All hotkeys of LibreOffice don't work in non-English keyboard layout [ubuntu 13.10]

Bug #1246583 reported by Adnan Quaium on 2013-10-31
272
This bug affects 61 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
LibreOffice
Confirmed
Critical
libreoffice (Fedora)
Unknown
Unknown
libreoffice (Ubuntu)
High
Unassigned

Bug Description

Hotkeys (Ctrl+b, Ctrl+s etc) in LibreOffice are language dependent and work in English language only. While writing in any other language i.e. any Cyrillic, it's impossible to use hotkeys, they just don't do anything. Switching to English input language enable hotkeys once again. This is very frustrating as user needs to switch language to save document, to make it bold, or italic, etc.

This was not experienced in Ubuntu 13.04.

Steps to reproduce:
1. System Settings > Text Entry.
2. Add another keyboard layout beside English [In my case it is Bengali (Probhat)]
3. Now launch Writer.
4. Switch the keyboard layout from English (US) to Bengali (Probhat) by pressing Ctrl+Space.
5. Press Ctrl+B to change font weight to bold.

Error:
Font weight does not get changed.

Expected:
Font weight should change to bold.

Note:
none other system hotkeys work as expected. I.e. Ctrl+s to save, or Ctrl+b to subscript, or Ctrl+i to italic etc.

Workaround:
The only way is to -
1. change the keyboard layout to English
2. then press desired hotkey
3. then switch keyboard layout back to Bengali.

The issue is critical, as it make writer very slow for keyboard-only typing.

ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 13.10
Package: libreoffice-core 1:4.1.2~rc3-0ubuntu1
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 3.11.0-12.19-generic 3.11.3
Uname: Linux 3.11.0-12-generic x86_64
ApportVersion: 2.12.5-0ubuntu2.1
Architecture: amd64
Date: Thu Oct 31 10:11:53 2013
ExecutablePath: /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin
InstallationDate: Installed on 2013-05-13 (170 days ago)
InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 13.04 "Raring Ringtail" - Release amd64 (20130424)
MarkForUpload: True
SourcePackage: libreoffice
UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to saucy on 2013-10-26 (4 days ago)

Hotkeys are language dependent and work in English language only.
While writing in any other language i.e. any Cyrillic, it's impossible to use hotkeys, they just don't do anything. Switching to English input language enable hotkeys once again.

This is very frustrating as user needs to switch language to save document, to make it bold, or italic, etc.

[This is an automated message.]
This bug was filed before the changes to Bugzilla on 2011-10-16. Thus it
started right out as NEW without ever being explicitly confirmed. The bug is
changed to state NEEDINFO for this reason. To move this bug from NEEDINFO back
to NEW please check if the bug still persists with the 3.5.0 beta1 or beta2 prereleases.
Details on how to test the 3.5.0 beta1 can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugHunting_Session_3.5.0.-1

more detail on this bulk operation: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/RFC-Operation-Spamzilla-tp3607474p3607474.html

Adding more info.

Verified and reproduced on: 3.4.3, 3.4.4, 3.5.0.beta1 and 3.5.0.beta2.
Mac OS X specific.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Launch Writer.
2. Change language to Russian.
3. Press Cmd+B to change font weight to bold.

Error: Font weight does not get changed. System error sound is played instead.

Expected: Font weight changed to bold.

Note that some other system hotkeys work as expected. I.e. Cmd+S to save, or Cmd+O to open document still work regardless of input language. Other critical key combinations that don't work: Cmd+I, Cmd+U and so on, all text manipulation hotkeys are English-only. One may assume that hotkeys don't work correctly in text area, but do work for UI.

Workaround 1: Click toolbar button to apply corresponding style.
Workaround 2: Change language to English, press desired hotkey, then switch language back to russian.

The issue is critical, as it make text editor very slow for keyboard-only typing.

*** Bug 57290 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Reproduced in 6.6.4.3 on Mac OS X 10.7.5.

I also confirm this in LibreOffice 3.6.3, and it is really annoying to change keyboard to En, only to use a shortcut and then change it back to whatever it was and then continue.

I use Fedora, but this problem was not occurred in Fedora 17 or Windows, as they both use a different keyboard handling method than Fedora 18 (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F18_bugs#Installer_does_not_automatically_set_up_multiple_keyboard_layouts_and_switch_command). But now in Fedora 18, lots of program are affected by this change.

Applications such as gedit, nautilus, fileroller (Archive Manager) which are parts of gnome act like before, which means there is no difference which keyboard layout is currently active, the keyboard shortcuts work OK. But other applications usually is not the same, like LibreOffice, Zim, Blender, ... .

So, I don't know where the problem is, but as (let say native) gnome applications are working fine, so there must be a way to solve this problem with others.

The problem still exist in LibreOffice 3.6.5.2 in Fedora 18.
I realy dont know why no developer really pay attention to fix this problem.
It may looks like that it is not important but it really affected the productivity of LibreOffice for non-Latin users.

Today I downloaded LibreOffice 4.0.0.3 from the official website and the problem still is there.

I also install all available desktops in Fedora 18 repo and test LibreOffice against theme to check whether the problem of keyboard shortcuts in non-latin layout is steal exist or not:

KDE: No problem
MATE: No problem
XFCE: No problem

LXDE: Problem exist
Cinnamon: Problem exist

All the three first desktops still use the same keyboard handling as they used to be, but Cinnamon is based on gnome 3 and inherits its problems, and I have no idea about LXDE problem.

I really hope someone at last pay some attention to this problem and attempt to fix it.

Today I also use the JHBuild tool on Fedora 18 to compile the Gnome 3.7.5 from their external module sets which contain the released tarbals. (http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/teams/releng/3.7.5)

Well, not too surprising, the problem is still exist using Gnome 3.7.5 and LibreOffice 4.0.0.3. This means that LibreOffice needs to make some changes in its keyboard shortcut handling, as it's likely that gnome is not and will not follow its old keyboard management.

I am really hoping some developer at least look at this bug and put some information or notes here.

Here is how some other big open source products fix this issue:

Mozilla:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=61190
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=307428&action=diff

Eclipse:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=61190

According to this page Chromium fix this in version 3.0.196 afterwards, so it might have something helpful:
http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=16806

And also a patch for Gnome which I don't know how to make it work:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=685676
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=230597

Sorry in last comment I sent the Eclipse link in Mozilla part.

*** Bug 62330 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Confirm this bug still exists in LibreOffice 4.0.2.2.
Very annoying. The only workaround is to use other apps, like gedit for example. All hotkeys work great in any language there.

Using ArchLinux with latest GNOME-Shell 3.8 from gnome-testing repo.

I can confirm the bug exists in LibreOffice 4.0.2.2 on MacOS X 10.8.3. It's not a Linux-specific bug.

I can not confirm the bug on 4.1.0.0beta1 on Ubuntu.
I selected a text, and pressed ctrl+b to make it bold.
I tested with the input configured as: English, Arabic, Turkish & French
results: normal behavior.

P.S.: I use cinnamon

*** Bug 63763 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

I have the same problem. When my keyboard layout is in a non-English language (in my case Fa) most shortcuts don't work (e.g. Ctrl+C, Ctrl+S, customized LO‌ shortcuts).

My system: Linux Mint Debian Edition Update Pack 6, XFCE 4.8, LibreOffice 3.5.4.2, both libreoffice-gnome and libreoffice-gtk packages installed.

(In reply to comment #5)
> ...
> Applications such as gedit, nautilus, fileroller (Archive Manager) which are
> parts of gnome act like before, which means there is no difference which
> keyboard layout is currently active, the keyboard shortcuts work OK. But
> other applications usually is not the same, like LibreOffice, Zim, Blender,
> ... .
Also in my case, as AshkanV mentioned in comment #5, many other applications work just fine. I'm in XFCE but I also have Gnome, KDE and Mate installed. And text editors of all of these DEs work correctly.

In the both links below they blame packages libreoffice-gtk or libreoffice-gnome.
http://en.libreofficeforum.org/node/1586#comment-26769
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1986133

Someone also suggested resetting LO user profile in duplicate Bug 63763:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile

However as mentioned in comment #13 this bug could be reproduced in LibreOffice 4.0.2.2 on MacOS X 10.8.3, which complicates the situation.

Sina, resetting profile does not help. Also this bug is reproducible in 4.1.0.4.

This bug is reproducible on gnome-shell in ubuntu 13.10, which handles now keyboard events with the new gnome-settings-daemon instead of directing them to X. It is indeed a crucial issue for all of us who happen to work with a non-latin language.

Still exists in LibreOffice 4.1.2.2.

Still exists in 4.1.2.3.

Adnan Quaium (adnan.quaium) wrote :
Launchpad Janitor (janitor) wrote :

Status changed to 'Confirmed' because the bug affects multiple users.

Changed in libreoffice (Ubuntu):
status: New → Confirmed
summary: - All hotkeys of LibreOffice don't work in non-English keyboard layout
+ All hotkeys of LibreOffice don't work in non-English keyboard layout
+ [ubuntu 13.10]
Changed in libreoffice (Ubuntu):
status: Confirmed → Opinion
status: Opinion → Confirmed
Muktadir (asifmuktadir) wrote :

it happens only in 13.10. It wasn't a problem with ringtail.

tags: added: regression-release
Changed in libreoffice (Ubuntu):
importance: Undecided → Medium
Andrey Azov (andrey-azov) wrote :

Isn't it partly a duplicate of bug 1226962? (https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1226962)

It was fixed, but only partly. For instance, shortcuts now work in Gedit regardless of the keyboard layout, but the Ctrl-Alt-T shortcut does not launch the Terminal if the layout is non-Latin.

And of course, Libreoffice shortcuts don't work.

Simos Xenitellis  (simosx) wrote :

I am running 13.10 with all updates applied. I have enabled English and Greek.
The LibreOffice shortcuts such as Alt+F (File menu) does not work either for English, neither for Greek.

Can someone verify whether the shortcuts work for English in LibreOffice?
Because if they do not work in English either, then the problem is wider.

(if someone has enable just a single keyboard layout, does that make a difference?)

Jon Hanna (jonhanna) wrote :

Simon, there's a difference between shortcuts for particular actions (such as Ctrl+S to save) and keyboard access to the menu via the alt key. The two work in different ways, or in the case of Libreoffice on Ubuntu, the two fail to work in different ways. Bug 739184 is about the issue you mention.

All hotkeys are not working in all keyboards, except English.

Verified and reproduced on: 4.1.2.3 on Ubuntu 13.10

Steps to reproduce:
1. Launch Writer.
2. Change language to Russian and write a text, then select a part of it.
3. Press Ctrl+X to cut a text.

Error: Text will be on screen

Expected: To cut selected text.

Workarounds to use toolbar buttons or select English keyboard layout, use shortcut, select Russian layout.

It is very important bug because make work very slow.

Dgtfeargr (dgtfeargr) wrote :

Simos, my friend, with the Engish language enabled all hotkeys are working in Libre Office. Unfortunately with the Greek language enabled none hotkeys is working

Adnan Quaium (adnan.quaium) wrote :

@Simos, all hotkeys are working in LibreOffice with the English layout. But none is working with the Greek layout.

madvinegar (madvinegar) wrote :

Just to add that this bug does not affect just LibreOffice.
I have installed Kingsoft office and I still get the same problem i.e. the hotkeys do not work in a non-English keyboard layout (a Greek keyboard layout in my case).

@madvinegar, others: Curious -- did anyone see this buggy behaviour on other DEs than unity (classic gnome, XFCE, KDE) or does it only happen on the unity DE?

*** Bug 55585 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

See https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55585#c0 for why this happens and how it could be fixed.

Copy paste on LibreOffice in a XFCE Guest session still works on Ubuntu 13.10 with Bengali layout.

Changed in df-libreoffice:
importance: Unknown → Critical
status: Unknown → Confirmed
Bogdan Yurov (nick4fake) wrote :

Guys, this is the only bug, not allowing me to move to 13.10. It is VERY critical! The bindings don't work in ANY JAVA APP!

Bogdan Yurov (nick4fake) wrote :

All keys in non-english keyboard map to 0x00. I tried everything -there is no workaround: setting english keymap the first, etc...

@Bogdan: You should then mark it as affecting those (not only LibreOffice as is right now).

Suggested workaround with keyboard mapping order does not work in Ubuntu 13.10.

*** Bug 59045 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

*** Bug 71358 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

== TESTS WE DO ==

This bug found in:
- Fedora 19 Gnome Shell
- Fedora 19 Mate
- Ubuntu 12.04 Unity
- Ubuntu 12.04 Cinnamon
- Ubuntu 13.10

This bug not found in:
- Fedora 19 KDE
- Mint 15 Cinnamon
- Mint 15 XFCE
- Debian 7.1
- Debian - nonstable XFCE
- Ubuntu 10.04 Gnome 2.30
- Arch KDE

Current behavior:
Accelators don't work
Expected behavior:
Accelators works

Operating System: Linux (Other)
Version: 4.1.2.3 release

The original report is from the Mac, but the recent storm is for gtk. There are different backends involved. So there are really two different bugs in here. A Mac one and a Gtk one.

