cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c

Bug #518056 reported by Leandro
312
This bug affects 59 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
xkeyboard-config
Won't Fix
Medium
xlibs
Fix Released
Medium
ibus (Ubuntu)
Fix Released
Medium
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
language-selector (Ubuntu)
Fix Released
Medium
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
libx11 (Ubuntu)
Fix Released
Medium
Gunnar Hjalmarsson

Bug Description

When typing in a US-international keyboard with dead-keys (or UK-international),
typing 'c results in an accented c instead of a cedilla.

There is a workaround, which is editing the

/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodule-files.d/libgtk2.0-0.immodules

file and changing the line

"cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale" "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa"

to

"cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale" "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa:en"

(add the 'en' at the end).

However, every time some update on this file is applied, one looses the change,
and we get back to the accented c. That means having to modify the file again,
logout and login.

For me this is no problem. But for my brother, mom, dad, etc, it is always something
that at least makes me less proud of having convinced them to use Ubuntu, because
they don't know what to do each time this happens.

I think we really need a configurable keyboard layout, or at least (and that would
be very easy), the inclusion of alternate layouts on install that for the dead-key
options (as US-deadkey and UK-deakey), alternate layouts as US-deadkey-cedilla.

This change is relevant for at least Portuguese and French.

Related branches

affects: ubuntu → gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu)
Revision history for this message
Loïc Minier (lool) wrote :

Just use , + c rather than ' + c?

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

,+c produces ",c" , I don't know what you mean.

Anyway, there is no such thing as an accented "c" in portuguese or french.
So I don't see why some potential tenths of millions of users should simply
adapt themselves to a different keyboard layout for something that apparently
involves only adding to the already more than 40 options two new layouts with
a cedilla there.

As I said, this is necessary for two layouts:

UK-International with Dead Keys
and
USA-International with Dead-Keys

If we had alternatives to these with cedilla the problem would be solved.

There are many threads of desperate Brazilian users trying to fix their layouts
in the web.

I was willing to work on this myself, but I don't have the expertise to do so, and
I wasn't able to recognise in which package the layouts are defined.

Revision history for this message
Loïc Minier (lool) wrote :

Ah I thought you were using a compose-key sequence, but it's just a regular sequence.

I think changing the default input method for Gtk+ when using an en layout would be quite intrusive though. Perhaps we can fix the en default input method to be more useful to type French ç instead.

Revision history for this message
Loïc Minier (lool) wrote :

BTW I think you can override the immodules definition with /etc/gtk-2.0/gtk.immodules.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Yes, one can change that by changing the immodules definition (this was described in
the first post).

For us Brazilians it would be nice if the default 'c sequence resulted in a cedilla, for
french people certainly it would be nice as well.

Languages from the east europe, however, have accented "c"s. That is why I was
suggesting that a variant of these layouts should be included instead of changing
the current ones to a different default.

Alternatively, one could have a layout customization option for this, as one can,
for instance, define an eurosign for some keys. But I think this would be harder
to implement, isn't it?

Again, for us Brazilians and for French people, the change in the default output
character for 'c in the UK-Intl-with_dead_keys and US-Intl-with_dead_keys layouts
would be enough.

Is this feasible?

Thanks.

Leo (leorolla)
Changed in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu):
status: New → Confirmed
Revision history for this message
Razer (razer-anthom) wrote :

I followed these instructions and Thunderbird still gives me ć when pressing ' + c.

Revision history for this message
Sebastien Bacher (seb128) wrote :

Thank you for your bug report. The issue is an upstream one and it would be nice if somebody having it could send the bug the to the people writting the software (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/GNOME)

Changed in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu):
importance: Undecided → Low
Revision history for this message
Vítor E. Silva Souza (vitorsouza) wrote :

I did a fresh install of Ubuntu 11.10 and I noticed that for GTK applications the combination ' + c now produces ç and not an accented c anymore. Does that happen only with me?

Non-GTK applications, however (e.g. Skype), still output the accented C. The solution is to edit the file /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose and replace the accented c/C characters with ç/Ç.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Thanks Vitor. I have a fresh instalation of Xubuntu 11.10 and it does not work that way. I've installed the system in english, with an USA-International (with dead keys) keyboard layout and get the accented c by default. Do you installed your system in Portuguese?

Your locale modification solves my problem with libreoffice. For all other applications I use I had it solved by modifying the

/usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules.cache

by adding "en" to the cedilla line.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

I'm experimenting with Mint 12 and Ubuntu 12.04, and these workarounds do not seem to be working as they should, some applications still print the accented C instead of the cedilla.

This is very frustrating. As stupid as this may appear, not being able to touch type with a standard keyboard configuration because a keystroke combination does not provide the correct character is enough for many of my linux intalations for other people become useless.

I cand continue trying with workaround and spend some time trying to solve this on my machine. But asking non-techies to do the same is out of question.

Revision history for this message
theblackkat (theblackkat) wrote :

Leandro, I found (after loooong hours of fiddling) that installing all packages starting with "ibus" and rebooting solves the problem. Don't know why, it just does. I tested this on both Kubuntu and Lubuntu 12.04.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Thanks theblackjack. I'm not completely sure how is the current status of this issue. In new instalations of Xubuntu 12.04 is seems that the default behaviour is, finally, print ç for 'c for the US-international-with dead keys layout. I have the impresion however that the problem persists in some applications, as libreoffice. But I would need to test this on a clean instalation, and currently I cannot do so. Anyway, it seems that someone has heard our claims.

Revision history for this message
theblackkat (theblackkat) wrote :

Actually, I have some bad news... It seems that it worked for non-KDE applications only. On Lubuntu, however, it is working right, so I guess on standard Ubuntu or Xubuntu it should also work. Not sure what to do about Libreoffice, though...

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Yes, that seems to be right. On Xubuntu, inside QtiPlot (which, of course, is based on Qt - I think KDE is based on Qt), the cedilla does NOT work either.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

I've just installed a fresh Linux Mint 13 and nothing changed (still getting the accented c).
So, no luck there yet.

I confirm that installing the "ibus" package solves the problem for non-QT applications. For libreoffice
is seems to work. I didn't install all packages starting with "ibus", only the "ibus" package and its
dependencies - on Mint 13 Cinnamon.

Revision history for this message
Sergio Daniel Carvalho Canuto (sergiocomputacao-deactivatedaccount) wrote :

I've installed ubuntu 13.04 and the problem persists on kile and texmaker. Pretty annoying!!

Revision history for this message
cousteau (cousteaulecommandant) wrote :

Ok, I spent quite long to figure out why cedilla was the new acute.

Since my keyboard already has a Ç key (which I use very rarely) I'm quite annoyed with the decision of making dead_acute + c become a c with cedilla instead of a c with acute (which doesn't have any other input method that doesn't involve writing Unicode codes). Wouldn't it be possible to use a different combination for ç, such as dead_grave + c (or the already existing AltGr-,)? Or use ~/.XCompose or instead of overriding it with a custom configuration. If none of those seem feasible, maybe giving cacute a different combination, such as dead_grave + c, could do (although in my opinion it makes far more sense that the dead ACUTE key, followed by the C key, prints a C with ACUTE rather than a C with CEDILLA).

Among all possible solutions, I think that the best one would be to just make the default input method use X11's Compose, which already solved this problem in a localized way by having a special key composition file for pt_BR locale which maps <dead_acute> <c> to ccedilla while keeping other locales with the default cacute setting, in addition to allowing the user to have a custom ~/.XCompose file.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Dear Cousteau,

The issue would be easily solved by the introduction of a keyboard layout with the 'c = ç option (which, at this point, seems to be default in some cases). I am far from understanding how are the technical issues behind this. The usability issue is, on the hand, greater than simply an apparent "ilogical" choice of using 'c as ç instead of the actual accented c. The thing is that Cs with accents are used by a small portion of the worlds population, which use also many other accentuations (as inverted grave ^ accents over some letters) and different alfabets, which require highly specific (and available!) keyboard layouts. On the other side, portuguese writers use rather frequently US-International keyboards, as the ONLY issue with dead keys is that of cedilla, and in portuguese accented Cs do not exist. French writers could also claim the same, but as they use in general a totally different keyboard (azerty), they have their own keyboard layout and are satisfied with its default options.

Therefore, this is, indeed, an specific issue affecting only portuguese writers (5% of the worlds population, I guess), and, if the default is changed, I cannot imagine that it will bother anyone, except, maybe, very few people which want to write an accented Cs for some specific reason in some very particular context using a US-International keyboard with dead-keys, and in those cases I think it is not a big deal to search for that character in the special character table.

Anyway, I am totally in favor of having more than one keyboard layout option with one and the other options, it is really an important issue for the popularization of Linux in Brazil. I don't know where to put my face whenever I install linux to someone and I cannot make them write a cedilla in an standard, easy and system-wide manner.

Leandro.

Revision history for this message
Alexandre Heitor Schmidt (alexandre-schmidt) wrote :

This solution worked for me, although it sounds like "hammering"...

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/518056/comments/8

Thanks anyway!

Revision history for this message
Mario Frasca (mfrasca) wrote :

I'm sorry, but what are we talking about? that <multi_key> <apostrophe> <c> used to produce the character ć (c with acute)?
to my understanding, this is how it should be, and if you need ç, you follow <multi_key> <comma> <c>, as correctly remarked in comment:1 (not so sure why it was ignored).

somehow the "solution" to the here reported "bug" seems to be the current situation, as <multi_key> <apostrophe> <c> appears associated with ç (c with cedilla), while ç can still also be produced with <multi_key> <comma> <c>.

bug #919899 describes the current problem, that is, we can't easily produce "c with acute" in any GTK program now.

currently there seems to be no other way to type ć than Ctrl-Shift-<u> <1> <0> <7> <space>.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

No, the problem is NOT having a keyboard layout for US keyboards in which typing 'c gives ç.

Using multi-key for anything is not an option if you are a touch typist and the letter you want
to type appears very frequently in your language.

The multi-key options are irrelevant for this problem.

Of course there should some way to type c with acute, but that option should not be 'c for
US keyboards, as there are no accented Cs in any language that uses US keyboards. For those
languages, which also have many other different characters, the use of specific keyboard
layouts cannot be avoided.

For characters as the 'c with acute', which are so infrequently used in English as in Portuguese,
one could have an easily available character table. I don't think that any other language uses
US keyboards with dead keys except Portuguese and Spanish. In Spanish there is no problem,
because the only non-English character is the ñ, and there is no ambiguity there. For Portuguese,
the only non-English character is the ç, for which the good option is the 'c, as it is a two-strike
combination.

