntu's KDE desktop when the user presses Ctrl+Space. It would be a
bonus if you can further figure out how Fedora 8 KDE LiveCD manages to
put the SCIM tray icon to the KDE taskbar. This should also be easy
because by running "scim -d" (without running SKIM at the same time)
you should be able to see SCIM entering the system tray. The hard part
is to make sure when left-clicking this icon you can see a non-empty
list of languages and for each language, a submenu of available input
methods. The Chinese/Japanese user communities should already have
figured out the configuration procedure for this. Ask them.

>
> How to verify that you have successfully figured out an automatic
> configuration procedure?
> (1) There should be a "keyboard"-like tray icon;
> (2) Right clicking this tray icon should lead to a popup menu showing
> "Configure SCIM", "Reload Configuration", "Stick Window", "Hide
> Toolbar", "Help", "Exit" (translated from Chinese translations).
> (3) Left clicing this tray icon should see a list of available
> languages and for each language a submenu of available input methods.
> IT SHOULD NOT BE AN EMPTY MENU.
>

[Yao Ziyuan (yaoziyuan)]

According to a post in a Chinese Kubuntu user community, a correct way
of configuring scim for KDE is:

sudo apt-get install scim scim-pinyin scim-tables-zh im-switch -y
sudo apt-get install scim-qtimm scim-bridge scim-bridge-client-gtk -y
sudo apt-get install scim-bridge-client-qt scim-bridge-agent -y
im-switch -s scim

Then edit /etc/X11/xinit/xinput.d/scim:

replace: GTK_IM_MODULE=scim
with: GTK_IM_MODULE="scim-bridge"

replace: QT_IM_MODULE=scim
with: QT_IM_MODULE="scim-bridge"

On Feb 9, 2008 8:24 AM, Ziyuan Yao <email address hidden> wrote:
>
> On Feb 9, 2008 8:10 AM, Ziyuan Yao <email address hidden> wrote:
> > Now I have found a solution to this bug:
> >
> > Currently there are two distros that can make East Asian language
> > input available to the user's KDE desktop as a tray icon if the user
> > chooses/adds a East Asian language in his system, WITHOUT FURTHER
> > CONFIGURATION BY THE USER:
> >
> > (1) Ubuntu, with which if you first add Chinese language support in
> > its System > Administration and enable "Input of Complex Scripts" (now
> > you will have the scim icon on system tray) and then install
> > kubuntu-desktop and then log into a KDE session, you will
> > automatically be able to input East Asian characters by pressing
> > Ctrl+Space to activate scim (in Ubuntu's KDE environment, there is no
> > scim icon on the system tray, but Ctr+Space still can invoke a SCIM
> > input method);
> >
> > (2) Fedora 8 KDE Live CD, with which if you add Chinese language
> > support in its Control Center, you will automatically see the scim
> > icon added to the system tray. And Ctrl+Space can invoke a SCIM input
> > method.
> >
> > These two distros share the same way to their succcess of making SCIM
> > available with zero user configuration:
> > 1. They don't use SKIM at all (unlike Kubuntu);
> > 2. The SCIM tray icon they make available belongs to SCIM itself, and
> > SCIM itself has a GTK front-end. So this tray icon is actually a GTK
> > applet that runs on the KDE taskbar.
> > 3. The remaining task is figure out how to configure SCIM so that the
> > end user can see such a SCIM tray icon. I leave this problem to you
> > guys...
>
> First, you guys should refer to Ubuntu's procedure of installing and
> configuring SCIM. This way at least you can make SCIM available to
> Kubuntu's KDE desktop when the user presses Ctrl+Space. It would be a
> bonus if you can further figure out how Fedora 8 KDE LiveCD manages to
> put the SCIM tray icon to the KDE taskbar. This should also be easy
> because by running "scim -d" (without running SKIM at the same time)
> you should be able to see SCIM entering the system tray. The hard part
> is to make sure when left-clicking this icon you can see a non-empty
> list of languages and for each language, a submenu of available input
> methods. The Chinese/Japanese user communities should already have
> figured out the configuration procedure for this. Ask them.
>
>
> >
> > How to verify that you have successfully figured out an automatic
> > configuration procedure?
> > (1) There should be a "keyboard"-like tray icon;
> > (2) Right clicking this tray icon should lead to a popup menu showing
> > "Configur...

[Yao Ziyuan (yaoziyuan)]

Also refer to SCIM's official configuration guide:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InputMethods/SCIM/Setup

[Ming Hua (minghua)]

On Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 01:12:05AM -0000, Yao Ziyuan wrote:
>
> Also refer to SCIM's official configuration guide:
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InputMethods/SCIM/Setup

This is just some documentation written by users on the wiki, and is by
no means "official".

Ming
2008.03.02

[Yao Ziyuan (yaoziyuan)]

"freeflying" in the IRC channel #kubuntu-devel claimed to have solved
this bug and committed the fix to the respository.

