lmms package depends on wine

[Russian redneck]

VST support must be optional when installing lmms. Maybe make a separate optional package "lmms-vst"
Xubuntu 13.10, lmms 0.4.15-0ubuntu1

[Israel Dahl (israeldahl)]

I am not sure that this is actually a bug. But it is true. I am not entirely sure that this is something that really needs to be fixed, though. Can you give me some really good reasons why this behaviour should be changed? There is nothing inside lmms to install VST support, nor would it be wise to add it (as LMMS runs on Windows as well and wouldn't need wine), so the end user might have a harder time finding it (though it could be put in the recommends).
Also, if this needs to be implemented would you be willing to test it? This bug cannot be fixed for Saucy, but can be fixed for Trusty. This is because Saucy has already reached release, but Trusty has yet to get to the feature freeze (which means no new programs, and very few major changes are allowed).

Thanks for taking the time to make LMMS better, I really appreciate the feedback!

[Russian redneck (otaku-8)]

> Can you give me some really good reasons why this behaviour should be changed?
Imagine that user make-installed Wine from sources. Now "apt-get install lmms" will lead to an error and most likely *buntu will try to send a crash report hereinto.

[Israel Dahl (israeldahl)]

Have you experienced this particular bug? I am assuming by make-installed you mean building wine from source using make install. I have already started working on your proposed fix, as I am building a version for trusty, and I am going to try to resolve the ugly icon issue for this LTS (the icon looks terrible in the dash because the rules file builds an xpm icon for the older menus... simply an artifact from lmms being abandoned in Debian for the past few years). Once I get it built for trusty successfully, and test it I will upload it to my ppa, and I would really appreciate it if you could test it. This way if the new version comes out, it will be very simple to build it from upstream source with the new fixes in place.
Please let me know if you are able to test it, or if you would like to help in any way.

[Russian redneck (otaku-8)]

> Have you experienced this particular bug?
I'm building Wine from sources coz i dislike Wine from Ubuntu repo and PPA. So i was not able to apt-get-install lmms until i created and installed my fake empty wine.deb
> if you are able to test it
I'll be glad to test Your build and PPA if i'll be able to install it without installing Wine and my fake wine.deb. But i'll not able to try VST.

[Israel Dahl (israeldahl)]

Great!! I am also working on getting the icon to be a better size for Unity. Which DE do you use? I will most likely test Unity and Lubuntu (my 2 favorites), so if you use Xubuntu/Kubuntu that would also help (sometimes large icons are displayed oddly in some DE) for making sure the icon doesn't look bad, especially since Ubuntu Studio uses XFCE.
I can test the lmms-vst package on my machine. I will end up testing it in 13.10, and a live USB 14.04.

[Russian redneck (otaku-8)]

I use Xubuntu 13.10 with XFCE and (when needed) LXDE.
Now i'm waiting for Your PPA

[Israel Dahl (israeldahl)]

Ok, I just created a recipe, and sent it to the build farm. It should be ready in about an hour. It is building a ppa for saucy and trusty, so I suppose you can use it in saucy. But testing it in both would be really nice.
I haven't tested it yet, but it built fine, so we shall see if it worked... I am not sure if the VST plugins work or not... so I will check that. See if you can install it without wine and run it just fine. Also, check the icon in the Xfce menu

https://code.launchpad.net/~israeldahl/+archive/lmms-testing

[Russian redneck (otaku-8)]

I tried to install Your builds, but "lmms" package still depends on "wine1.4" and "wine1.4-i386", and the packages' version is older than one in Ubuntu repo.

[Russian redneck (otaku-8)]

I think only "lmms-vst" must depend on them

[Israel Dahl (israeldahl)]

Ok, yeah I will need to restructure some things, the VST plugin doesn't work in this build, so I will have to do a few things. I will probably end up making the VST plugin install in lmms, and use lmms-vst as a package to install wine, instead of trying to make it install everything.
I will be out of town for a bit, so I will get back to this as soon as I can. Thanks for testing this, I appreciate your help!

[Israel Dahl (israeldahl)]

New build should be ready in about an hour. Please test it for me. Thanks so much! (I hope I this fixes your issue)

[Russian redneck (otaku-8)]

"lmms" and "lmms-common" install and work without Wine! And nice icon! But Update Manager tries to replace Your packages with ones from Ubuntu repo. I think their versions must be not "0.4.15-0~43" but something like "0.4.15-0ubuntu1israeldahl1"

[Israel Dahl (israeldahl)]

Thanks for testing it!! Are you on a 32bit machine? If so does the Vestige plugin still show up inside lmms? I will have to test this more extensively, but at least 2 of the major issues are resolved. As long as I don't break something (VST plugins) this will be great!
If I did break something... I will have to figure out just where I broke it, and I'll need you to test it again, that way we can make sure *everything* works for *everyone* I don't have Vestige on my 64 bit machine from the normal repo install, so I am not sure if something has been broken from my testing, or if I never had VST capability from the 64 bit, or if the last cycle (13.10) move to 0.4.15 (or earlier) broke something... I have only used VST a handful of times, and really like the fluid-soundfont-gm enough to not use VST for the stuff I do.
Thanks again for your help!!

