Guys, I think the debate is going in to the wrong direction.

I stumbled across this via planet ubuntu and I really want to add my thoughts here.

I plan to switch from fedora 9 to ubuntu 810 asap. While fedora almost always has the latest versions of desktop (and not only this) software available, the whole distro feels unstable to me (bad network manager integration, bad cups integration etc.) and on top of this their hardcore hackers don't like desktop users (they don't like gstreamer related topics in their launchpad equivalent). 
But I like to work on a stable, unbroken env.
So back to ubuntu, no, to kubuntu for me - if I need the latest software release of something, I can add this by myself now.

So I am not really affected by the decision of not having ooO in ubuntu 8.10. - If this really will happen - I will install it manually (via .deb or whatever).

But anyway. I see two major arguments in this debate here for holding ooO v.3 back:

1. It's to late now - it can't be integrated after the feature freeze because it is to complex and has to many dependencies to build a package - also there is no time to test it the right way - it might be unstable.

2. The masses will use ubuntu without asking questions. They want a out of the box "working" experience, they don't care if it's 2.4 or 3.0 - as long as it works like they want.

I think, both arguments are *not* correct / fair.

Lets look into *1.* I seriously do believe that it is not a problem for a serious packager to create a fully working deb within 1 day. Maybe ooO is a b**ch to pack - but that's why I am talking about "serious" and I mean experienced packagers. Even with the dependencies, the language packs and so on. That's daily routine for a packager. Also - there is not much need to test it *entirely*. If there are some aspects of ooO which interact with other ubuntu features (I couldn't think of even one), then those are the ones which should be tested in an intense way. Anything else is already tested by the OpenOffice folks. That's why they had some RCs before releasing 3.0 .  If there are problems with ooO - no one from the user base will blame ubuntu for it - the ooO guys have to react then - and all the ubuntu team has got to do is to release a patch within its update repositories. Right? On the other side: I mean. I had ubuntu 7.10 last year (yes, before switching to fedora 9) and there was gimp 2.4 RC1 in it - remaining for MONTHS unpatched (gimp 2.4 final was out, bedore ubuntu 7.10 was released).  So if this is going to be the fate for ooO too - ok - than stick on 2. 4 - but expect the consequences (I'll talk about consequences later).

Point2 (most of the users won't realize this anyway): Where is the proof about what kind of user base ubuntu has? Who is telling that the masses of ubuntu users bought their stuff at wall mart (something more or less completely unknown in Europe btw.) and don't know / don't wanna know about linux and stuff, especially version numbers of software packages? 
I agree - this usergroup might exist. But I believe the opposite. I guess the largest group of users dealing with ubuntu are guys which switch from windows, like compiz, are proud to show they can handle linux and expect to have access to knew software exactly like they had on windows. Which they don't. If in germany the Spiegel (a popular mainstream mag) writes about ooO v.3 - ubuntu users with windows experience of course want to install it - but they surely can't - there is no install.exe, the repositories show v.2.4 for months and how to add a new repository is out of their skills (and, I know, I know, not even recommended in terms of stability and later distro updates, dependencies blabla). So the only thing ubuntu could do to satisfy this large group of potential users is to have the *latest* software in it, when the release comes - and this should do it for 6 months from now on. 
So maybe I am wrong, and the wall mart dudes are the bigger group. Maybe I am right, and the converted windows guys are the biggest group. Maybe to our all surprise the largest group of ubuntu users consist of disappointed slackware users. BUT WHO KNOWS?

* What I do know, is, what the press will write. * 

They will write: Hey, thanks to kernel 2.6.27 (released after feature freeze) we have cool wireless, cool bluetooth, and thanks to the new X.org our 2 Screen setup fails now (*cough*). But hey: Gimp 2.6 (released after feature freeze) Gnome 2.24 (released... you know when) and KDE v.4.1.* are great. The only thing which is strange is: Open Office is still on v.2.4 - so there is no way to open MS Office 2007 xdocs (xdoc is standard there). 
If you want to work further on your MS Office 2007 documents but want to switch to an easy to use linux distro then better consider to switch to open suse or mandriva - they are also absolutely easy to install, have the same software base but they even work like a charm with MS Office 2007 stuff. Its of course possible to install Open Office 3 on your own - but then you might consider to switch to a distro for more experienced users like fedora, debian or errm gentoo. 

It would be a pity. There is so much good stuff in 8.10 - and then the press will b**ch about the old office version. 
And then the windows users... "Why should I install ubuntu - they do not even have the 1 month old Open Office 3 inside!!". If I would still stick on windows, my first look would be on the blender version. I am sure it's not 2.48 :)
 
It's just my personal cup of tea. No hard feelings :)

Herr Irrtrum / Italy