On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:42 PM, running_rabbit07
<email address hidden> wrote:
> Bob, your only reason for rejecting ubuntu's buttons is stubbornness.

You just relabeled my fact based objections as a form of moral failure
so that you could reject them without having to even consider that my
reasons may be valid. You are displaying a form of mental sloppiness
that borders on bigotry. In fact, it is the kind of mental sloppiness
that enables bigotry.

I do not expect you to under accept what I just said. But, please
consider that you are not me.

> The fact that your grand mother was using a computer shows she is

My last maternal grandmother died in the '60. My paternal grandmother
died in the '50s. I was writing about my mother in law. I suppose your
grandmother is in the same age range as my mother in law so you
skipped right over what I actually wrote and interpreted it in your
own frame of reference. It is import to learn to accept what is on the
page even when it contradicts what is in you mind.

Let's see, if your grandmother is the same age as my mother-in-law
then you are about the same age as my son. That means I've been using
X11 on some version of Unix longer than you have been alive. Which
tells me that you can not understand what I am saying because you have
not lived long enough to have the experience of living this long.

It's a funny thing. You can not actually understand an experience
without experiencing it. So, I'll lighten up on you a bit.

> capable of change being that most likely when she was born there were no
> TVs much less computers. How many people were really using desktop
> computers in the 70s?

Many millions if you go by the number of Apple IIs sold starting in
1977. Or the number of CP/M based computers sold starting around 1974.
But, I was talking about when I started using X11 which was in the
middle 1980s.

I did have the fun of using a text based windowing system written in
Lisp on a Dec 20. It displayed on a glass terminal. I think I was
using a DEC VT100. And, of course, I did a ton of applications in the
first version of TurboPascal which also use a text based windowing
system. But, that is not what I was talking about. Wrong decade and
wrong technology. I was talking about X11 on Unix on a 68000 based Sun
workstation and X11 on System5 Unix on several Mips based workstations
developed and sold by Evans & Sutherland and later on 64 bit Sparc
developed by (I wish I was kidding with this name) HaL computer
systems.


> Lets be real here. If you guys are really this
> stubborn how did you manage to actually leave Windows?

Indeed. Interesting question. Why do you think I every left windows?
Let's see. I started working with X11 after the r3 release. (I was our
companies representative to the X consortium and the guy responsible
for getting it running on our hardware.) X11R3 was released in
February '86. Windows 1 was released at the end of '85 and Windows 2
was released at the end '87. No body really used Windows until 3.0
came out in 1990 and no one really wanted to use it until 3.1 "windows
for work groups" came out in 1992. The first version of Windows that
could even be compared to X11 on Unix was Window '95 that came out in
1995. I first started using Windows in '94.

By the time I started using Windows I had been using X11 on Unix for 8
or 9 years.

I never moved away from Windows. I was forced to use Windows for
economic reasons and I still use it for the same reason.

Again, you are looking at things from your own frame of reference.
Windows did not exist in my world when I started using GUI based
computer systems. Windows barely existed at all.

>
> With every release there are whiners that scream they are leaving
> because the sky isn't blue enough in the new desktop background. I would
> think someone who claims to be a system admin for a company using ubuntu
> as their system would know how to make the small GUI change necessary to
> put the buttons back on the left for his whole company at install time.

I never claimed to be a system admin. I have never been a system
admin. I was talking about, and used examples based on, my home
network which consists of 8 to 10 PCs and a printer. The minor change
you mention has to be made for every user on every computer. That
means having to change the same damn thing 40 or 50 times. (I often
have one or more of my adult children and/or various friends and
people I meet who are in need of a place to stay living with me.)

Managing my home network is much like being a sys admin at a small
company. But, I am not and never have been a sys admin. I am a
teacher. I have been a software developer, a software development
manager, and a corporate technology analyst. But, not a sys admin.


>
> If you look at the subscribe list to the above right, you will see that
> Mark is no longer following this thread, so why are you arguing as if
> you think he will change his mind?

Why do you think I give a shit what Mark thinks? Right now I'm trying
to break down your particular brand of bigotry. All along I have been
trying to break down the weird ideas about human factors that I have
seen on this list. I have to wonder how many of you have actually
shipped a product to paying customers and had your ability to feed
your children depend on getting it right. I don't see that kind of
mind set anywhere on this list.

Bob Pendleton

>
> --
> [Master] Window Control buttons: position/order/alignment
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/532633
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of a duplicate bug.
>
> Status in “light-themes” package in Ubuntu: Won't Fix
> Status in “metacity” package in Ubuntu: Invalid
>
> Bug description:
> === Master Bug ===
> (As per the design team's request)
> All bugs concerning the window controls are being duped to this master bug.
> All the decisions regarding the position/order/alignment will be dealt as a one.
>
> === Desire ===
> "Please centre the window title like in previous Human theme, and also re-order the window controls in classic order, positioned on the right side (menu - title - minimize, maximize close)."
>
> ==== Workaround ====
> 1. Only new themes, such as Ambiance and Radiance will have buttons on the left by default. You can continue using old themes, such as Human, in Lucid and those themes will continue to have buttons on the right side (according to http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/577 ). It is even possible to switch to Human theme and then 'Customize' it to use all the elements from Radiance theme, but the button layout will stay on the right.
>
> 2. To revert to old layout, run in a terminal:
> $ gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/button_layout --type string "menu:minimize,maximize,close"
>
> ==== Responses ====
> Canonical Design Team Leader (Ivanka Majic) - 2010-03-10 and 2010-03-17
> http://www.ivankamajic.com/?p=281 ("Those pesky buttons")
> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/03/17/s03e03-behind-the-screen/ (30-minute interview starting at 39:10)
>
> Ubuntu SABDFL (Mark Shuttleworth) replies on this bug report - 2010-03-15 onwards
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/110
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/167
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/179
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/202 to 204
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/218
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/248
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/272
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/388
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/410
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/426 to 427
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/469
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/503
> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/532633/comments/564 ("Final decree"; close-min-max ordering)
>
> Canonical Ubuntu Community Leader (Jono Bacon) response - 2010-03-24
> http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/5683123 (6 minutes starting at 26:24)
>
> === Code of Conduct ===
> To maintain a respectful atmosphere, while commenting please follow the code of conduct - http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ .
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633/+subscribe
>



-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------
+ Bob Pendleton: writer and programmer
+ email: <email address hidden>
+ web: www.TheGrumpyProgrammer.com