Caolan McNamara committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=8cef6c7ec67aec88b339ca647e784afbabf190f8

Related: fdo#41169 fix GTK non-Latin keyboard layout with Latin shortcuts

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds
Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

Caolan McNamara committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-4-2":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=390b9d88c47347ebc714808979fcf8bd4e66f5c1&h=libreoffice-4-2

Related: fdo#41169 fix GTK non-Latin keyboard layout with Latin shortcuts

It will be available in LibreOffice 4.2.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds
Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

Adolfo Jayme (fitojb) on 2013-11-23
Changed in libreoffice (Ubuntu):
status: Confirmed → Triaged
importance: Medium → High

Caolan McNamara committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=82b5172954261e030a42bd6b3f4acc99807d0ee5

Resolves: fdo#41169 fix MacOSX non-Latin keyboard layout with Latin shortcuts

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds
Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

And the last patch should allow stuff like ctrl+b to work on the mac even if the current keymap is Russian, which is the other older half of this problem apparently.

Changed in df-libreoffice:
status: Confirmed → Fix Released

Caolan McNamara committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-4-1":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=d77483f0ab1a7f97ec41adfac66d98696adeef70&h=libreoffice-4-1

Related: fdo#41169 fix GTK non-Latin keyboard layout with Latin shortcuts

It will be available in LibreOffice 4.1.4.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds
Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

Caolan McNamara committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-4-1":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=5677b7a9e4d33d07e1f5ad9e5d591beb242c2dd6&h=libreoffice-4-1

Resolves: fdo#41169 fix MacOSX non-Latin keyboard layout with Latin shortcuts

It will be available in LibreOffice 4.1.4.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds
Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

Caolan McNamara committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-4-2":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=341dfe3a2e0f6f9e5bc1e7985cc4ccd00cf733ee&h=libreoffice-4-2

Resolves: fdo#41169 fix MacOSX non-Latin keyboard layout with Latin shortcuts

It will be available in LibreOffice 4.2.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds
Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

While I had trouble with this bug for a long time, I recently discovered that using m17n keyboard layout instead of xkb layout for Persian (fa_IR) completely resolves the problem in libreoffice 4.1.3 gnome 3.8.

(In reply to comment #37)
> While I had trouble with this bug for a long time, I recently discovered
> that using m17n keyboard layout instead of xkb layout for Persian (fa_IR)
> completely resolves the problem in libreoffice 4.1.3 gnome 3.8.

And I think the keyboard is actually Latin keyboard, my comment was completely irrelevant.

Changed in df-libreoffice:
status: Fix Released → Invalid

I could not verify the fix on a build from master, Debian testing 64bit, GNOME 3.8 with Hebrew keyboard layout.

While using the Hebrew layout I can't use CTRL+C/V or CTRL+O in LibO. Switching to another application (e.g. a web browser) I could paste with CTRL+V although I'm in the Hebrew layout.

Please test the 1:4.1.4~rc2-0ubuntu1~saucy1~ppa1 build from https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ppa as it should contain the fix per https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41169#c35.

Changed in libreoffice (Ubuntu):
status: Triaged → Incomplete
Bogdan Yurov (nick4fake) wrote :

Is there related bug for another java-applications? I can not switch to 13.10 as my IDE (IntellijIDEA) is also affected by this bug.

Gun (pinich) wrote :

To Björn Michaelsen (bjoern-michaelsen)
I just installed the latest libreoffice 4.2 from the ppa you mentioned and I still have this bug.
It's really annoying because it wastes a lot of time for simple tasks like COPY/PASTE etc.

ֹUnsure if this is the same bug or even related; however, the issue persists with the Hebrew keyboard layout (while absent in (a) other Hebrew layouts (lyx, phoenetic) (b) other languages, including RTL (Russian, Arabic tested)).

Ubuntu 13.10 64-bit
Unity 7.1.2
LibreOffice 4.2.0.4

Steps to reproduce:

1. Add Hebrew keyboard layout.
2. Open Writer.
3. Switch to Hebrew layout.
4. Type a string.
5. Attempt to use CTL+A/C/V/X.