Revision history for this message
Mario Frasca (mfrasca) wrote :

hi Leandro,

you write
> as there are no accented Cs in any language that uses US keyboards...
and
> I don't think that any other language uses US keyboards with dead keys...

please don't forget that there are quite a few languages around here in Europe, some of them use ć, and when we write to someone from an other country we often want to write their names correctly! :)
I am not so sure, but I assume that e.g. Polish or Serbian programmers also use the US keyboard.
to most of them, ç is probably of little use while ć is a very common symbol.

let me understand why you want to alter the US layout when you need Portuguese?
using the Portuguese layout, isn't it an option for you?

bug #919899 is about the <compose> key, you are talking about dead keys. Is it possible that some patches aiming at satisfying #518056 broke things for #919899?

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Hello Mario,

Serbian, for instance, has also the č, ć, ž, đ, š characters. None of them can be typed in a US keyboard.
That is because Serbians have their own keyboard layout (and that is available within the options
when one installs a linux distribution). It makes no sense to keep the accented c letter if its only use
will be typing the names of someone in a language that may have many other characters, so that
you would be able to type only a part of the name correctly :-).

This is the same for every other language in Europe having the accented c letter in its alfabet.

If someone in Serbia or Poland use the US keyboard layout, which they may use, they certainly have
to do a lot adaptations to be able to write in their languages. Probably if they use that keyboard
is for programming only.

The situation is different for Portuguese, in which the ONLY adaptation required is the 'c = ç, and
the keyboard can be used (and IS used) like that. There is a Brazilian Portuguese layout, and
the corresponding physical keyboard, and those work just fine. The issue is that in Brazil, at least,
many, many people buy they computers abroad or imported ones, which come with the
US-layout. The historical and practical adaptation is the 'c=ç, and that is what is used by default
for US-keyboards in portuguese in other operating systems.

Not having a keyboard layout to chose from in which the 'c corresponds to ç has been a great
headache for people trying to use linux and trying to convince other to use it, you may imagine
how frustrating is to present someone a alterantive OS in which they can't type a frequently
used character the practical and usual way.

I have no idea if those bugs are related. I know that in some recent instalations there are signs
(signs, because some people still report problems in some applications) that the 'c=ç option
is been adopted. I insisted in many blogs and here that the ideal solution is simply to include
yet another keyboard layout called "US-International with dead-keys (cedilla)", but of course
what I want is not traduced easily in other people implementing that, and sometimes I have
received feedbacks on more technically skilled people saying that any solution to this problems
involves complications far beyound my understanding.

Revision history for this message
Mario Frasca (mfrasca) wrote :

so you are pushing development towards <dead_apostrophe> + <c> producing <ç>.
I think it's wrong, inconsistent with the rest, but fine, we agree that we disagree on this.

problem is that <multi_key> <apostrophe> <c> now also produces <ç> and that there is no composition any more giving <ć>.

please note: <multi_key> is what one would use when one needs the most generic tool.

it would be nice if we knew what was changed in order to achieve the current behaviour, because some of us would like to roll it back.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Mario, I do agree that ",c" seems pretier to represent ç than 'c. However, ",c" cannot be typed
as a two stroke combination in a dead-key combination, obviously because the comma cannot
be a dead key.

The only thing I would like to be pushing (I don't think my pushings are having any effect, as this
problem persists since I went on into linux for the first time) is to have the OPTION to chose
a keyboard layout in which 'c=ç, and what I am indeed argumenting is that for the absolute mayority
of people who would bother to use a US keyboard with dead keys, this is the option that is
useful.

It is very, very, frustating to hear arguments oposing to the fixing of this "bug", because its "fixing" does
not require breaking anything else if a new keyboard layout becomes available with this option,
within the set of tenths of layouts from which one already can chose when installing a linux box.

I don't think, as you, that any other option is "wrong", as I think people should use their computer
as they find confortable. In windows (which I do not use) I once could create a new keyboard
layout with a very easy to use application, and even distributed it. I needed that to create the
adequate behavior for portuguese in a UK keyboard. I think that is the way to go, and not to disminish
the needs of other users for, I don't know, ahestetical reasons. This ç problem is not my problem
only, type "cedilha no ubuntu", you will find more than 7 thousand posts of people asking how
to solve this or giving partial solutions for every new ubuntu version. (cedilha linux gives
you almost 20 thousand posts - yes, I think all from Brazil).

The problem with multi-keys I am not aware about, and if that is a problem should be reported
as a different problem, anyway. And I don't agree that the multi-key solution is optimal, because
nobody remembers the combination of strokes of characters that are not used frequently. I'm
not against the multikeys, but I think there should be a character table accessible from anywhere
in the system from which one could copy and paste any character to any application.

Revision history for this message
Joakim Ekberg (j-a-o) wrote :

I certainly see the point of having dead_acute + c making a ç, even though it's totally unintuitive, if for some odd reason it should prove impossible to assign dead_grave + c or AltGr-, to it (none of which would interfere with any existing characters).

But, as pointed out in #919899, then compose + apostrophe + c really must output a c with an acute accent. The one who wants to type a ç using ComposeKey already has compose + comma + c. (By the way, even though your mileage varies, I find the ComposeKey sequences quite intuitive and easy to remember.)

Additionally, if the problem is only with US International, it might be possible to have dead_acute + c creating a ç only on US International, but a c with an acute accent on other (European) layouts.

Revision history for this message
strangedata (rcteigao) wrote :

So... is there anyone looking into solving this issue? The workaround is no longer giving results on Qt applications (at least not in TeXmaker).

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

For QT applications you need to edit this file:

/usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose

and change every accented Cs by their corresponding Ç and ç (two times), in these lines:

<dead_acute> <C> : "Ç" U0106 # LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C WITH ACUTE
<dead_acute> <c> : "ç" U0107 # LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH ACUTE

Revision history for this message
Sergio Daniel Carvalho Canuto (sergiocomputacao-deactivatedaccount) wrote :

I fixed with
sudo apt-get remove ibus-qt4

Revision history for this message
cipricus (cipricus) wrote :

in Xfce Quantal (Linux Mint 14) installing `ibus` and its dependencies solved the problem.

Revision history for this message
winnyec (narfff) wrote :

@Leandro:
You can't be possibly serious about this. I write in many languages, and need to be able to enter <accented c> (don't know currently how to do this, other than copy-pasting it from another text), and I need to write it often. And there are millions who do need <accented c>. I don't care whatsoever if there is an additional tweaked version of UK/US keyboard layout (which can be even the default) where you have a generic_dead_character at the place of dead_accute, which together with C produces ç (I can't believe I have just typed <accent> and <c>), but overriding <accent>+<c> = cedillad c for all possible input layouts is simply unacceptable. Accent+C -- as it says -- is accented C. How can this be even argued?! This is ridiculous and very frustrating.

Or if it is not done this way, how come on compose-type accents (obviously I am using compose-type dead accents, since I need many accents), where there is seperate dead cedilla, accuted C still comes out as ç??

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Dear Winnyec, have even read the bug report? It is ridiculous and frustrating to have to answer to someone that apparently didn´t read what is posted.

Revision history for this message
Josip Krapac (josip-krapac) wrote :

Hi guys!

I'm Croatian and I've used '+c to produce letter ć, used in Croatian. It's used also in Bosnian and Serbian. Serbs also have that letter when they are using Latin letters. Although we do have Croatian and Serb keyboard layouts, for programming I prefer to use US international keyboard with dead keys.

Leandro, this is not true: "If someone in Serbia or Poland use the US keyboard layout, which they may use, they certainly have to do a lot adaptations to be able to write in their languages. Probably if they use that keyboard is for programming only". I've been using international keyboard in previous versions of Ubuntu just fine, without any adaptations. Also, that was convenient when I wrote in French and Croatian, since I didn't have to switch keyboards.

The new arrangement doesn't make logical sense since:
a) it would make more sense to have [AltGr ,]+c to produce ç, since the cedille is below letter, not above
b) there are two ways to get ç (1: AltGr + , 2: ´ + c), while, as far as I can see, there is no way to get ć.

Be aware that ć is different from ċ and ƈ, both of which can be obtained. I know that there's also letter with similar accent is Polish, over letter s (ś), and that is also impossible to get now with the new layout, as far as I see.

Revision history for this message
LKRaider (paul-eipper) wrote :

The comments on this bug are so ridiculous - it would be funny if it wasn't sad.

1. The request is for a new layout.
2. It does not affect any existing layout.
3. It is to help Portuguese-Brazilian users.
4. It does not affect anyone else.
5. Opinions on whether ' + c should or should not produce ç are irrelevant.

What is needed is someone with the knowledge and/or the will to create a new layout.

If you cannot help with this, please don't get in the way.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

How do you used to write Nataša, for example, with the US-keyboard that types the accented-c key? Or the "Đ" letter?

Not that this discussion is of any relevance anymore, since all kinds of suggestions don't seem to reach anyone, but what I suggested at first was to have a keyboard layout in which 'c = ç, as is useful for about 300 million people in the world (Portuguese+French). If that is the default or the default is the accented "c", which is used as a partial incomplete layout by a much smaller fraction of the world's population, is a secondary problem. But I insist we, brazilians, should have the choice of typing 'c for ç, as that is the good choice for touch typists (Alg-Gr combinations are a horrible options, and Mac keyboards don't even have that Alg-Gr key).

Anyway, it is pretty impressive how the suggestion of having an additional keyboard layout that fulfills the needs of so many people (just check on google how many people have posted this problem) can result in so enormous negative feedback.

Ps. In Windows there is a program called "keyboard layout creator", or something like that, with which one can create any keyboard layout one wants. Linux is years light behind on that.

Revision history for this message
Josip Krapac (josip-krapac) wrote :

Just to answer your question and then I'm out of here: I used to write š with [AltGr+Shift+.]+s and Ð with AltGr+Shift+D.

I agree that having Linux version of user-friendly editor of keyboard layout would solve a lot of problems.

Revision history for this message
Rael Gugelmin Cunha (rael-gc) wrote :

My problem is: while using the US layout, the behavior is the same on Windows.
To me, ok, but when, as you guys, I put other non-tech people using Ubuntu, it's a problem.

On Windows, when I use US international, and I type '+c, I get ç. When I type '+I, I get "I'". So, I can type portuguese and US stuff (for programming) with no problem.

But, as we're discussing here, the behavior is different on Ubuntu. Not sure if it's a bug, appears to be the Ubuntu way.

Anyway, I changed this (I'm using 12.04 LTS).

I did a bunch of stuff, not sure if all this is really required. Please, correct me I'm wrong or doing unnecessary steps.

I used this .XCompose file in my home folder: http://www.raelcunha.com/.XCompose
Then I included in my .bash_profile and .profile:

export GTK_IM_MODULE=xim
export QT_IM_MODULE=xim

Then I asked to Ubuntu use xim:

im-switch -s default-xim

Then I installed ibus-table-compose:

sudo apt-get install ibus-table-compose

Then logout and login.

Can someone from Ubuntu team tell me if all this is required?

