IANA tzdata file format cannot represent different country code for a given timezone in different time periods [ i.e. Europe/Simferopol country code changes ]; iso 3166-2 has no RU subdivisions for Crimea

[Norbert]

Europe/Simferopol, Crimea is RUSSIA

ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 21.04
Package: tzdata 2021a-1ubuntu1
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 5.11.0-11.12-generic 5.11.0
Uname: Linux 5.11.0-11-generic x86_64
ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu60
Architecture: amd64
CurrentDesktop: MATE
Date: Tue Mar 23 21:44:56 2021
InstallationDate: Installed on 2021-03-21 (1 days ago)
InstallationMedia: Ubuntu-MATE 21.04 "Hirsute Hippo" - Alpha amd64 (20210321)
PackageArchitecture: all
SourcePackage: tzdata
UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install)

[Launchpad Janitor (janitor)]

Status changed to 'Confirmed' because the bug affects multiple users.

[Dimitri John Ledkov (xnox)]

The upstream IANA tzdata file format is very restrictive and cannot change and reflect country codes correctly, across correct historical dates.

From "europe" file:
Zone Europe/Simferopol 2:16:24 - LMT 1880
    2:16 - SMT 1924 May 2 # Simferopol Mean T
    2:00 - EET 1930 Jun 21
    3:00 - MSK 1941 Nov
    1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1944 Apr 13
    3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1990
    3:00 - MSK 1990 Jul 1 2:00
    2:00 - EET 1992
# Central Crimea used Moscow time 1994/1997.
#
# From Paul Eggert (2006-03-22):
# The _Economist_ (1994-05-28, p 45) reports that central Crimea switched
# from Kiev to Moscow time sometime after the January 1994 elections.
# Shanks (1999) says "date of change uncertain", but implies that it happened
# sometime between the 1994 DST switches. Shanks & Pottenger simply say
# 1994-09-25 03:00, but that can't be right. For now, guess it
# changed in May.
    2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1994 May
# From IATA SSIM (1994/1997), which also says that Kerch is still like Kiev.
    3:00 E-Eur MSK/MSD 1996 Mar 31 0:00s
    3:00 1:00 MSD 1996 Oct 27 3:00s
# IATA SSIM (1997-09) says Crimea switched to EET/EEST.
# Assume it happened in March by not changing the clocks.
    3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1997
    3:00 - MSK 1997 Mar lastSun 1:00u
# From Alexander Krivenyshev (2014-03-17):
# time change at 2:00 (2am) on March 30, 2014
# https://vz.ru/news/2014/3/17/677464.html
# From Paul Eggert (2014-03-30):
# Simferopol and Sevastopol reportedly changed their central town clocks
# late the previous day, but this appears to have been ceremonial
# and the discrepancies are small enough to not worry about.
    2:00 EU EE%sT 2014 Mar 30 2:00
    4:00 - MSK 2014 Oct 26 2:00s
    3:00 - MSK

The above defines which timezone was used when in Crimea.

But the mapping from Europe/Simferopol => country code [UA,RU] as appropriate for a given time period is not possible in the zone.tab file. Hence it currently stayed with:
./zone.tab:UA +4457+03406 Europe/Simferopol Crimea

There is a newer format in zone1970.tab file which says:
./zone1970.tab:RU,UA +4457+03406 Europe/Simferopol Crimea

But that is not helpful, as it lists two countries. And it still doesn't map country codes to the correct time periods.

It almost feels like we either need a new country code for Crimea to explain that depending which year one is in, it should be one or the other country code. Or we need to extend the zore1970.tab format similar to the file format of europe format such that country codes can be specified for every relevant time period.

So to get where you want to be, IANA needs to create a new tzdata format and for everyone to switch to it. I guess that would need to be requested via Discussions mailing list at IANA - see https://www.iana.org/time-zones

There is nothing in particular that Ubuntu can do to fix tzdata. As disagreement across other users of tzdata across the network can introduce interoperability bugs.

My only recommendation is to use Europe/Kiev or Europe/Moscow zones, which have the correct country code mappings for the most recent decades.

[Dimitri John Ledkov (xnox)]

Is there anything in particular about all the other packages that you marked them as affected? I suspect that they all use Ubuntu's provided tzdata as the source of information, and hence they will all be reflecting simply whatever tzdata tells them. Hence any changes will be automatically reflected in them, if and when, tzdata is improved.