Changed in df-libreoffice:
status: Invalid → Confirmed

Moving to mab4.1 (Bug 60270) because:
- 4.0 reached EOL (End Of Life)
- bug confirmed in later version

Eli Mitrani (eli-mit-g) wrote :

Using 13.10, Libreoffice 4.2, Gnome desktop

I found a workaround - after re configuring my keyboard settings using 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration' the Alt+Shift key combination for changing language works again.

This caused the following affects:
Press Super+Space: language changes, gnome language change displays on center screen, top bar display changes, hotkeys in when in Hebrew layout don't work.
Press Alt+Shift: language changes, top bar display changes, hotkeys in when in Hebrew **do** work.

*But* - when using Thunderbird I have this behavior:
Press Super+Space: language changes, gnome language change displays on center screen, top bar display changes, hotkeys work fine on both layouts.
Press Alt+Shift: top bar display changes language, hotkeys work fine, but language does not change back to Hebrew (keeps typing in English even when top bar displays Hebrew).

So the workaround is as follows:
In LibreOffice - use Alt+Shift
In Thunuderbird - use Super+Space.

Paulo Fino (finomeno) wrote :

Hello everyone!

After months of switching layouts and banging my head against this bug, I thought I should check LibreOffice settings (I'm using 4.1.5.3 now). What figures? I did find something. And in just a few clicks.

This is not a bug! It's simply a matter of configuration.

For the regular keyboard shortcuts (like Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, etc.) to remain operational in LibreOffice applications while using a non-latin keyboard layout (like Greek or Russian), go to Tools -> Options -> Language Settings -> Languages, check the Ignore system input language option, save, and Bob's your uncle.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

Hello everyone!

After months of switching layouts and banging my head against this bug, I thought I should check LibreOffice settings (I'm using 4.1.5.3 now). What figures? I did find something. And in just a few clicks.

This is not a bug! It's simply a matter of configuration.

For the regular keyboard shortcuts (like Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, etc.) to remain operational in LibreOffice applications while using a non-latin keyboard layout (like Greek or Russian), go to Tools -> Options -> Language Settings -> Languages, check the Ignore system input language option, save, and Bob's your uncle.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

PS
Technically, though, shortcuts still remain language-dependent. This means if you enable this option, you will have to set your document languages manually.

The problem is with formatting shortcuts like Ctrl-B/Command+B and Ctrl-I/Command+I shortcuts that still don’t work after Setting “Ignore system input language option”. Ctrl-S/Command-S works even without this setting.

Norbert (nrbrtx) wrote :

Possibly a duplicate of bug 1226962.

*** Bug 77163 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Ofer Cohen (oc666) on 2014-07-08
information type: Public → Public Security
information type: Public Security → Public
Ioram Gordadze (yoh0xff) wrote :

Ubuntu 14.04, installed libreoffice 4.3, this bug is still active. -_-

Haim (haim763) wrote :

I'm too, have this bug, in ubuntu 14.04.1. all the hotkeys Ctrl+?, Ctrl+Alt+?, Ctrl+Shift+? are not working. please fix it...

Hanan Sela (hans-013) wrote :

In ubuntu 14.04 libreoffice 4.2.7.2 I have removed libreoffice-gnome and libreoffice-gkt packges and it have solved the problem. Now when i use Hebrew layout the kaybord shrtcuts are working. My problem before this removal was only within libreoffice applications so i think this bug is not a duplicate of bug #1226962

Tomer (tbrisker) wrote :

I can confirm this is not a duplicate of #1226962, this only occurs in LibreOffice and not in other applications.
I can also confirm that removing the libreoffice-gtk package fixes this issue at the price of getting a less friendly UI.
Ubuntu 15.04, Libre Office 4.4.2.2

Hanan Sela (hans-013) wrote :

I can confirm that using Ubuntu 15.10 and Libreoffice 5.0.2.2 from Ubuntu repository the bug is still there. This bug is only within Libreoffice.

Tzafrir (tzaf) wrote :

This is a duplicate of https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1226962
See the solution in comment #280 and #283 in the other bug.

amba2 (shallomel) wrote :

This fixed my problem today (Ubuntu 14.04, LibreOffice 4.2.8.2, English and Hebrew keyboard):
sudo apt-get purge libreoffice-gtk and libreoffice-gnome
joojisan published this solution on en.libreofficeforum.org/node/1586

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