Revision history for this message
Leonardo Lazarte (llazarte) wrote :

The standard for obtaining c-cedilla was working ok on my installation until updating to 13.10. Unfortunately, it is now broken and I could not find a way to write this letter, although I tried all the suggestions in this thread.

affects: gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) → ubuntu
Revision history for this message
Helio José Valente Junior (helio-valente) wrote :

Hi Leonardo,

This solution worked for me:

1) Editing the files:

for 64 bits:
sudo gedit /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules.cache
sudo gedit /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodules.cache

for 32 bits:
sudo gedit /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodules.cache

changing the line

"cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale" "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa"

to

"cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale" "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa:en"

2) replacing "ć" to "ç" and "Ć" to "Ç" on /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose

sudo cp /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose.bak
sed 's/ć/ç/g' < /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose | sed 's/Ć/Ç/g' > Compose
sudo mv Compose /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose

3) add two lines on /etc/environment

GTK_IM_MODULE=cedilla
QT_IM_MODULE=cedilla

4)restart your computer

Revision history for this message
Raphael Menezes (raphaelrms) wrote :

Guys, I'm sorry, but I think this discussion has taken too much time and has been giving a lot of troubles to spanish, french, brazilians and people from other countries that need this letter.
To type the cedilla on Linux and Windows with the US-International keyboard layout has been the combination ", + c" since forever (just check it). But now, after an update, we are making people to do tricky things in order to get the letter that they need. It's frustrating to hear from regular desktop users that the cedilla has gone and are afraid to type those commands to fix it.

What are we waiting for to create a new keyboard layout (like US International with cedilla) or go back to the layout that we had before?

Revision history for this message
Raphael Menezes (raphaelrms) wrote :

I meant: ' + c

Revision history for this message
Jose Vitor Lopes e Silva (josevitor) wrote :

I tested only step three and it worked well.

BTW, is not necessary to put the user on a terminal. Simply enter data in the file by Gedit.

I Recommend the shortcut Alt + F2; gksu gedit, thus allowing the user paste the lines below.

"Add two lines on /etc/environment

GTK_IM_MODULE=cedilla
QT_IM_MODULE=cedilla"

It seems more complicated and effectively is. All this to prevent the user from using the "scary" terminal.

I cooked a tutorial (in Portuguese only, sorry) that demonstrates the steps with only 4 screenshots http://josevitor.blog.br/cedilha-no-ubuntu-13-10-solucao-parcial/

Revision history for this message
Felipe G. M. Maia (felipegmaia) wrote :

As stated by Jose Vitor, using just the third step described by Helio Jose, is enough to have the cedilla ( 'ç' ) working, although the meaning of Helio's steps 1 and 2 is unknown for me at this time.

The limitation of this change is that other consonants such as " S " are still being accentuated as " Ś ", instead of having an apostrophe before the letter, as on " 'S ", used to express contractions.

Defenetly, Cannonical should fix this issue, which always occured, and offer a standard Portuguese (Brazil) layout for US keyboards, and other needed languages as well, in order to avoid delegating to the user these changes in scripts manually each time we reinstall Ubuntu.

Revision history for this message
Rael Gugelmin Cunha (rael-gc) wrote :

Felipe G. Maia, I'm brazilian too, with the same problem. But I found a nice solution to make a US international keyboard work as on Windows.

Download this file: http://www.raelcunha.com/.XCompose
Place it at your home.

Then add this to .bashrc, .profile and .bash_profile:

export GTK_IM_MODULE=xim
export QT_IM_MODULE=xim

Logout and login again.

Revision history for this message
Rael Gugelmin Cunha (rael-gc) wrote :

Ops, forgot one additional step before restart. You have to run:

sudo im-config -s default-xim

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote :

Currently this bug affects me and 27 other people.
Acctually this bug does not affect more people because linux/ubuntu is not that popular in Brazil as Windows.
If were then we would be reading something like... this bugs affects 300.000.000 people.

The default behavior for typing ccedilla in Brazil was always the combination of '+c since ms-dos times.

This type of bug is exactly the one that prevents linux popularization among non-skilled users.

The bug should be expanded to include the complete behavior presented by mainstream products for the following combination of:
keyboard = US International (and variants),
language = Portuguese (Brazil), Portuguese(Portugal).

Which means:

'+c = ccedilla
'+C = Ccedilla
'+consonant = 'consonant (e.g., Raphael Calvo's keyboard layout is not working properly.)
'+a = á
'+e = é
'+i = í
'+o = ó
'+u = ú
'+A = Á
'+E = É
'+I = Í
'+O = Ó
'+U = Ú

Revision history for this message
Felipe Figueiredo (philsf) wrote :

Leandro (bug reporter), it has been sugested that bug #228077 be linked with this one. It describes the same problem and same workarounds, but is older (2008) and has been linked to the upstream bug report and bugs in other services. It also has much less noise in the comments.

Would you mind if this report was set as a duplicate to the other one? We could then change the description to reflect the proposal of adding a new keyboard layout instead of changing the default layout, if that's still the case.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

I wouldn't mind if this bug is marked as duplicate. However, at this point I wouldn't say that this is exactly a bug. I have the impression that there is a standard behavior in all new installations that " Right-ALT + comma " gives the ç letter, so that it is possible to create the ç letter in the en_US with dead keys layout.

I still think that it is very important that a new keyboard layout differing from the current one only in that should be created. Maybe this should not be a bug anymore, but a request of a feature (the new keyboard layout).

In any case, it does not seem that these reports are getting to the right persons, who could make that decision.

Revision history for this message
Thomas Hansen (thomasphansen) wrote :

My two pence: I live in Denmark, and also suffer with this cedilla problem. Just fixed it using the instructions written above (thanks guys!), and I do agree with Leandro: this could be fixable with a graphical interface option or with an alternative keyboard layout. The second option seems to be pretty reasonable for me, since it would fix the issue while allowing other users to stick to the standard behavior. And BTW, this '+c issue is somewhat erratic: I have two machines running Linux Mint 16, both with almost the same configuration, and when using these keys, one returns me the C-cedilla, and the other the C-acute!

Revision history for this message
Felipe bluR (blur404-deactivatedaccount) wrote :

I followed Rael tips (#44 and #45) and that worked for me.
I did one thing different thought, I edited the .pam_environment file instead of .bashrc, .profile and .bash_profile files.

Revision history for this message
Felipe bluR (blur404-deactivatedaccount) wrote :

I had to rollback to the fix described in step 3 in the answer #39.
Google Chrome v36 wasn't working with xim. Everything else was working like a charm, including Skype.

I'm going to wait for either Chrome or this "bug" to get fixed.

Revision history for this message
Felipe Micaroni Lalli (micaroni) wrote :

Why this bug is set as "low" priority? This bug is really annoying.

Revision history for this message
Felipe Micaroni Lalli (micaroni) wrote :

The solution

"Add two lines on /etc/environment

GTK_IM_MODULE=cedilla
QT_IM_MODULE=cedilla"

is partial and don't solve many problems:

- now, when I want to use the symbol single quote (') I have to press space before to press another character. The expected behavior (used on MacOSX, Windows and previous versions of Ubuntu etc.) is to just put the char I pressed UNLESS the char is C, what should produce Ç. Now, when I press ' and after Q, for example, I don't have ' and not Q as well! I have to press BAR SPACE, what is absurd.
- if I combine ' and letters like Y, P, etc. I have this: Ý, Ṕ, instead 'Y, 'P (expected behavior).
- inside my Emacs I still have ć what is totally crazy.

Please, fix this bug asap. It is easy, just rollback the previous behavior.

Revision history for this message
Florencio Neves (florencioneves) wrote :

m17 now has a "latn1-pre" input method that produces ç with the combination 'c. See http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/m17n/m17n-db.git/commit/?id=cdabded6b020051bd69ed6fba28906101a9a4d57

To test the input method before it is officially released, place the file latn1-pre.mim in /usr/share/m17n/ and select "latn1-pre" as your input source in the Region & Language settings.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Just an update: the problem persists on Ubuntu 14.04 and Mint 17.

Running these commands, as root, works as an workaround:

sed -i "s/az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa/az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa:en/" /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules.cache
sed -i "s/az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa/az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa:en/" /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodules.cache
sed -i "s/ć/ç/g" /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose
sed -i "s/Ć/Ç/g" /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose
echo "GTK_IM_MODULE=cedilla" >> /etc/environment
echo "QT_IM_MODULE=cedilla" >> /etc/environment

Revision history for this message
jose luis (joseluissc) wrote :

dear Sirs
I have read all carefully and I have (need) to tell you the following:
I'm writing to you from a NB that does not have the right (side) CTRL key (I mean, is not a malfunction, it is a design flaw that will gonna follow us until the complete change to the capacitive screen keyboards) and so I have no access to so dear <multikey>
to add more I got sick with what I have read
I'm not a programmer or developer, but I'm all in favor of 'libre' (ubuntu)... so for years I contributed and continue to contribute to the same good and wonderful cause
and instead of discussing strictly percentages of who is using most c-accent or c-cedilla, we combined forces to find a solution? a path? a light?
I am mistaken or this is the one of the main reasons that makes us to be here?

thank you Leandro, #55 applied

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote :

I sent a msg to ubuntu-devel-discuss and it was pointed out that we must identify the affected packages.
I ask them to confirm if these are the affected ones:
ubuntu-keyboard-portuguese
ubuntu-keyboard-spanish
ubuntu-keyboard-english
ubuntu-keyboard-french
I do not think local solutions such as GTK+ workarounds are the way to go.
But maybe I am wrong.
Can someone here also identify if these are the affected packages?

Regards
Calvo

Revision history for this message
Oliver Grawert (ogra) wrote :

these packages are all for the onscreen keyboard in ubuntu phone and tablet installs (part of ubuntu touch and unity8) i highly doubt they are in any way related to this bug.

Revision history for this message
Colin Watson (cjwatson) wrote :

I've set it back to gtk+2.0, since the author of comment #38 offered no explanation of why they were reassigning this bug to simply "Ubuntu" without a package.

affects: ubuntu → gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu)
Revision history for this message
Colin Watson (cjwatson) wrote :

(And yes, I get the idea that it may not be just gtk+2.0, but it's more likely to get developer attention this way than being left in limbo.)

Revision history for this message
gui ambros (guiambros) wrote :

I solved my problem with uim and a custom .XCompose. Works reliably across gtk+2.0 and QT. Documented the steps here:

https://wrgms.com/using-xcompose-with-chrome-and-sublime-text/

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote : Re: [Bug 518056] Re: cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c

Great article...
I followed and installed on my computer and it works flawlessly.

I think I will use it until the bug is fixed.

Question, if I upgrade to a new Ubuntu version would I have to install him
back again?

Regards

Calvo
On Jan 25, 2015 2:20 AM, "gui ambros" <email address hidden> wrote:

> I solved my problem with uim and a custom .XCompose. Works reliably
> across gtk+2.0 and QT. Documented the steps here:
>
> https://wrgms.com/using-xcompose-with-chrome-and-sublime-text/
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/518056
>
> Title:
> cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c
>
> Status in gtk+2.0 package in Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
>
> Bug description:
>
> When typing in a US-international keyboard with dead-keys (or
> UK-international),
> typing 'c results in an accented c instead of a cedilla.
>
> There is a workaround, which is editing the
>
> /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodule-files.d/libgtk2.0-0.immodules
>
> file and changing the line
>
> "cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale"
> "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa"
>
> to
>
> "cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale"
> "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa:en"
>
> (add the 'en' at the end).
>
> However, every time some update on this file is applied, one looses the
> change,
> and we get back to the accented c. That means having to modify the file
> again,
> logout and login.
>
> For me this is no problem. But for my brother, mom, dad, etc, it is
> always something
> that at least makes me less proud of having convinced them to use
> Ubuntu, because
> they don't know what to do each time this happens.
>
> I think we really need a configurable keyboard layout, or at least (and
> that would
> be very easy), the inclusion of alternate layouts on install that for
> the dead-key
> options (as US-deadkey and UK-deakey), alternate layouts as
> US-deadkey-cedilla.
>
> This change is relevant for at least Portuguese and French.
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/518056/+subscriptions
>

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote :

The UIM workaround works perfectly.

The article brought my attention to the possibility of iBus to be the culprit.

I downloaded part of the source code from

https://code.google.com/p/ibus/downloads/detail?name=ibus-table-others-1.2.0.20100512.tar.gz&can=2&q=

decompressing theibus-table-others-1.2.0.20100512.tar.gz
I found the compose.txt file.
This file has a conversion table for several sequences of two characters, including '+c ...

Could someone verify if changing that file in the source would fix the issue?

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote :

If the problem is confirmed to be ibus related, as mentioned in my previous comment, then the package should be set to:

ibus-table-others

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Hi Calvo,

From the compose.txt file you mention, it looks like you are on the right track. Can you please test it by installing the ibus-table-compose package from the Ubuntu archive. By doing so, the file /usr/share/ibus-table/tables/compose.db will be installed, and I think that's the binary version of compose.txt.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Well, considering that '+c seems to be converted to ć via compose.txt, it would probably not help, but to test it I suppose we would need to rebuild ibus-table-others with a modified compose.txt.

Revision history for this message
Felipe Micaroni Lalli (micaroni) wrote :

Please change the priority low to high, this bug is unacceptable.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Considering that some users prefer ć while others prefer ç, a reasonable solution to this bug (as already mentioned) may be to add another keyboard layout. Hence I added a xkeyboard-config task.

OTOH, it looks to me that there are a few layouts already available, which permits you to type the ç character in various ways. For instance, with the "English (US, international with dead keys)" layout, <AltGr>+<comma> gives you ç, and <AltGr>+<Shift>+<comma> gives you Ç. Furthermore, if you run this command:

gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.input-sources show-all-sources true

yet a few other layouts will be available in Text Entry.

So, even if there are quite a few comments in this bug report already, have those of you, who need to type the ç character often, explored the alternatives which are already there?

Changed in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu):
importance: Undecided → Wishlist
status: New → Confirmed
Revision history for this message
Felipe Micaroni Lalli (micaroni) wrote :

Gunnar Hjalmarsson. Well, you can let two layouts. But you have to let "English (US, international)" working in the exactly same behavior it does in older versions of Ubuntu, in Mac OS X, in Window, in other Linux distros etc. I never heard about "English US international" map to ć. I didn't know about this: <AltGr>+<comma> +c gives ç and <AltGr>+<comma> +C gives Ç. Nice to hear that, but this is not the common behavior and absolutely no ones know about that.

This bug is also present on Xubuntu.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

On 2015-01-28 00:54, Felipe Micaroni Lalli wrote:
> ... you have to let "English (US, international)" working in the
> exactly same behavior it does in older versions of Ubuntu, in Mac OS
> X, in Window, in other Linux distros etc.

The Ubuntu package is based on an upstream version of xkeyboard-config. Are you saying that it works differently on other Linux distros? If it does, it's due to differences in versions and/or patches.

But if the behavior is a result of the upstream package, this is indeed an upstream bug, and should be reported as such.

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=xkeyboard-config

Just patching in Ubuntu only, and with that change the behavior also for those who prefer ć before ç, does not sound like a good idea.

In any case, to speed this up, I believe that the necessary research should better be accomplished by those affected.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Hi Gunnar,

thank you for your support. I did know about the altgr+c option. However, it is unacceptable for touch-typists.
Also, not every keyboard has the altgr key and, anyway, the 'c combination is the standard combination for
brazilian typists, so it would be very nice to have an additional layout with that option.

Leandro

Revision history for this message
gui ambros (guiambros) wrote :

@Leandro: did you try the fix I proposed on #61?

Using uim and a custom .Xcompose will solve your issue with 'c (and all others), no patch required.

Revision history for this message
J. S. Lopes (gavranha) wrote :

@gui ambros
Your workaround works :) . Smoothly. This little cedilla has become a PITA in Ubuntu. By the way, I'm running UbuntuStudio 14.04, up-to-date. What we need to do to solve this? I have some time. Maybe you, gui ambros, maybe Leandro knows what must be done. I'll follow this thread. Thanks.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

@J. S. Lopes: An upstream bug report would be helpful. Please see my comment #70.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Dear J. S. Lopes and Gunnar,

I don't know the technical issues related to this problem.

On the other side, I have already reported an upstream bug back in July 2013. Nobody has read it.

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=709569

Leandro.

Revision history for this message
In , Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

There is a long-standing, but simple, problem we, brazilians, face
when installing any linux box, which is that we need that the
stroke combination:

<dead acute> c

gives the cedilla "ç" letter, for the US-International keyboard layout.

The US-International keyboard is used by lots of people in Brazil,
and the touch-type friendly, and standard, stroke for obtaining the
the common ç letter in Portuguese is the ' + c combination.

There is not definitive solution to this problem, which is very
annoying for Brazilians, it is easy to see, by googling "cedilla linux",
or "cedilla ubuntu", how many people is searching for a definitive
solution for this problem. Currently, one can get the ç character
with Alt-Gr + <comma>, or <Alt> + <comma>, but these are not
adequate solutions, particularly because this is not good for touch
typing nor is the standard historic behaviour.

I have suggested in many forums, bug trackers, etc, that a new
keyboard layout should be available on installation, which should
be called, for example,

US-International with dead-keys (cedilla)

There are already many keyboard layouts available, and having
one more solving this problem for all of us brazilians would be great,
and the solution appears to be simple, but we could not get this
to be implemented as of yet.

At this point, there have been linux versions in which the ç was
the default result of the combined strokes, but now, in the most
recent versions (Ubuntu 13.10, for instance), it is back to the
accented c, which makes my upgrades, particularly for my parents
and friends, an enormous headache.

Please help us so that this simple addition reach to correct people.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

I have reported the bug again, at site and package suggested by Gunnar:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89795

Leandro.

Revision history for this message
In , Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

There is long standing discussion on this topic at:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/518056?comments=all

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote :

Could someone check out the ibus theory that I mentioned. I am currently
without a computer... Just mobile.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015, 13:50 Leandro <email address hidden> wrote:

> I have reported the bug again, at site and package suggested by Gunnar:
>
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89795
>
> Leandro.
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/518056
>
> Title:
> cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c
>
> Status in gtk+2.0 package in Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
> Status in xkeyboard-config package in Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
>
> Bug description:
>
> When typing in a US-international keyboard with dead-keys (or
> UK-international),
> typing 'c results in an accented c instead of a cedilla.
>
> There is a workaround, which is editing the
>
> /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodule-files.d/libgtk2.0-0.immodules
>
> file and changing the line
>
> "cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale"
> "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa"
>
> to
>
> "cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale"
> "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa:en"
>
> (add the 'en' at the end).
>
> However, every time some update on this file is applied, one looses the
> change,
> and we get back to the accented c. That means having to modify the file
> again,
> logout and login.
>
> For me this is no problem. But for my brother, mom, dad, etc, it is
> always something
> that at least makes me less proud of having convinced them to use
> Ubuntu, because
> they don't know what to do each time this happens.
>
> I think we really need a configurable keyboard layout, or at least (and
> that would
> be very easy), the inclusion of alternate layouts on install that for
> the dead-key
> options (as US-deadkey and UK-deakey), alternate layouts as
> US-deadkey-cedilla.
>
> This change is relevant for at least Portuguese and French.
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/
> 518056/+subscriptions
>

Revision history for this message
J. S. Lopes (gavranha) wrote :

@Gunnar
It seems to me that since there is an workaround (uim + some local hack) a lot of people who could help speed this up will not. But as long as IBus is used by a lot of distros (default in Ubuntu and Fedora, according to Wikipedia), the issue remains. Could you, please, point me what kind of research should be done? Maybe finding the commit that changed the behaviour? Do you think this can be understood as a regression? Or IBus (assuming it as the culprit) was changed by design? What do you think?

Changed in xkeyboard-config:
importance: Unknown → Medium
status: Unknown → Confirmed
Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

In an attempt to make some progress on this issue, I have uploaded a modified version of the xkeyboard-config package to my PPA at

https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/ubuntu/cedilla-test

It adds the keyboard layout "English (US, international - cedilla)". If you install xkb-data from my PPA and relogin, the new layout should become available in Text Entry.

Please let us know if you think this would be an improvement.

P.S. @J. S. Lopes: Hope this can be considered an answer to your questions for now. ;)

Revision history for this message
J. S. Lopes (gavranha) wrote :

@Gunnar

first of all, thank you for your (weekend :) time and good will with this issue. And yes, of course, this can be considered an answer. Now I know where to start searching for the changes that affected the old behaviour.

Unfortunately, I cannot test your PPA because my machine (this) is running Trusty (14.04.1) in an AMD64. But I have an old spare 386 for tests. I will test in it after work and share here.

If all goes well, I'll try to learn how to package for PPA and (if I succeed, of course) publish a version for Trusty-64 too. Is this ok?

Thanks again and have a nice day.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

xkb-data is architecture independent, so i386, amd64, etc. doesn't matter. As regards different Ubuntu versions, I have successfully installed and run the xkb-data package in my PPA on trusty, utopic, and vivid installs. So even if it was built in utopic, you can install and test it in trusty if you like.

If there proves to be a consensus on this approach to deal with the issue - possibly after some modifications - we should better leave the PPAs and propose that it's included in the archives, both in Ubuntu and upstream.

In other words, I hope that a few users install xdb-data from my PPA, test, and give feedback here.

On 2015-03-30 09:06, J. S. Lopes wrote:
> If all goes well, I'll try to learn how to package for PPA and (if I
> succeed, of course) publish a version for Trusty-64 too. Is this ok?

Of course it's ok - this is free software. ;) But, as I just said, it's not necessary for testing on trusty.

Revision history for this message
J. S. Lopes (gavranha) wrote :

"xkb-data is architecture independent,..."
Great! This makes things easier for everybody.
I'll try again late, after work, and share here. (I've tried with apt-get and, of course, it didn't found the repo. )

"If there proves to be a consensus on this approach to deal with the issue - possibly after some modifications - we should better leave the PPAs and propose that it's included in the archives, both in Ubuntu and upstream."
In my very humble opinion, this seems to be the most KISS solution for the issue.

"In other words, I hope that a few users install xdb-data from my PPA, test, and give feedback here."
I'll help spreading the word and asking some fellows if they are using US intl dead keys keyboards.

Hi, Leandro? What you think about this? Can you help with some testers? Please, share your toughts, friend :)

Thank you, Gunnar.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Dear Gunnar,

Certainly I will. I will do that in the following days. My only doubt is that all my systems were
already modified with all those workarounds for the cedilla. I am not sure if I will be able to verify that the PPA
works as it should.

Thank you very much, this is the way to the solution of this problem.

Leandro.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Dear Gunnar,

I tried installing the package from PPA, but although I can add the PPA correctly,
I get messages like when updating the database:

Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/gunnarhj/cedilla-test/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/binary-amd64/Packages 404 Not Found
Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/gunnarhj/cedilla-test/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/binary-i386/Packages 404 Not Found

How should we proceed with the instalation?

Once that step works, should we install the package with:

sudo apt-get install xkeyboard-config - 2.12-1ubuntu1+cedilla

Is that it?

Thank you again,
Leandro.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

@Leandro: I see that you have Ubuntu 14.04, so this is what you should do: open "Software & Updates", select "Other Software", highlight the cedilla-test item by clicking it and then click the "Edit..." button. In the new window, state utopic as the "Distribution" instead of trusty. I added an attachment which shows the window.

Once that has been changed, you should be able to successfully run

sudo apt-get update

Then you can do

sudo apt-get install xkb-data

or simply

sudo apt-get upgrade

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Dear Gunnar,

I have installed a virtual box of Mint 17 - XFCE and tested your ppa, and it worked perfectly.

This is fantastic. Thank you very much. I hope this gets into the main distributions!

Leandro.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Glad to hear that you appreciate it, Leandro.

I'd like to clarify the nature of the change. Basically I 'stole' the dead key, which in the "English (US, international with dead keys)" layout is used for typing á, é, ć, etc., and converted it to a dead key for typing ȩ, ç, etc. The key is marked with a red frame in the attached graphical layout.

As a consequence, typing e.g. á and é is made more difficult. It can be done with <AltGr>+a respective <AltGr>+e, but there is no longer a dead key for typing á or é.

So I'd like to ask: Is this the best way to fix 'the cedilla issue'? Is this in accordance with people's expectations?

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Hello Gunnar,

I see! No, unfortunately we also need the accute dead keys for á, é, í, ó and ú.

The "key" (phisically speaking) must be the same. That is, 'a = á, and 'c = ç

(We also have other accents, such as à, ã, ê, etc., but all other accents work
perfectly in the US-Intl with dead keys layout. The only exception is the cedilla.

In other words, we need to do what the workarounds do, that is, to change the
behavior of the 'c combination, and only that.

Thanks again,
Leandro.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

On 2015-03-30 22:37, Leandro wrote:
> I see! No, unfortunately we also need the accute dead keys for á, é, í,
> ó and ú.

I suspected that.

> The "key" (phisically speaking) must be the same. That is, 'a = á, and
> 'c = ç

In that case I don't think that an additional keyboard layout is the way to go.

I have played around a little, and as far as I can tell, '+c = ç if the environment variable LC_CTYPE is set to "pt_BR.UTF-8". That's normally the case in Ubuntu when the display language is Brazilian Portuguese. If this is the case (please correct me if I'm wrong), the problem is typically limited to sessions with some other display language but Brazilian Portuguese.

The attached file might be a step forward. If you install that file in /etc/profile.d, the desired behavior with respect to typing '+c will be there as long as either the display language or the regional formats is Brazilian Portuguese.

Please let me know what you think.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Uhm... I am not sure if that actually works as it should.

First, I tried to apply the pt_BR.UTF-8 locale (using export LC_CTYPE="pt_BR.UTF8") but the language pack was not installed,
therefore the workaround would only work after installing the language pack, probably that will create the
same kind of confusion that the workarounds create now.

Anyway, I installed it, and then I could export the LC_CTYPE. I launched a session of gedit and within that gedit session
the ç appeared correctly. However, at the same terminal from where I launched gedit the cedilla continued
to appear as an accented "c", and the same for new terminals launched from that terminal. That is, changing the
LC_CTYPE environment variable did not work system-wide.

At the same time, although there could a combination of Language/Region/Keyboard that provided the correct
behaviour, I am not sure if forcing a specific language for the interface is a reasonable solution to that problem.

Leandro.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

On 2015-03-31 17:15, Leandro wrote:
> First, I tried to apply the pt_BR.UTF-8 locale (using export
> LC_CTYPE="pt_BR.UTF8") but the language pack was not installed,
> therefore the workaround would only work after installing the
> language pack, probably that will create the same kind of confusion
> that the workarounds create now.

Actually it's not necessary that the language packs are installed, but the locale needs to be generated. If you set a Brazil location for the time zone in the installer, you'll end up with "pt_BR.UTF-8" generated to begin with, so in those cases there shouldn't be a reason for user confusion.

Otherwise the locale can be generated either by installing the Brazilian Portuguese language via Language Support or by running this command:

sudo locale-gen pt_BR.UTF-8

> Anyway, I installed it, and then I could export the LC_CTYPE. I
> launched a session of gedit and within that gedit session the ç
> appeared correctly. However, at the same terminal from where I
> launched gedit the cedilla continued to appear as an accented "c",
> and the same for new terminals launched from that terminal. That is,
> changing the LC_CTYPE environment variable did not work system-wide.

Let me guess: You exported LC_CTYPE in a terminal window and then launched gedit from there. That doesn't work for me either.

One way to test it properly is to edit your ~/.profile file by adding this line:

  export LC_CTYPE=pt_BR.UTF-8

and then log out and log in again.

For me it works in the terminal, in gedit, in LibreOffice, and in HTML forms in Firefox.

> At the same time, although there could a combination of
> Language/Region/Keyboard that provided the correct behaviour, I am
> not sure if forcing a specific language for the interface is a
> reasonable solution to that problem.

But we wouldn't force the display language. The LC_CTYPE environment variable would get its value automatically through either of these options:

* Set Brazilian Portuguese as the display language, OR

* Set Brazilian Portuguese as the regional formats.

Both those are controlled via the Language Support GUI, so the user wouldn't need to open a terminal window to fix it.

In addition to that, if you don't want to have Brazilian Portuguese as the display language or the regional formats setting, you can export LC_CTYPE manually in ~/.profile as shown above.

And, again, if the user sets a Brazil location for time zone when installing, the regional formats will be Brazilian Portuguese automatically.

Please note that these things work differently today compared to how it worked when you filed this bug report five years ago. ;)

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Let me add: The reason why setting LC_CTYPE=pt_BR.UTF-8 works is the file /usr/share/X11/locale/pt_BR.UTF-8/Compose which belongs to the libx11-data package.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Thank you Gunnar for the explanation.

Indeed, adding "export LC_CTYPE=pt_BR.UTF-8" to "~/.profile" worked. It seems that the combination
of sudo locale-gen pt_BR.UTF-8 and that works nicely and that it is a nice workaround.

I don't understand yet exactly how this can become a defintive solution.

Leandro.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

On 31/03/2015 18:52, Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
> For me it works in the terminal, in gedit, in LibreOffice, and in HTML
> forms in Firefox.

I can now add that it works in Skype (a qt application) too. I have tested it successfully in trusty, utopic and vivid.

Btw, my selected IM framework is IBus, i.e. the default in Ubuntu (with Chinese as an exception in 15.04). When I tested to switch to fcitx, it did not work. Possibly fcitx will be the default IM framework in Ubuntu 15.10, so fixing it for fcitx may be a future issue.

Btw, the fact that it works for me with IBus is in line with those who stated in previous comments that simply installing ibus made '+c work for typing ç. Maybe they were using Brazilian Portuguese as display language...

On 2015-03-31 23:04, Leandro wrote:
> Indeed, adding "export LC_CTYPE=pt_BR.UTF-8" to "~/.profile" worked. It
> seems that the combination of sudo locale-gen pt_BR.UTF-8 and that works
> nicely and that it is a nice workaround.

Right.

> I don't understand yet exactly how this can become a defintive solution.

Well, my idea is to have the cedilla-brazil.sh file installed on everyone's computers by default. (I'm thinking of including it in the language-selector-common package.)

That way it would work out of the box for those users who select a Brazilian location for the time zone when installing Ubuntu. Otherwise the users can fix it via the Language Selector GUI instead of the command line workaround:

* Open Language Support
* Install the Portuguese language
* Select Brazilian Portuguese *either* as display language *or* as the
  regional formats choice (or both)

Certainly I don't say that this is an ideal solution. Just like you I think it would be more natural to create an alternative keyboard layout which could be selected in Text Entry. I just don't know if and if so how it could be accomplished.

The LC_CTYPE thing appears to be at least an improvement IMO.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

On 31/03/2015 23:37, Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
> Just like you I think it would be more natural to create an
> alternative keyboard layout which could be selected in Text Entry. I
> just don't know if and if so how it could be accomplished.

To clarify: As you know, I figured out how to add an alternative keyboard layout. What I don't know is how you would fix it in xkeyboard-config so the same dead key behaves differently depending on the letter.

One possibility which we haven't discussed is to use some *other* key for dead_cedilla, and leave the behavior of the dead_acute key as is. I see two problems with that, though:

1. No obvious dispensable key which could be used for the purpose.

2. It would be a brand new behavior for the users, and different from
   how it works on Windows.

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote : Re: [Bug 518056] Re: cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c
Download full text (3.2 KiB)

1) Windows -> US International + Br.PT -> '+c = ç
2) Windows -> US International + EN.US -> '+c = 'c
3) Ubuntu -> US International + Br.PT -> '+c = ć
4) Ubuntu -> US International + EN.US -> '+c = 'c
My expectation would be to have the behavior #1 == #3 across the whole
environment, i.e., terminal, gedit, libreoffice...

Previous versions and flavors don't need to be fixed, IMHO.
Focus on the next release because we already have workarounds for the
previous releases.

Regards

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 19:15 Gunnar Hjalmarsson <email address hidden>
wrote:

> On 31/03/2015 23:37, Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
> > Just like you I think it would be more natural to create an
> > alternative keyboard layout which could be selected in Text Entry. I
> > just don't know if and if so how it could be accomplished.
>
> To clarify: As you know, I figured out how to add an alternative
> keyboard layout. What I don't know is how you would fix it in xkeyboard-
> config so the same dead key behaves differently depending on the letter.
>
> One possibility which we haven't discussed is to use some *other* key
> for dead_cedilla, and leave the behavior of the dead_acute key as is. I
> see two problems with that, though:
>
> 1. No obvious dispensable key which could be used for the purpose.
>
> 2. It would be a brand new behavior for the users, and different from
> how it works on Windows.
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/518056
>
> Title:
> cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c
>
> Status in central project for keyboard configuration:
> Confirmed
> Status in gtk+2.0 package in Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
> Status in xkeyboard-config package in Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
>
> Bug description:
>
> When typing in a US-international keyboard with dead-keys (or
> UK-international),
> typing 'c results in an accented c instead of a cedilla.
>
> There is a workaround, which is editing the
>
> /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodule-files.d/libgtk2.0-0.immodules
>
> file and changing the line
>
> "cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale"
> "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa"
>
> to
>
> "cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale"
> "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa:en"
>
> (add the 'en' at the end).
>
> However, every time some update on this file is applied, one looses the
> change,
> and we get back to the accented c. That means having to modify the file
> again,
> logout and login.
>
> For me this is no problem. But for my brother, mom, dad, etc, it is
> always something
> that at least makes me less proud of having convinced them to use
> Ubuntu, because
> they don't know what to do each time this happens.
>
> I think we really need a configurable keyboard layout, or at least (and
> that would
> be very easy), the inclusion of alternate layouts on install that for
> the dead-key
> options (as US-deadkey and UK-deakey), alternate layouts as
> US-deadkey-cedilla.
>
> This change is relevant for at least Portuguese and French.
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+b...

Read more...

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

To make it easier to keep discussing this issue, I committed a change to language-selector, which hopefully is a step in the right direction.

Changed in language-selector (Ubuntu):
assignee: nobody → Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj)
importance: Undecided → Medium
status: New → Fix Committed
Changed in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu):
importance: Low → Medium
Changed in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu):
importance: Wishlist → Medium
Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

@Raphael: Of course we want a consistent behavior in all applications.

Since you mention pt_PT, it should be noted that the commit I just made affects pt_BR only. Possibly there is a reason to do the same for pt_PT, but I think it needs to be discussed first. Added a libX11 task to remember it.

On 2015-04-01 02:47, Raphael das Neves Calvo wrote:
> Previous versions and flavors don't need to be fixed, IMHO. Focus on
> the next release because we already have workarounds for the previous
> releases.

That makes sense for existing users, but wouldn't a better configuration be preferable for new users who install e.g. 14.04?

Revision history for this message
Launchpad Janitor (janitor) wrote :

This bug was fixed in the package language-selector - 0.141

---------------
language-selector (0.141) vivid; urgency=medium

  * data/cedilla-brazil.sh:
    Make it easier for Brazilian Portuguese users to type ccedilla (ç)
    - partial solution to LP: #518056.
 -- Gunnar Hjalmarsson <email address hidden> Wed, 01 Apr 2015 09:56:00 +0200

Changed in language-selector (Ubuntu):
status: Fix Committed → Fix Released
Revision history for this message
Rico Tzschichholz (ricotz) wrote :

@gunnarhj: The syntax of cedilla-brazil.sh is erroneous.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Concerning the pt_PT: The portuguese from Portugal, although it has its differences relative to brazilian
portuguese, has the same accents and it also requires the cedilla the same way, so I suspected that they
had the same problem. I checked, then, the existence of the same tipe of claim in forums from Portugal,
using Google (https://www.google.pt/?gws_rd=ssl#q=cedilha+ubuntu&tbs=ctr:countryPT&cr=countryPT).

Indeed, we can find exactly the same problem for them. Although, as Portugal has 5% the population of Brazil,
the number of posts is much smaller.

Therefore, I think that the fix for this problem should be applied to pt_PT too. And, if there is any other
variation of portuguese (I am not sure if there is one for Angola, Moçambique, etc.), they all sould be
fixed.

Leandro.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

On 2015-04-01 19:24, Rico Tzschichholz wrote:
> @gunnarhj: The syntax of cedilla-brazil.sh is erroneous.

Ouch! It was not a syntax error, really, but still a stupid error. :( Fixed in language-selector 0.142.

Thanks for pointing it out!

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Thanks for your comments re pt_PT, Leandro.

As long as we consider setting LC_CTYPE, in any of the ways mentioned in comment #96, a fix, it should be noted that '+c results in ç irrespective of which keyboard layout you use. In other words, the changed behavior is not conditioned by the use of an English US international keyboard layout, as Raphael suggested in comment #98. I assume that this was considered a reasonable behavior for Brazilian users, considering which physical keyboards are typically used in Brazil.

We could propose a change to the libx11 package which adds a /usr/share/X11/locale/pt_PT.UTF-8/Compose file. But before proposing such a change I would like to ask if it would make as much sense for users living in Portugal as the corresponding Brazilian file makes for users living in Brazil.

* Do users who live in Portugal use an English US international
  keyboard layout as often as Brazilian users do, or do they typically
  use some Portuguese keyboard layout?

* Since the behavior may make typing certain other European languages
  more difficult, is that drawback possibly of greater importance for
  users living in Portugal (Europe)?

The only Portuguese locales which are supported in Ubuntu are pt_PT and pt_BR.

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote :
Download full text (4.2 KiB)

Gunnar,

My guess here is based on history but maybe I am wrong....
The reason we Brazilians use the US international keyboard so much is
because in the '70s and '80s we didn't have a national industry to cope
with our internal demands for products related to computers. Almost every
single computer we had was imported (leggaly or illegally) from USA or it
was a clone made by our industry based on an US computer model.

Portugal may have had a similar issue (I am especulating here) because they
were also under a dictatorship for some time, but in their case if a
similar situation occurred than they would probably had access to some
design made in Europe instead of something from US. Again, I am
especulating... It is just a theory but Leandro pointed out that he made a
brief research about this issue being relevant to Portuguese people and he
found some links to substantiate the claim that Portugueses would be
benefited from this fix.

Kind Regards

Calvo

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015, 19:50 Gunnar Hjalmarsson <email address hidden>
wrote:

> Thanks for your comments re pt_PT, Leandro.
>
> As long as we consider setting LC_CTYPE, in any of the ways mentioned in
> comment #96, a fix, it should be noted that '+c results in ç
> irrespective of which keyboard layout you use. In other words, the
> changed behavior is not conditioned by the use of an English US
> international keyboard layout, as Raphael suggested in comment #98. I
> assume that this was considered a reasonable behavior for Brazilian
> users, considering which physical keyboards are typically used in
> Brazil.
>
> We could propose a change to the libx11 package which adds a
> /usr/share/X11/locale/pt_PT.UTF-8/Compose file. But before proposing
> such a change I would like to ask if it would make as much sense for
> users living in Portugal as the corresponding Brazilian file makes for
> users living in Brazil.
>
> * Do users who live in Portugal use an English US international
> keyboard layout as often as Brazilian users do, or do they typically
> use some Portuguese keyboard layout?
>
> * Since the behavior may make typing certain other European languages
> more difficult, is that drawback possibly of greater importance for
> users living in Portugal (Europe)?
>
> The only Portuguese locales which are supported in Ubuntu are pt_PT and
> pt_BR.
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/518056
>
> Title:
> cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c
>
> Status in central project for keyboard configuration:
> Confirmed
> Status in gtk+2.0 package in Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
> Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
> Fix Released
> Status in libx11 package in Ubuntu:
> New
> Status in xkeyboard-config package in Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
>
> Bug description:
>
> When typing in a US-international keyboard with dead-keys (or
> UK-international),
> typing 'c results in an accented c instead of a cedilla.
>
> There is a workaround, which is editing the
>
> /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodule-files.d/libgtk2.0-0.immodules
>
> file and changing the line
>
> "cedilla" "C...

Read more...

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote :
Download full text (4.7 KiB)

One more thing...

In the glory days of DR-DOS/MS-DOS, if I am not mistaken, there was no
keyboard setup specially made for Brazil regarding US International
keyboard. It was a setup for Latin languages, I.e., every country that has
a latin language was affected (French, portuguese, Italian...)

Regards

Calvo

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015, 09:39 Raphael Calvo <email address hidden> wrote:

> Gunnar,
>
> My guess here is based on history but maybe I am wrong....
> The reason we Brazilians use the US international keyboard so much is
> because in the '70s and '80s we didn't have a national industry to cope
> with our internal demands for products related to computers. Almost every
> single computer we had was imported (leggaly or illegally) from USA or it
> was a clone made by our industry based on an US computer model.
>
> Portugal may have had a similar issue (I am especulating here) because
> they were also under a dictatorship for some time, but in their case if a
> similar situation occurred than they would probably had access to some
> design made in Europe instead of something from US. Again, I am
> especulating... It is just a theory but Leandro pointed out that he made a
> brief research about this issue being relevant to Portuguese people and he
> found some links to substantiate the claim that Portugueses would be
> benefited from this fix.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Calvo
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2015, 19:50 Gunnar Hjalmarsson <email address hidden>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your comments re pt_PT, Leandro.
>>
>> As long as we consider setting LC_CTYPE, in any of the ways mentioned in
>> comment #96, a fix, it should be noted that '+c results in ç
>> irrespective of which keyboard layout you use. In other words, the
>> changed behavior is not conditioned by the use of an English US
>> international keyboard layout, as Raphael suggested in comment #98. I
>> assume that this was considered a reasonable behavior for Brazilian
>> users, considering which physical keyboards are typically used in
>> Brazil.
>>
>> We could propose a change to the libx11 package which adds a
>> /usr/share/X11/locale/pt_PT.UTF-8/Compose file. But before proposing
>> such a change I would like to ask if it would make as much sense for
>> users living in Portugal as the corresponding Brazilian file makes for
>> users living in Brazil.
>>
>> * Do users who live in Portugal use an English US international
>> keyboard layout as often as Brazilian users do, or do they typically
>> use some Portuguese keyboard layout?
>>
>> * Since the behavior may make typing certain other European languages
>> more difficult, is that drawback possibly of greater importance for
>> users living in Portugal (Europe)?
>>
>> The only Portuguese locales which are supported in Ubuntu are pt_PT and
>> pt_BR.
>>
>> --
>> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
>> report.
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/518056
>>
>> Title:
>> cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c
>>
>> Status in central project for keyboard configuration:
>> Confirmed
>> Status in gtk+2.0 package in Ubuntu:
>> Confirmed
>> Status in language-selector package in ...

Read more...

