Lol, that's not ugly. Ugly is taking out a feature in a program that many have come to rely on without even documenting it on the change log. Ugly is doing so because it might generate more emails about support on scripts that they have no control over because obviously it takes too long to ask "list the contents of the pre-up, pre-down folders here, to make sure there isn’t something new in there that might be timing out." Ugly is saying that if you need to get something done that was previously in those folders, you need to do it somewhere else, without suggesting an option. Ugly is also expecting those scripts or commands that someone has been relying on, that load at a specific phase, that might impact security, to be moved somewhere else so that it's not their problem (yes, I know, it was never their problem, but rather the user/admin). The scripts/commands still need to be loaded, they could still time out, but now they won't hear about it so problem solved? Very ugly is doing all of the above on an operating system that has been looked down upon by many before because it simply "is not windows" (read dumbbed down or "user friendly") while at the same time having the best record for reliability. When so many (including I) have come to love, and prefer this snappy, reliable? and customizable? OS (which frankly is a hell of a lot more "user friendly" now, to the point where if there were more games/commercial apps being developed for it I would ditch Windows in a heartbeat) and encounter things like this, is quite disappointing. Very hard to defend it when its best quality is being "community driven" and customizable and that is obviously not true in this case. Hell if all linux devs think this way then Grub needs to go away because it might not load one of the images or it might time-out. Take out startup scripts before logon, after logon, or on Desktop load for the same reason, I'm sure they will get less emails/bugs that way. As a matter of fact take out all possible scripts from loading at any time...just give us a hardcoded OS, wait, don’t they call that Windows? Nope, they actually have startup scripts...see a pattern yet? This email has gone on for way too long and a bit (ok, a lot) of frustration is showing. I appreciate the work of the developers, especially when it's done without any retribution other than the appreciation of the users. I really love the open source mentality and community, so please do not get offended or mad at my ranting. In the spirit of being "open" I had to vent and give my $20.50 (all out of two cents). I apologize if I seem a bit bitter and strong about it, I could be wrong about all of it. I have been wrong many times before. Thank you, Marlon -----Original Message----- From: