Window close button is clickable anywhere in the corner

[Mark Shuttleworth]

Binary package hint: light-themes

The close button, now that it is in the corner, is too clickable because it is possible to click anywhere to the left of it and still activate it. That makes the close button quite a bit larger than the other two buttons, when it should be the same size. The space to the left of the button, between the button and the edge of the window, should not be clickable.

[scholli (scholli-tz)]

With the newest updates and light-themes version 1.6.3 I can't confirm it that it happens to me. I never noticed this bug, but maybe somebodies haves... it's worth for investigate it.

[Bernhard (b.a.koenig)]

scholli: this is only for maximized windows.

[Kenneth Wimer (kwwii)]

I can confirm the bug (only for maximised windows).

[Kenneth Wimer (kwwii)]

The outer most button in any theme exhibits this behaviour with maximised windows. I tested it by moving the buttons in 100px, result: 100px of click-able close button.

[Kenneth Wimer (kwwii)]

http://paste.ubuntu.com/411081/ shows that this is intended behaviour from metacity.

[Kenneth Wimer (kwwii)]

We can work around this in the theme by moving the buttons to the left edge. That would detract from the intended design.

@Didier: would it be possible to fix this in metacity in time for Lucid?

[Didier Roche-Tolomelli (didrocks)]

@Kenneth: right, that should be easy now that I narrowed to the code used for that.
Now, do we want that? (I suspect this was done for people activating accessibility layer with "gluing border" and maybe we can have side effect. As you told, either that or moving the buttons to the left edge. Just waiting for an ack before working on that (it should be less than an hour to patch and test effectively we don't have obvious regression)

[Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)]

On 08/04/10 15:43, Kenneth Wimer wrote:
> We can work around this in the theme by moving the buttons to the left
> edge. That would detract from the intended design.
>

No, that's not a good solution. I would specifically request that we have:

 - dead (draggable) space to the left of the close button
 - the close button being the same size (clickable area) as the other
two buttons

Mark

[Didier Roche-Tolomelli (didrocks)]

metacity 1:2.30.0-0ubuntu1 contains a patch fixing that behavior and some issues with button layout presentation.

It's waiting for beta2 unfreeze and will be available then.

[James Schriver (dashua)]

I'm not seeing this effect at all, but I'm then again I'm using 13_better_support_for_button_layout.patch. :)

[Didier Roche-Tolomelli (didrocks)]

lucid is unfrozen, the fix is available now.

[Lucazade (lucazade)]

I can't close anymore a maximized window just left-clicking in the top right corner.
(I don't have a top panel and I don't use new themes)
This a great regression in usability.. make this patch theme-dependent please!

[Mark Curtis (merkinman)]

This wasn't a bug with the human theme even though its close button has an "infinite width" why is it considered one with the light themes?

[Kenneth Wimer (kwwii)]

In the human theme, the buttons was much closer to the edge. I think this reduced the number of people who noticed the bug.

[Dylan McCall (dylanmccall)]

More likely, in my view: The human theme has a very visible prelight for the close button. The Ambience theme does not; there is really no way to tell whether you are hovering over (or even clicking) the button unless you're a pixel counter :b

Thus, one could have the pointer positioned at the top right and not realize that, upon clicking, they will hit the close button. So, someone tries to drag the window from the top left, but nothing happens (pointer doesn't change). He releases the mouse button and the window is unexpectedly closed.

Was that patch actually being adopted into official upstream Metacity? If not, it's a very significant divergence. I recommend holding off on it, maybe trying to fix the problem from Ambience first.
(Having said that, I for one am content being able to drag the window from the corner).

[Chris Norman (vredley-deactivatedaccount)]

Sorry for submitting Bug #560118; I didn't realise that this issue was still open for discussion, because it had been marked 'Fix Released'.

My views concur with those of Lucazade. Having to navigate to the close button with my touchpad is driving me up the wall.

[Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)]

On 10/04/10 21:29, Dylan McCall wrote:
> More likely, in my view: The human theme has a very visible prelight for
> the close button. The Ambience theme does not; there is really no way to
> tell whether you are hovering over (or even clicking) the button unless
> you're a pixel counter :b
>

Otto, Ken, I think Dylan has a point w.r.t. the subtlety of the
pre-lights for the window controls in Radiance / Ambiance. Please can
you publish some alternatives? Perhaps get Christian to knock up a dumb
mockup (static images only, with mouseover) of some variations for review?

Mark

[The Fiddler (stapostol)]

One possible compromise is to enable "infinite width" only for maximized windows. This is very useful for us with touchpads.

Attached patch implements infinite width and height for maximized windows.

[Chris Norman (vredley-deactivatedaccount)]

@Kenneth Wimer: could you explain the meaning of that tag, please?

[fubarbundy (launchpad-mailtic)]

This has screwed easily targetable corner buttons for everyone, not just Ubuntu theme users.

If I have a maximised window and no title bar, I can no longer throw my mouse to the corner and click to quickly close a window; I now have to aim at a TINY target. This is even more frustrating when using a trackpad.

Perhaps we should fix the all of the panel applets, especially the menu bar, trash, show desktop, and indicator session applets. They've all got infinite depth/height/width too... and don't forget that the scrollbars in *diance's GTK theme currently work all the way to the edge of the screen. Far too easy to use them at the moment too. </sarcasm>

If you really want to provide a comprehensive 'fix', it should meet these criteria:

- if a window's maximised and there's nothing between metacity and the edge(s) of t and there is no THEME-SPECIFIC padding around the buttons, they should be clickable to the edge(s) of the screen that the button sits next to (including corners for the corner buttons).

- if something's in the way at an edge (e.g. a top panel), don't have this infinite edge behaviour. OTOH, there is no reason that e.g. the edge-most button shoudn't be infinitely wide if there's nothing to the left and right, since this edge is useless otherwise.

- the maintainer of *diance should then do one of two things. Either change the maximised/in the corner appearance of the maximised buttons to indicate that they are clickable in the corners/on the edges (e.g. half/quarter circles against the edges/corners), possibly only if they're actually at a screen edge. If the maintainer doesn't want this behaviour for *diance's Metacity buttons, add some explicit functional padding around them. If that's not possible with an unpatched Metacity, patch Metacity to add a flag to optionally switch infinite edge behaviour. Even better, make it a gconf OPTION.

I welcome any feedback on why the above three points would not be better for all involved.

[Lucazade (lucazade)]

@fubarbundy
I totally agree with You, on all the three points, totally.

[Tammer Ibrahim (tammeri)]

@fubarbundy

Absolutely correct on all points. Even if this is a design decision, not providing any way to return to the standard behavior is not only frustrating, but lacking the spirit of the Linux and Ubuntu projects.

I don't think I've ever been more worried about the future of Ubuntu then I have at this point in its development. While the underlying OS is still a strong community effort that has produced something vastly superior to its competition, the same is not true of the GUI. A small group has decided that their ideas for innovation are the correct ones, and the community that maintains and refines the underlying OS via bug reports like these are at their whim when it comes to design.

This bug is a perfect example of this overarching issue. This "fix" is specifically targeted at Lucid, specifically because the new behavior makes the default Ambiance theme make slightly more sense. While in that I agree it's is a fix, the entire window design itself requires us to throw out Fitts's law and numerous other time and scientifically tested GUI standards. The only rationale for the changes made in relation to Ambiance have been that they will make room for "innovations" that have yet to materialize. We're losing usability in our current releases for the sake of a promise for yet more widgets in Maverick. (The future is not more window chrome! It's none at all, which is the irony of the Chrome browser's name. While I think client side window decorations and windicators could be an improvement, they're not innovation. And if Canonical's got some grand scheme to innovate past the completion, not only would I be surprised, but I'd be angered by their decision to gradually hinder usability on the way there.)