[Russian redneck (otaku-8)]

I'm on 64bit machine but my Xubuntu is 32bit. I don't see VeSTige in LMMS (i didn't install lmms-vst).

[Russian redneck (otaku-8)]

I can make-uninstall Wine and test VST if needed

[Israel Dahl (israeldahl)]

 You are right, it is hard to install the package in the current state (I had to do `sudo apt-get install lmms=0.4.15-0~43~ubuntu13.10.1 lmms-common=0.4.15-0~43~ubuntu13.10.1 lmms-vst` to get it to work.)
I will try to fix that. I noticed another issue... it requires fluid-soundfont-gm (which is huge), I suppose I did that because it is AWESOME, but I think I need to move that to recommends.

I do not find Vestige at all... so that is a major problem. I will have to dig some and find out what is wrong there...
So, I will try to update the ppa to have a better naming scheme, and fix the VST problem

[Israel Dahl (israeldahl)]

Sorry for the long delay... I have been concentrating on getting 0.9.91 to build for trusty... I am sorry I didn't get a chance to test it and get VST/wine working right for this release... I had some serious issues to overcome, the rules file is MUCH better now, and there is MIME-type icons for mmp & mmpz files.
But I am working on a feature freeze exception right now to get it into 14.04
https://bugs.launchpad.net/lmms/+bug/1291675
if you want to chime in :)
I update the testing PPA to use the new version, but I have only tried a little to get wine to install in a separate package... sorry for that. So much of the internals have changed that I need to go through and re-figure out how to do everything I want to...

[Alex Peters (alex-peters)]

Is this still a current issue? The package for LMMS v1.0.0 doesn't seem to list Wine as a dependency.

[Russian redneck (otaku-8)]

cat ./DEBIAN/control

Package: lmms
Version: 1.0.0+stable-0ubuntu1
Architecture: i386
Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers <email address hidden>
Installed-Size: 12020
Depends: lmms-common (>= 1.0.0+stable-0ubuntu1), libasound2 (>= 1.0.16), libc6 (>= 2.15), libfftw3-single3, libfluidsynth1, libfontconfig1 (>= 2.9.0), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libjack-jackd2-0 (>= 1.9.5~dfsg-14) | libjack-0.116, libogg0 (>= 1.0rc3), libportaudio2 (>= 19+svn20101113), libpulse0 (>= 1:0.99.1), libqt4-xml (>= 4:4.5.3), libqtcore4 (>= 4:4.8.0), libqtgui4 (>= 4:4.5.3), libsamplerate0 (>= 0.1.7), libsdl1.2debian (>= 1.2.11), libsndfile1 (>= 1.0.20), libstdc++6 (>= 4.6), libstk0c2a, libvorbis0a (>= 1.1.2), libvorbisenc2 (>= 1.1.2), libvorbisfile3 (>= 1.1.2), libx11-6, libxext6, libxft2 (>> 2.1.1), libxinerama1, wine1.6-i386, zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4), stk
Recommends: tap-plugins, caps
Suggests: fil-plugins, mcp-plugins, omins, vcf, freepats, fluid-soundfont-gm

so it depends on wine1.6-i386
Xubuntu 14.04

[Israel Dahl (israeldahl)]

Yes this is still an issue.
It is a bit more complex than it initially seemed.
In order to remove Wine dependencies to a separate package the packaging will have to be totally changed.
I will have to go through an individually list each dependency separately for the build depends for the individual packages.

Currently it uses the nice easy Debian features that import the depends automatically to each portion of the package...

Unfortunately I have been very busy in the real world, and have not had enough time to commit to figuring out every single depends... but I will e-mail the developers about this to see if someone could kindly lend a hand.

I will be working on Vivid soon, and 1.1.X series is already close to being released. If I can figure out all of the parts that need to be separated I will build a PPA for testing.

[Israel Dahl (israeldahl)]

If you are running Utopic you can test the current build here:
https://code.launchpad.net/~israeldahl/+archive/ubuntu/lmms1.0.3utopic

[Israel Dahl (israeldahl)]

I have vestige in 64bit 14.10 and do not need wine with this current PPA

[Oskar Wallgren (oskar-wallgren13)]

Seem to have been fixed in 14.10 then. No wine depends in xenial anyway.
http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/lmms

Closing!