Polish localization translates "to copy" inconsistently

Bug #54177 reported by taw on 2006-07-26
2
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
language-pack-pl (Ubuntu)
Undecided
Unassigned

Bug Description

Binary package hint: language-pack-pl

This is an Ubuntu-wide (actually Linux-wide) bug,
not just in the language-pack-pl package, but that one is most affected.

Whole computing world translate "copy" command to "kopiuj".
For some reason that I do not understand, some people
on Linux translate it to "skopiuj". Often both translations
are used within a single package, what's highly unprofessional.
All Windows programs I know consistently use "kopiuj" form.

This isn't the only problem with Polish localization,
but we need to start somewhere or we'll have crappy localization forever.
Quality of localization is highly relevant to bug #1.

I'll try to prepare the relevant patches.

taw (tomasz-wegrzanowski) wrote :

Here is a patch that corrects the following packages:
language-pack-gnome-pl-6.06+20060705
language-pack-gnome-pl-base-6.06+20060529
language-pack-kde-pl-6.06+20060705
language-pack-kde-pl-base-6.06+20060529
language-pack-pl-6.06+20060705
language-pack-pl-base-6.06+20060529

They seem to be responsible for most of the Polish localization.

It doesn't do anything except for restoring terminological consistency,
so it can be safely applied.

I leave it to you to forward parts of it upstream.

Marcin Gałązka (hipnoizz) wrote :

See http://www.gnomepl.org/Słownik.

It looks that established Gnome translation is 'Skopiuj' not 'Kopiuj'. Rationale in linked dictionary.

taw (tomasz-wegrzanowski) wrote :

What they're doing is totally 100% wrong and we must fix that. (And that comment there is not a rationale of any kind, it simply says they want to use "Skopiuj" form).

Now maybe if we switched translation of *every single program* under Linux to "Skopiuj" (and break terminological compatibility with rest of the world for no good reason), then it would make some sense.

But switching terminology in some programs while keeping the standard terminology in others, or actually using both standard and alternative translations within a single program, is totally wrong, and I think everybody can see that.

So please either apply my patch, or some sort of reverse patch that unifies the translations in another direction (I think it would be worse than standard "Kopiuj", but still better than random mix of both), but don't keep the current mess.

Marcin Gałązka (hipnoizz) wrote :

They have gramma based explanation (perfect vs progressive form), you have... um... Windows related explanation. So really, you can't say that they are 100% wrong.

Personally I don't care which translation is used, and I agree that consistency would be nice. But since they are official Gnome PL translation team, you should talk with them first.

Dominik Zablotny (doza) wrote :

Proposed change is against our translation rules. Please discuss such things with Ubuntu Polish Translators team, https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-pl or upstream GNOME translators.

Polish open source translators have some common rules that sometimes differ from Windows. In this case, Windows is more inconsistant by mixing perfect and imperfect forms in simmilar context - Wycinaj, Kopiuj, Wklejaj? ;-)

Changed in language-pack-pl:
status: Unconfirmed → Rejected
taw (tomasz-wegrzanowski) wrote :

Please try to be serious. Following established terminology
is extremely serious matter.

"Kopiuj" for better or worse is the established translation of "Copy"
and everyone except for *some* GNOME translators uses it.
That includes DOS software, Windows software, Mac software
and Linux software, proprietary software and
*most Open Source software*, and most of the software
available for *Ubuntu*.
"Kopiuj" is also used by people when they mean this operation,
"kopiuj wklej" is a popular expression in everyday language
("copy&paste"), and nobody uses "skopiuj wklej" (you can easily
verify it by a Google check 44000 : 435).

"Skopiuj" is an attempt of GNOME translators to "fix" Polish
language, because they felt like doing so. Such actions are wrong
and show extreme arrogance towards users who expect standard
terminology instead of every translator selecting their own
according to their whims.

And again - this is pretty much GNOME only - and not even all GNOME -
most of software on Ubuntu, including KDE, uses the standard "Kopiuj".

If there's anything more damaging to localization than breaking
established terminology for no good reason it's inconsistently
breaking established terminology for no good reason.

And by the way, the grammar argument is completely totally 100% false.
Similar words use imperfect imperative. If GNOME translators seriously
believe it, they simply fell victim of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrection (trying to "correct"
the language based on faulty application of prescriptive grammar)

Quick grep:

language-pack-gnome-pl-6.06+20060705/data/pl/LC_MESSAGES/evolution-2.6.po:msgstr "Kon_wertuj na zadanie"
language-pack-gnome-pl-6.06+20060705/data/pl/LC_MESSAGES/evolution-2.6.po:msgstr "Kontynuuj"
language-pack-gnome-pl-base-6.06+20060529/data/pl/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-netstatus.po:msgstr "_Konfiguruj"
language-pack-kde-pl-base-6.06+20060529/data/pl/LC_MESSAGES/kalarm.po:msgstr "Kolejkuj alarm na określoną datę i czas."
language-pack-kde-pl-base-6.06+20060529/data/pl/LC_MESSAGES/libkdepim.po:msgstr "Koloruj nagłówek"
language-pack-kde-pl-base-6.06+20060529/data/pl/LC_MESSAGES/kspread.po:msgstr "&Konsoliduj..."
language-pack-kde-pl-base-6.06+20060529/data/pl/LC_MESSAGES/kmail.po:msgstr "&Kompresuj folder"
language-pack-kde-pl-base-6.06+20060529/data/pl/LC_MESSAGES/kaudiocreator.po:msgstr "&Koduj plik"

And many more.

There's absolutely no reason to use such weird terminology.
Either GNOME translators fix it (they seriously should do it),
or Ubuntu should, the same way distribution fix every other
faulty package.

Dominik Zablotny (doza) wrote :

1. "open source translators" - i'm sorry, I was wrong here, it's GNOME translators' rule

2. We correct upstream mistakes, and we have established way to send them back, but we're not gonna change upstream rules and I'm afraid we are even unable to do so in the long term.

3. Most of simmilar menu actions are translated to perfect form, including "Undo", "Redo", "Cut", "Paste", "Delete", "Select all", "Search/Find", "Replace", "Refresh" etc. "Continue" was not too good example btw ;)

4. I strongly insist this is wrong place to discuss translation rules, please talk to GNOME translators rather than making patches for one specific release

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