This is not a bug. This is an infestation.

I'm beginning to realize the problem could possibly be systemic to the structure of Ubuntu's development. I've heard it said that bug reports like these are not the place to hash out GUI decisions, and that's probably correct. The problem is there's no open forum to debating these decisions. A faulty feature is easily fixed with a bug report on Launchpad, but that's because there's little debate involved in whether or not a program has crashed.

I feel that the discussion on this report (as well as the thread that linked me to it: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1450784&highlight=window+controls+-at+top+corner&page=3) is enlightening, and offers a detailed glimpse into the vast difference between design and development. Unfortunately, as of yet there's no real place for design to be talked about across the community, and based on the control Canonical has taken over the OS design, I'm beginning to doubt there ever will be.

/rant. About the bug, a gconf setting would be a real fix.

[Steve Langasek (vorlon)]

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 06:08:43PM -0000, Tammer Ibrahim wrote:

> /rant. About the bug, a gconf setting would be a real fix.

There is a gconf setting. You could have saved yourself a rant and just
asked for it. :)

http://www.ubuntugeek.com/quick-and-easy-title-bar-button-side-switching-in-ubuntu-10-04-lucid9-10-karmic.html

--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/
<email address hidden> <email address hidden>

[Tammer Ibrahim (tammeri)]

@Steve Langasek

Thanks for the link, but the guide on that site is for simply moving the window controls back to the right, not extending the clickable range of the close button.

It appears that certain themes still retain their old behavior, so this may be resolved through modifying a theme to match its design.

[Christoph Noack (christophnoack-forum)]

Hi everyone, just another "comment". The strange behavior you are talking about is based on a usability fundamental.

Wikipedia (link below) explains: "Edges and corners of the computer display (e.g., Start button in Microsoft Windows and the menus and Dock of Mac OS X) are particularly easy to acquire because the pointer remains at the screen edge regardless of how much further the mouse is moved, thus can be considered as having infinite width."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law

The member fubarbundy explained that very well. So if you want to fix this behavior, then I affirm to:
a) improve the mouse-over highlighting
b) increase the size of the often-used close button in any case (might be another issue, but it is an issue)

Both a) and b) are solved very well in the "New Wave" theme (in terms of behavior, please do not only think in visual design).

@ Tammer Ibrahim: I just noticed that Fitt's Law had already been mentioned in the thread you linked to.

Bye,
Christoph (OpenOffice.org User Experience Team)

[David Stansby (dstansby-deactivatedaccount)]

As far as I can tell the original bug has been fixed. Can anyone else confirm this?

[David Stansby (dstansby-deactivatedaccount)]

Seems to be fixed for me in Maverick.

[Chris Norman (vredley-deactivatedaccount)]

Yes, the original bug was fixed in Lucid. We are now discussing Bug #560118, because this was deemed the appropriate place to do so.

Some people seem to be very annoyed by it. For example: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1515211 .

[riu (stanray)]

Take note of the Bug #564749 too.

[Chris Norman (vredley-deactivatedaccount)]

Thank you for the link, riu; perhaps Bug #564749 would be a better forum for discussion of this issue, despite aversion to "a chain of "yes, no, yes, no" bug reports." Dylan, how do you feel about that?

[Dylan McCall (dylanmccall)]

That looks good :)

The specific thing I was concerned about here is fixed, but my attachment to this is just that I think it shouldn't surprise people. The way the buttons are drawn should correspond directly with how they are interacted with. (Handy oversized clicking areas are nice, but they should be used with discretion).

I think that bug report does counteract the original intent a little, but it would do it much more elegantly than before and still have the other half of it I just described. It looks like a solid compromise.

Now that lots of people have used Lucid for a while as a production OS, maybe there is some useful data about whether the theory matches the real world.

[inane (inaneguy)]

Ok, I'd like to chime in here a moment, this whole not being able to throw my mouse into the corner is amazing asinine, this is a behavior that I have come to know and love for YEARS now with GNOME, and it's gone without even the option to set it back. Sure there are some themes that still enable this but only if the sizing of the buttons and the overall titlebar is right in that specific metacity theme!

Might I make a suggestion since we are in fact moving toward a "unity" or "gnome-shell" type interface in the future (regardless of the fact that gnome-panel works just fine). There should be a close and possibly minimize and maximize buttons in the corner of these interfaces. Personally, I use .desktop files that point to wmctrl scripts and use the images for close and maximize buttons of the Ambiance metacity theme. I put the close shortcut icon all the way in the corner of the panel and the maximize button right next to it. Works great for me. . .

If you want to play with them:

sudo apt-get install wmctrl

chmod +x maximizebutton closebutton

At the very least if we ARE in fact going to go to one of these "unity" or "gnome-shell" nonsense UI's, please allow me the ability to put standard.desktop files on em? Or is that too much to ask?

[inane (inaneguy)]

You could also just as well throw the wmctrl commands in the shortcut itself, I can't remember why I didn't do this in the first place. . . I think it's because I used them between different desktops, anyway here are the shortcut files, you still have to install wmctrl though.

[inane (inaneguy)]

I think the fact that this "bug" affected so few people and that it was never brought up before goes to show that it was never a bug in the first place, it was an "annoyance" for some people but the "fix" was a full blown disaster for many more. I don't like having to put close buttons on my panel to get behavior that had been INTENTIONALLY put in earlier because the behavior in this "fix" was the original default. . . wow, makes you wonder huh?

If 4 people complained about this "bug" that was in fact a usability fix, then perhaps the "fix" shouldn't have been applied to everyone, perhaps it should have been set up as a checkbox in gconf. . . insane.

[Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)]

On 21/07/10 23:29, inane wrote:
> Ok, I'd like to chime in here a moment, this whole not being able to
> throw my mouse into the corner is amazing asinine, this is a behavior
> that I have come to know and love for YEARS now with GNOME, and it's
> gone without even the option to set it back.
>

I take it then that you've been using a custom panel configuration?
Because in the default Ubuntu config, the top left corner has the
Applications menu in it, and the top right corner has the Session menu
in it.

In other words, the "throw it in the corner and click to close the
window" capability is not a feature of Ubuntu pre 9.10.

Our position on this is that the corner is reserved for access to
applications, or shutting down the machine. If you want to close the
window you need to click on the button for closing the window.

Mark

[inane (inaneguy)]

Hi Mark,

I'd just like the option to set it back, that is my only problem. I know I'm not the only one who likes the panel only on the bottom.

To give you a little information on my situation, I have a 30" monitor that's 2560 x 1600, so using two panels doesn't make sense for me, the default top panel has about 2,000 pixels of blank canvas I like to apply the "Window List" to that space. With two panels, I'm using 100,000 pixels for panels instead of just 50,000. I understand your reasoning though and I'm fine with simply adding a shortcut to the panel for closing the active window. I'm just glad that GNU/Linux is so versatile that I have these options available. Options are what makes the operating system so different from every other and the real value in it.

I can work around it just fine (hell I might even just start working on a panel app for this) but to leave out the option to change the behavior is the asinine part I was speaking about. Leaving out options and customization is a rather common reason many people have come to loathe Microsoft and Apple, and the greatest distinction that Free Software has.

[inane (inaneguy)]

BTW Mark, I'm seriously your biggest fan, ever since I first heard of you back in 2004! I LOVE my Ubuntu!

[Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)]

Thanks kind of you and appreciated. On the subject of options, though, I
would urge you to think through the full cost of adding an option. We
discussed it on the Ayatana list for another case where someone wanted
an option, check out
http://<email address hidden>/msg00416.html
for details.

Mark

[The Fiddler (stapostol)]

I am afraid you are slightly mistaken. In the default configuration, you
used to be able to throw the mouse to the right edge of the screen and only
aim vertically for the close button. While this is more difficult than
throwing the mouse to the corner, it is significantly easier than aiming a
16x16 area as we currently must.

Please note that this issue is less apparent the smaller the screen area is.
It is (almost) a non-issue on a 1280x800 laptop monitor but it is most
definitely an issue on a 1920x1200 or 2560x1600 monitor - and doubly so when
using multiple monitors.

For what it's worth, the "New Wave" theme does not suffer from this issue,
so a simple, temporary workaround exists.

2010/7/22 Mark Shuttleworth <email address hidden>

> On 21/07/10 23:29, inane wrote:
> > Ok, I'd like to chime in here a moment, this whole not being able to
> > throw my mouse into the corner is amazing asinine, this is a behavior
> > that I have come to know and love for YEARS now with GNOME, and it's
> > gone without even the option to set it back.
> >
>
> I take it then that you've been using a custom panel configuration?
> Because in the default Ubuntu config, the top left corner has the
> Applications menu in it, and the top right corner has the Session menu
> in it.
>
> In other words, the "throw it in the corner and click to close the
> window" capability is not a feature of Ubuntu pre 9.10.
>
> Our position on this is that the corner is reserved for access to
> applications, or shutting down the machine. If you want to close the
> window you need to click on the button for closing the window.
>
> Mark
>
> --
> Window close button is clickable anywhere in the corner
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/558327
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>
> Status in “light-themes” package in Ubuntu: Fix Released
> Status in “metacity” package in Ubuntu: Fix Released
>
> Bug description:
> Binary package hint: light-themes
>
> The close button, now that it is in the corner, is too clickable because it
> is possible to click anywhere to the left of it and still activate it. That
> makes the close button quite a bit larger than the other two buttons, when
> it should be the same size. The space to the left of the button, between the
> button and the edge of the window, should not be clickable.
>
> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/558327/+subscribe
>

[inane (inaneguy)]

I would certainly only ask for a gconf option.

[Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)]

How many people would set that? Each option doubles the number of code
paths that need testing if we want to put out a quality result. If only
1% of people would set that option (and gconf options are used much less
often than that) it's not worth it unless you are a maintainer of the
code yourself and it matters to you.

Mark

[inane (inaneguy)]

Well I'm willing to bet that there were more people that thought this a feature than a bug but no polls were taken on it. I certainly don't see where the bug is here or even how this bug should have ever been taken seriously. Amazing. Where is the bug? I just deeply don't understand that, but I looked past it and asked for an option and was told it wasn't feasible.

In this case, the argument for the option taking more extra work than necessary is a fallacy since the feature already existed without any issues. The additional work occurred when the feature I relied upon was deemed a bug.

[inane (inaneguy)]

There are at least as many people that think this fix is a bug itself:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/564749

Let me express my logic here:

1. Button is too easy to hit.

Ok, why is this a bug? The only possible reason I could think of is that it's too easy to hit and lose your data.

So the question should be, why is it so easy to lose your data when you close an application?

So the real but here should look like this:

1. Too easy to lose data when closing application.

The solution for this is to make it so that applications PROTECT THE DATA BETTER.

[The Fiddler (stapostol)]

Personally speaking, I cannot think of any application that will destroy
data if you accidentally hit the close button. They will either prompt you
whether you wish to save first (OpenOffice, Gimp, Gedit, Evolution, the scan
app, ...) or they will be able to resume from where you left (Firefox,
Chromium, ...)

The "too easy to lose data" argument is a strawman at best.