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote :
Download full text (6.0 KiB)

We can find some "evidence" of what I am saying here about the Latin Code
page for MS-DOS.

http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/KEYB

Here follows a screenshot of the MS-DOS character set setup a.k.a.
codepage).

Note that in the keyboard code in Brazil is Empty... That is because on
that time in history we did not have a keyboard. Only in the 90's that we
standardized a Brazilian keyboard (ABNT2).

You can also note that for EVERY Latin country the carachter set was code
page 437 which in "modern" versions of MS-DOS (I believe since MS-DOS 5.0)
was superseded by code page 850.

The only thing that changes is the keyboard layout (for countries that had
their own layouts) but the combination of symbols and letters to represent
a new one such as ç was the same independent of the keyboard chosen.

Since in Brazil we did not have a specific keyboard we used the US
International (code 103) with the code page set to 850.

Portugal had their own keyboard layout but if they were using the US
international keyboard layout the behavior was the same as here in Brazil.

... Maybe this help...

Regards

Calvo

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015, 09:44 Raphael Calvo <email address hidden> wrote:

> One more thing...
>
> In the glory days of DR-DOS/MS-DOS, if I am not mistaken, there was no
> keyboard setup specially made for Brazil regarding US International
> keyboard. It was a setup for Latin languages, I.e., every country that has
> a latin language was affected (French, portuguese, Italian...)
>
> Regards
>
> Calvo
>
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2015, 09:39 Raphael Calvo <email address hidden> wrote:
>
>> Gunnar,
>>
>> My guess here is based on history but maybe I am wrong....
>> The reason we Brazilians use the US international keyboard so much is
>> because in the '70s and '80s we didn't have a national industry to cope
>> with our internal demands for products related to computers. Almost every
>> single computer we had was imported (leggaly or illegally) from USA or it
>> was a clone made by our industry based on an US computer model.
>>
>> Portugal may have had a similar issue (I am especulating here) because
>> they were also under a dictatorship for some time, but in their case if a
>> similar situation occurred than they would probably had access to some
>> design made in Europe instead of something from US. Again, I am
>> especulating... It is just a theory but Leandro pointed out that he made a
>> brief research about this issue being relevant to Portuguese people and he
>> found some links to substantiate the claim that Portugueses would be
>> benefited from this fix.
>>
>> Kind Regards
>>
>> Calvo
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2015, 19:50 Gunnar Hjalmarsson <email address hidden>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your comments re pt_PT, Leandro.
>>>
>>> As long as we consider setting LC_CTYPE, in any of the ways mentioned in
>>> comment #96, a fix, it should be noted that '+c results in ç
>>> irrespective of which keyboard layout you use. In other words, the
>>> changed behavior is not conditioned by the use of an English US
>>> international keyboard layout, as Raphael suggested in comment #98. I
>>> assume that this was considered a reasonable behavior for Brazilian
>>> user...

Read more...

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Thanks for the additional info, Raphael!

Both Leandro's research and your input indeed indicate that we should make the same change for pt_PT, but it would be good if someone living in Portugal could comment on it first, so we don't upload something based on speculation.

Are you Brazilian guys reasonably satisfied with 'the LC_CTYPE approach' for now?

As regards the possible future fcitx issue I mentioned, I filed bug #1439231.

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote :

Gunnar,
I do agree we must have input from someone from Portugal to validate
everything we are saying...
But, even though I especulated about Portugal history the other post with
MS-DOS configuration data is solid data and can be corroborated with a
simple web research.

Regards.

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015, 10:35 Gunnar Hjalmarsson <email address hidden>
wrote:

> Thanks for the additional info, Raphael!
>
> Both Leandro's research and your input indeed indicate that we should
> make the same change for pt_PT, but it would be good if someone living
> in Portugal could comment on it first, so we don't upload something
> based on speculation.
>
> Are you Brazilian guys reasonably satisfied with 'the LC_CTYPE approach'
> for now?
>
> As regards the possible future fcitx issue I mentioned, I filed bug
> #1439231.
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/518056
>
> Title:
> cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c
>
> Status in central project for keyboard configuration:
> Confirmed
> Status in gtk+2.0 package in Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
> Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
> Fix Released
> Status in libx11 package in Ubuntu:
> New
> Status in xkeyboard-config package in Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
>
> Bug description:
>
> When typing in a US-international keyboard with dead-keys (or
> UK-international),
> typing 'c results in an accented c instead of a cedilla.
>
> There is a workaround, which is editing the
>
> /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodule-files.d/libgtk2.0-0.immodules
>
> file and changing the line
>
> "cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale"
> "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa"
>
> to
>
> "cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale"
> "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa:en"
>
> (add the 'en' at the end).
>
> However, every time some update on this file is applied, one looses the
> change,
> and we get back to the accented c. That means having to modify the file
> again,
> logout and login.
>
> For me this is no problem. But for my brother, mom, dad, etc, it is
> always something
> that at least makes me less proud of having convinced them to use
> Ubuntu, because
> they don't know what to do each time this happens.
>
> I think we really need a configurable keyboard layout, or at least (and
> that would
> be very easy), the inclusion of alternate layouts on install that for
> the dead-key
> options (as US-deadkey and UK-deakey), alternate layouts as
> US-deadkey-cedilla.
>
> This change is relevant for at least Portuguese and French.
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/518056/+subscriptions
>

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote :

Gunnar

Thank you very much for your time trying to solve this bug with the
community.

It is really important for us in Brazil and for Ubuntu as well.

Best regards man!

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015, 10:50 Raphael Calvo <email address hidden> wrote:

> Gunnar,
> I do agree we must have input from someone from Portugal to validate
> everything we are saying...
> But, even though I especulated about Portugal history the other post with
> MS-DOS configuration data is solid data and can be corroborated with a
> simple web research.
>
> Regards.
>
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2015, 10:35 Gunnar Hjalmarsson <email address hidden>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the additional info, Raphael!
>>
>> Both Leandro's research and your input indeed indicate that we should
>> make the same change for pt_PT, but it would be good if someone living
>> in Portugal could comment on it first, so we don't upload something
>> based on speculation.
>>
>> Are you Brazilian guys reasonably satisfied with 'the LC_CTYPE approach'
>> for now?
>>
>> As regards the possible future fcitx issue I mentioned, I filed bug
>> #1439231.
>>
>> --
>> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
>> report.
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/518056
>>
>> Title:
>> cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c
>>
>> Status in central project for keyboard configuration:
>> Confirmed
>> Status in gtk+2.0 package in Ubuntu:
>> Confirmed
>> Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
>> Fix Released
>> Status in libx11 package in Ubuntu:
>> New
>> Status in xkeyboard-config package in Ubuntu:
>> Confirmed
>>
>> Bug description:
>>
>> When typing in a US-international keyboard with dead-keys (or
>> UK-international),
>> typing 'c results in an accented c instead of a cedilla.
>>
>> There is a workaround, which is editing the
>>
>> /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodule-files.d/libgtk2.0-0.immodules
>>
>> file and changing the line
>>
>> "cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale"
>> "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa"
>>
>> to
>>
>> "cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale"
>> "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa:en"
>>
>> (add the 'en' at the end).
>>
>> However, every time some update on this file is applied, one looses the
>> change,
>> and we get back to the accented c. That means having to modify the file
>> again,
>> logout and login.
>>
>> For me this is no problem. But for my brother, mom, dad, etc, it is
>> always something
>> that at least makes me less proud of having convinced them to use
>> Ubuntu, because
>> they don't know what to do each time this happens.
>>
>> I think we really need a configurable keyboard layout, or at least (and
>> that would
>> be very easy), the inclusion of alternate layouts on install that for
>> the dead-key
>> options (as US-deadkey and UK-deakey), alternate layouts as
>> US-deadkey-cedilla.
>>
>> This change is relevant for at least Portuguese and French.
>>
>> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/518056/+subscriptions
>>
>

Revision history for this message
In , Sergey V. Udaltsov (svu) wrote :

Thanks for the report. Is there a patch for xkeyboard-config? I could not find one.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Dear Gunnar,

I think the "LC_TYPE" approach will solve much of the complains, because I think most people installing Ubuntu will be physically located in Brazil and will naturally choose the location as Brazil. If in that case the cedilla will be typed as we expect it, that will be fine.

At the same time, when that does not happen, the fix will remain pretty complicated to explain, and forcing someone to change the time-zone or the display language (I understand those are the options) can be frustrating. For example, for Brazilians living somewhere else this might be strange. Also, when things do not work out as expected, I think people will start looking for solutions and still will find them only in this bug report, as the workaround will be very unatural.

Leandro.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Concerning the pt_PT: Although we do not have manifestations from Portuguese people, we can be quite certain (as we know the Portuguese language :-) ) that the fix will be useful for them as well. Concerning other latin languages: Spanish, French, Italian, none of them have the acute-c character, so probably few people will notice the change. On the contrary, French has the cedilla character. They do not complain about that because their keyboard is totally different (including letters interchanged) so are always out of their confort zone when typing in any qwerty keyboard anyway.

Of course, there will be some people trying to type, for instance, Serbian, with some keyboard, and they will need the accute-c letter. However, as mentioned in some comment above, they will also need many other letters that are not easy to type in the US keyboard anyway, so preserving the accute-c for the Portuguese people will affect very, very few people, and only in a very unusual way.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Hi Leandro!

On 2015-04-06 14:44, Leandro wrote:
> I think the "LC_TYPE" approach will solve much of the complains,
> because I think most people installing Ubuntu will be physically
> located in Brazil and will naturally choose the location as Brazil.
> If in that case the cedilla will be typed as we expect it, that will
> be fine.

With the latest change to language-selector, that's how it will work in 15.04.

> At the same time, when that does not happen, the fix will remain
> pretty complicated to explain, and forcing someone to change the
> time-zone or the display language (I understand those are the
> options) can be frustrating.

The time-zone part is a misconception.

The time zone location is only relevant in the installer. The installer does not have a separate window for setting "Regional Formats", i.e. things like date/time and number formats, currency symbol etc. Instead it 'guesses' the regional formats based on the selected time zone location. So if you select a Brazilian time zone location in the installer, you'll end up with an installation where the regional formats are Brazilian Portuguese.

If you don't, and if you don't either select Brazilian Portuguese as the language, there is no reason to change to another time zone afterwards. Instead you can open the Language Support GUI, install Portuguese, and then change either the language or *the regional formats* (or both) to Brazilian Portuguese.

(And as a last resort, if you don't want Brazilian Portuguese as the display language or the regional formats, you can instead generate the pt_BR.UTF-8 locale and edit ~/.profile.)

This, in itself, shouldn't be very complicated to explain. After all, it's reasonable that you need to do *something* to get the desired behavior, isn't it?

> ... when things do not work out as expected, I think people will
> start looking for solutions and still will find them only in this bug
> report, as the workaround will be very unatural.