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 12:38 AM, Ming Hua <email address hidden> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 01:12:05AM -0000, Yao Ziyuan wrote:
> >
> > Also refer to SCIM's official configuration guide:
> >
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InputMethods/SCIM/Setup
>
> This is just some documentation written by users on the wiki, and is by
> no means "official".
>
> Ming
> 2008.03.02
>
> --
>
>
> Kubuntu East Asian language display and input not as good as Ubuntu
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/181300
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>

[Michael Ummels (urmel291)]

I don't see the point of using scim instead of skim in a KDE environment, at least not for Chinese (for Korean, it is a different story, since skim has no configuration module). Skim is working fine for me when typing Chinese.

[Yao Ziyuan (yaoziyuan)]

Yeah, skim works fine for me for a long time now (because it is
correctly configured).

Currently there's two ways to get scim, skim, pinyin working under Kubuntu:
Way #1: Install Ubuntu first, and then enable Chinese and "complex
script input support", and then install kubuntu-desktop (then KDE
sessions will automatically have input methods by Ctrl+Space).
Way #2: Choose Chinese during Kubuntu installation (not after
installation). For Kubuntu 7.10, this will lead to a login window
containing broken Chinese characters. 8.04 Beta reportedly has solved
this bug. But all in all, I think way #1 is more flexible because many
people want to be free to switch system locale.

I also find Kubuntu/KDE's concepts extremely confusing: "Installed
Languages", "System Language", "Default Language", "Added Languages".
It should have a simple language-selector user interface as seen in
Ubuntu and Fedora: a simple list of available languages, with
checkboxes before them meaning whether a language is enabled (when
enabling a language, the system automatically installs it if it's not
yet installed). And if Chinese is enabled, the system automatically
enables Chinese input support. I think this should be the way
Kubuntu/KDE handles things.

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 6:00 AM, Michael Ummels <email address hidden> wrote:
> I don't see the point of using scim instead of skim in a KDE
> environment, at least not for Chinese (for Korean, it is a different
> story, since skim has no configuration module). Skim is working fine for
> me when typing Chinese.
>
>
>
> --
> Kubuntu East Asian language display and input not as good as Ubuntu
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/181300
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>

[Shriramana Sharma (jamadagni)]

Following the steps on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=452018&highlight=skim+kde enabled me to start using SKIM on Kubuntu Gutsy and Hardy. But really SKIM should work out of the box in Kubuntu. It's a shame that my father, a hard-and-fast GNOME user is able to say "Ubuntu is better than Kubuntu for entering Indian languages" to a hard-and-fast KDE user like me.

[Yao Ziyuan (yaoziyuan)]

This bug report is for Kubuntu Gutsy and out-of-date. Kubuntu Hardy's Chinese displaying is perfect now, and its Chinese input (or SCIM in general) has been better configured, but still has a small bug that prevents immediate availability of input methods, which I documented in a new bug report:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scim/+bug/219513

[Shriramana Sharma (jamadagni)]

Correct to my previous comment. The steps outlined in that Ubuntu Forums thread only help me get Skim working on Hardy amd64, not i386. I still have problems with Skim on i386.

Please can we have this bug fixed? I'm tired of seeing Kubuntu play second fiddle to Ubuntu and it's all the more frustrating since I don't know any coding that can help.

[xteejx (xteejx)]

Thank you for taking the time to report this bug and helping to make Ubuntu better. You reported this bug a while ago and there hasn't been any activity in it recently. We were wondering if this is still an issue for you. Can you try with the latest Ubuntu release? Thanks in advance.

[xteejx (xteejx)]

We are closing this bug report because it lacks the information we need to investigate the problem, as described in the previous comments. Please reopen it if you can give us the missing information, and don't hesitate to submit bug reports in the future. To reopen the bug report you can click on the current status, under the Status column, and change the Status back to "New". Thanks again!

[ZhengPeng Hou (zhengpeng-hou)]

To my knowledge,
the experience for CJK user is not as good as it is in GNOME side, at
least its a whishlist to improve it.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:15 PM, Teej <email address hidden> wrote:
> We are closing this bug report because it lacks the information we need
> to investigate the problem, as described in the previous comments.
> Please reopen it if you can give us the missing information, and don't
> hesitate to submit bug reports in the future. To reopen the bug report
> you can click on the current status, under the Status column, and change
> the Status back to "New". Thanks again!
>
> ** Changed in: skim (Ubuntu)
>       Status: Incomplete => Invalid
>
> ** Changed in: scim (Ubuntu)
>       Status: Incomplete => Invalid
>
> ** Changed in: scim-pinyin (Ubuntu)
>       Status: Incomplete => Invalid
>
> ** Changed in: unidistro-kde-desktop (Ubuntu)
>       Status: Incomplete => Invalid
>
> --
> Kubuntu Indian & East Asian language display and input not as good as Ubuntu
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/181300
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to scim-
> pinyin in ubuntu.
>