2010/7/23 inane <email address hidden>

> There are at least as many people that think this fix is a bug itself:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/564749
>
> Let me express my logic here:
>
> 1. Button is too easy to hit.
>
> Ok, why is this a bug? The only possible reason I could think of is
> that it's too easy to hit and lose your data.
>
> So the question should be, why is it so easy to lose your data when you
> close an application?
>
> So the real but here should look like this:
>
> 1. Too easy to lose data when closing application.
>
> The solution for this is to make it so that applications PROTECT THE
> DATA BETTER.
>
> --
> Window close button is clickable anywhere in the corner
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/558327
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>
> Status in “light-themes” package in Ubuntu: Fix Released
> Status in “metacity” package in Ubuntu: Fix Released
>
> Bug description:
> Binary package hint: light-themes
>
> The close button, now that it is in the corner, is too clickable because it
> is possible to click anywhere to the left of it and still activate it. That
> makes the close button quite a bit larger than the other two buttons, when
> it should be the same size. The space to the left of the button, between the
> button and the edge of the window, should not be clickable.
>
> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/558327/+subscribe
>

[inane (inaneguy)]

I, as well as you, know that. . . so my question to the original submitter would be, what is the problem with easy to close? Another issue is, if not for close, what are the left most and top most sides and the corner for? Resizing? Well, that wouldn't b useful if the window is maximized, and even if it weren't, there are three other corners to grab.

The new behavior makes it so, the corner where the close is, is an extra resizer. . . Why not just add another possible element to "close" "maximize" and "minimize" called "spacer". If somebody has such a big issue with accidentally closing their windows all the time, they can put a spacer in the corner instead of the "close". This is honestly ridiculous and regressive, when was it ever policy in an operating system to PURPOSELY make something harder to do?

[David Stansby (dstansby-deactivatedaccount)]

For me the problem isn't "too easy to close".

If I press the close button I expect the window to close. But if I press an area near to the close button which looks like part of the application bar I don't expect the application to close, I expect it to do whatever clicking on the application bar elsewhere would do. Personally I think that is the reason behind the original bug, and why I think it is a valid bug that needed a fix.

[The Fiddler (stapostol)]

Why would you click above or to the side of the close button on a maximized
window, if not by mistake? What would you expect to happen in that case?

2010/7/23 David Stansby <email address hidden>

> For me the problem isn't "too easy to close".
>
> If I press the close button I expect the window to close. But if I press
> an area near to the close button which looks like part of the
> application bar I don't expect the application to close, I expect it to
> do whatever clicking on the application bar elsewhere would do.
> Personally I think that is the reason behind the original bug, and why I
> think it is a valid bug that needed a fix.
>
> --
> Window close button is clickable anywhere in the corner
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/558327
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>
> Status in “light-themes” package in Ubuntu: Fix Released
> Status in “metacity” package in Ubuntu: Fix Released
>
> Bug description:
> Binary package hint: light-themes
>
> The close button, now that it is in the corner, is too clickable because it
> is possible to click anywhere to the left of it and still activate it. That
> makes the close button quite a bit larger than the other two buttons, when
> it should be the same size. The space to the left of the button, between the
> button and the edge of the window, should not be clickable.
>
> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/558327/+subscribe
>

[David Stansby (dstansby-deactivatedaccount)]

I wouldn't in that case, but I would when my window wasn't maximized, and it wouldn't really make much sense to have different behavior when the window was maximized

[The Fiddler (stapostol)]

Of course it makes sense to have different behavior when the window is
maximized. The use case is completely different.

Anyway, this is not a forum so I'm bailing out.

2010/7/23 David Stansby <email address hidden>

> I wouldn't in that case, but I would when my window wasn't maximized,
> and it wouldn't really make much sense to have different behavior when
> the window was maximized
>
> --
> Window close button is clickable anywhere in the corner
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/558327
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>
> Status in “light-themes” package in Ubuntu: Fix Released
> Status in “metacity” package in Ubuntu: Fix Released
>
> Bug description:
> Binary package hint: light-themes
>
> The close button, now that it is in the corner, is too clickable because it
> is possible to click anywhere to the left of it and still activate it. That
> makes the close button quite a bit larger than the other two buttons, when
> it should be the same size. The space to the left of the button, between the
> button and the edge of the window, should not be clickable.
>
> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/558327/+subscribe
>