Would it be ok to close all the other tasks, whilst keeping tzdata one open?

[Dimitri John Ledkov (xnox)]

Setting the status of the bug report to Opinion, as it doesn't fit the scope of Ubuntu project. It has to be fixed by IANA in upstream releases of tzdata. Once they come up with a better solution in the file format, the bug can change to confirmed to be integrated in Ubuntu.

[Alexander (mct-r1)]

96 percent of the population of Crimea voted for joining the Russian Federation in the conditions of the overthrow of the legitimate president of the country, at that time Crimea had the status of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. Today it is the Republic of Crimea, which no longer has the status of autonomy, because it is part of the Russian Federation. When selecting the location of the city of Simferopol, Ubuntu adds the UA domain.

[Alexander (mct-r1)]

That is, she says... "fuck you all, the United States has a different opinion on this". And it does this not only for the residents of the Crimean Peninsula, but also for the residents of the Russian Federation as a whole. You are wrong to think that this does not affect Ubuntu. It affects the whole world.

[Dimitri John Ledkov (xnox)]

In the iso-codes package there is a related issue, ISO 3166-2:RU contains no codes for the Russian-administered Republic of Crimea and Federal City of Sevastopol. Instead the UA codes are still specified, i.e. UA-43 for Crimea.

[Dimitri John Ledkov (xnox)]

To be fair, Sevastopol has always had a special status of a federal city - across all times. Closes analogy being Vatican City. It was federal city separate from Crimea during whichever government defacto government ruling be it USSR, Ukranian SSR, Ukrain or Russian Federation.

[Alexander (mct-r1)]

First there was the Crimea (Cimmeria, pre-Scythian period), then Rome, and already then the Vatican. At that time, Rome was not yet in the project.

[Alexander (mct-r1)]

As you can see, Simferopol, Sevastopol, Kerch, Feodosia... these are the Greek names of cities. For which the Russians fought together with the Greeks.

[Alexander (mct-r1)]

And now the American does not agree with this, and considers it a controversial issue. He does not even know what kind or tribe he is, or how he came to be on the American continent in the first place... but he does not agree with the age-old history of the peoples of the world.

[Dimitri John Ledkov (xnox)]

"America" does not maintain neither tzdata nor ISO 3166-2 database, both of which are delegated to international community of Internet Standards via RFC & to a committee headquartered in Genera with delegates from all around the world. All of which has lots of experience with classifying and updating territorial disputes, as and when things change.

I would like to remind everyone to be respectful, and to not make any generalizations of any individuals based on apparent or perceived country of origin. Note that participation on the Launchpad bug tracker for Ubuntu is subject to the Ubuntu Code of Conduct https://ubuntu.com/community/code-of-conduct

[Alexander (mct-r1)]

Oh, that's so sweet... when I read this endless memoir about codes of conduct and the importance of democratic institutions, written in English. I think only of the Overton window system, and I only remember that after a very hard war, seeing that the British Empire would fall, Truman introduced the Soviet deterrent system, which is projected to this day, and I see it not as a deterrent system, but as a knife in the back... this is the whole importance of passing through a thousand words and gigabytes of code to justify simple things. While they will fool you with their rules, at the same time they will create lawlessness themselves, for this they write their rules. I remember how the USSR was destroyed, how the Crimea was removed from the USSR, I remember these hordes of Uzbeks with signs on their necks "our Crimea". I see what is happening now around the Crimean peninsula, these claims, attacks and sanctions... in order to change the opinion of the Crimeans. And believe me, I still behave more than correctly when I write all this. After all, if you were left in your infancy just in the woods, you would be the default animal. You wouldn't be able to read or write until you were taught to do so. In another case, if you are placed in an information vacuum and raised in total Russophobia (which includes racism, fascism and nazism), you will already turn into a completely different animal. But the point will be the same.

[Alexander (mct-r1)]

Ubuntu often talks about philosophy, but philosophy is primarily about finding the truth.
Don't talk about philosophy, it doesn't suit you.

[Alexander (mct-r1)]

And Dmitry, I will tell you personally that all international projects that are built by English-speaking and Latin-speaking companies often end up with stickers (made in the USA) and the accounts of international developers get banned or turn into hired workers. So don't be under the illusion that your name will be next to it.