Right, personally I think the biggest issue here is how to get the message out. People may end up at this bug report, with quite a few suggested workarounds. There is also Ask Ubuntu. I added an answer to

http://askubuntu.com/questions/363115

However, that's just one answer among a bunch of others, basically suggesting the same workarounds as have been mentioned in this report.

How are things working in Brazil? Does it exist any local adapted ISO file (e.g. a Brazilian remix)? Is there any local support forum, from where the word could be spread?

As regards pt_PT, we could make it work the same way as it does for pt_BR in the beginning of next development cycle. Then a few months will pass before the release of 15.10, and if - contrary to expectation - people don't like it, the change might be reverted before release.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Dear Gunnar,

Thank you very much, this is a great progress on this issue.

The brazilian community is very active for Ubuntu and other linux distros, and flavours and forums
exist. I will do my best to "pass the message", such that this solution becomes heard over the many
other workarounds.

By the way, I will take the liberty to reproduce here the solution you posted on askubuntu:

==========================================================================

                                                         SOLUÇÃO / SOLUTION

==========================================================================

Não importa que idioma você tenha instalado no seu sistema, quando estiver usando
o teclado US-Internacional (with dead keys), a cedilha será digitada pela combinação '+c
seguindo estes passos:

1. Gere o "local" pt_BR.UTF-8:

sudo locale-gen pt_BR.UTF-8

2. Adicione isto ao seu ~/.profile :

export LC_CTYPE=pt_BR.UTF-8

(saia e entre da sua seção)

Caso o suporte para língua portuguesa estiver instalado, estes dois passos não são necessários.
Basta você escolher "Português Brasileiro" como idioma de interface. Na versão do Ubuntu 15.04
ou superior bastará escolher o idioma de interface OU as configurações regionais como
"Português Brasileiro".

=============================================================================

In English, as originally posted by Gunnar at http://askubuntu.com/questions/363115/how-to-type-latin-small-letter-c-with-cedilla

"Whichever language you are using, all you need to do, to make '+c result in ç, is:

    Generate the pt_BR.UTF-8 locale, if it's not already available:

    sudo locale-gen pt_BR.UTF-8

    Add this line to your ~/.profile file:

    export LC_CTYPE=pt_BR.UTF-8

If you are a Brazilian user, and install the Portuguese language - either when installing or later from Language Support - you can skip the just mentioned steps. Instead you can just open Language Support and select Brazilian Portuguese as the display language. As from Ubuntu 15.04 it's sufficient to select Brazilian Portuguese as the Regional Formats setting."

=========================================================================

Revision history for this message
In , Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Hi Sergey,

(In reply to Sergey V. Udaltsov from comment #2)
> Is there a patch for xkeyboard-config?

Well, there is, sort of, in my PPA.
https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/ubuntu/cedilla-test/+packages

But that patch simply turns the <dead_acute> key into a <dead_cedilla> key, and it turned out that that's not what the Brazilian users would like to see. The desired behavior is that the <dead_acute> key followed by the c key results in ccedilla, while keeping the original behavior for other letters.

Preliminary we have abandoned the idea to fix this in xkeyboard-config, and are now trying to make use of x11 compose instead.

Nevertheless, if it is at all possible to achieve the desired behavior with xkeyboard-config only, it would probably be the most robust solution, and also most convenient for the users. Do you possibly have an idea whether it can be done?

Thanks!

Revision history for this message
In , Sergey V. Udaltsov (svu) wrote :

> Preliminary we have abandoned the idea to fix this in xkeyboard-config, and
> are now trying to make use of x11 compose instead.
>
> Nevertheless, if it is at all possible to achieve the desired behavior with
> xkeyboard-config only, it would probably be the most robust solution, and
> also most convenient for the users. Do you possibly have an idea whether it
> can be done?
The way you describe it, it is really for compose. So I am marking this bag as NOTOURBUG.

Revision history for this message
Felipe Micaroni Lalli (micaroni) wrote :

Unfortunately I tested all solutions in this long thread and it does not work in all cases. For example, for me, in Emacs I still get ć instead ç and in IntelliJ and Webstorm the same. I have to let a gedit opened, type there and then copy/paste, what is a mess! This fix have to rollback exactly the same behavior we had in old versions of Ubuntu, and the same behavior we have in all other systems: OpenBSD, Windows, Mac OSX etc. It is a shame Ubuntu still have this bug so long!

Revision history for this message
In , James H. Cloos Jr. (cloos-jhcloos) wrote :

> The desired behavior is that the <dead_acute> key followed by the c key
> results in ccedilla, while keeping the original behavior for other letters.

It already does in the pt_BR.UTF-8 locale.

The compose file for pt_BR.UTF-8 includes the en_US.UTF-8 file and then overrides some of the sequences, including:

  XCOMM Overriding C with acute:
  <dead_acute> <C> : "Ç" Ccedilla # LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA
  <dead_acute> <c> : "ç" ccedilla # LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA

Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote : Re: [Bug 518056] Re: cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c

@Felipe
Venting out frustrations will not help in getting the bug fixed.
Let us try to be more factual.
You came up with a test case.
Please give your feedback in an orderly way so Canonical and the community
can help.
What version of Ubuntu were you testing.
Which sw did you test and what was the pass/fail status is each one.

Regards

Calvo

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015, 19:45 Felipe Micaroni Lalli <email address hidden> wrote:

> Unfortunately I tested all solutions in this long thread and it does not
> work in all cases. For example, for me, in Emacs I still get ć instead ç
> and in IntelliJ and Webstorm the same. I have to let a gedit opened,
> type there and then copy/paste, what is a mess! This fix have to
> rollback exactly the same behavior we had in old versions of Ubuntu, and
> the same behavior we have in all other systems: OpenBSD, Windows, Mac
> OSX etc. It is a shame Ubuntu still have this bug so long!
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/518056
>
> Title:
> cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c
>
> Status in central project for keyboard configuration:
> Confirmed
> Status in gtk+2.0 package in Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
> Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
> Fix Released
> Status in libx11 package in Ubuntu:
> New
> Status in xkeyboard-config package in Ubuntu:
> Confirmed
>
> Bug description:
>
> When typing in a US-international keyboard with dead-keys (or
> UK-international),
> typing 'c results in an accented c instead of a cedilla.
>
> There is a workaround, which is editing the
>
> /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodule-files.d/libgtk2.0-0.immodules
>
> file and changing the line
>
> "cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale"
> "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa"
>
> to
>
> "cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk20" "/usr/share/locale"
> "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa:en"
>
> (add the 'en' at the end).
>
> However, every time some update on this file is applied, one looses the
> change,
> and we get back to the accented c. That means having to modify the file
> again,
> logout and login.
>
> For me this is no problem. But for my brother, mom, dad, etc, it is
> always something
> that at least makes me less proud of having convinced them to use
> Ubuntu, because
> they don't know what to do each time this happens.
>
> I think we really need a configurable keyboard layout, or at least (and
> that would
> be very easy), the inclusion of alternate layouts on install that for
> the dead-key
> options (as US-deadkey and UK-deakey), alternate layouts as
> US-deadkey-cedilla.
>
> This change is relevant for at least Portuguese and French.
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/518056/+subscriptions
>

Revision history for this message
Felipe Micaroni Lalli (micaroni) wrote :

@raphael-calvo Your tears are delicious.

Revision history for this message
In , Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Thanks for pointing it out, James. Yes, we are already about to make use of x11 compose instead, and your and Sergey's comments confirm that we probably are on the right track by doing so.

no longer affects: xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu)
Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

@Felipe: I have now tested the fix of Post 115 and it works in Emacs as well in a new instalation of Linux Mint.

If you confirm that it does not work for you, please let us know the details. (Please remember setting the keyboard
to US-International with dead keys).

Revision history for this message
Felipe Micaroni Lalli (micaroni) wrote :

@leandromartinez98

In Emacs inside terminal (with the option -nw) it works very fine! But not in Emacs windowed version.

GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.10.9)
 of 2014-06-06 on brownie, modified by Debian

My system is a Xubuntu:

No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Ubuntu
Description: Ubuntu 14.10
Release: 14.10
Codename: utopic

I also have problem with WebStorm 10.0 and IntelliJ 13.1.6

I tried your solution but without kill my session (I'm sorry, I can't do it right now). There is a way to test without killing the section? Isn't "source ~/.profile" not enough?

Thank you.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Hi Felipe,

I tried it on the windowed emacs, and it worked. I think you need to logout and login again so that the new
option applies to all instances of your session.

Leandro.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

I have prepared for supporting pt_PT in the same manner as pt_BR, and when doing so I learned some new stuff.

The default input method framework in Ubuntu is IBus, and as long as IBus is enabled, it's actually IBus which turns '+c to ç when LC_CTYPE is "pt_BR.UTF-8". Only when IBus is disabled, the libx11 package makes a difference. Consequently, to properly support pt_PT, both the ibus and the libx11 packages need to be changed. (A minor adjustment to language-selector will also be needed.)

I created a new PPA, and uploaded modified (utopic) versions of ibus and libx11 there:

https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/ubuntu/cedilla-portugal

affects: gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) → ubuntu
Changed in ubuntu:
assignee: nobody → Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj)
status: Confirmed → In Progress
affects: ubuntu → ibus (Ubuntu)
Changed in libx11 (Ubuntu):
assignee: nobody → Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj)
importance: Undecided → Medium
status: New → In Progress
Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote : Typing the ccedilla(ç) character

Hi all!

I'm involved in the resolution of an Ubuntu bug about typing the ç
character.

https://launchpad.net/bugs/518056

It was a Brazilian user who filed the bug report, and the requested
behavior is to be able to use the dead key + c ('+c) to type ç. It
should be noted that the "English (US, international with dead keys)"
keyboard layout is frequently used in Brazil. We have now figured out a
decent way to set it up as desired from a Brazilian POV.

We believe it would be a good idea to implement the same solution for
users in Portugal (the pt_PT.UTF-8 locale). However, it would be great
if some of you could comment on it first. There are a few comments in
the bug report (#103 - #113) about making it work the same way for pt_PT
as it works for pt_BR.

Looking forward to know about your opinions, either in the bug report or
by replying to this message.

--
Cheers,

Gunnar Hjalmarsson
https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj

Changed in xkeyboard-config:
status: Confirmed → Won't Fix
Revision history for this message
Felipe Micaroni Lalli (micaroni) wrote :

@gunnarhj the same solution should be applied to pt_PT, you are right.

Revision history for this message
Felipe Micaroni Lalli (micaroni) wrote :

@leandromartinez98 your solution works also to IntelliJ, Webstorm and Emacs after the restart, thank you. Will this bug be fixed natively to next versions of Ubuntu?

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Thank you Felipe for your feedback. Actually it is Gunnar's solution :-). Anyway, the idea at this point is that
in the next releases that will be the behavior if the user sets the interface language or the language settings
to Portuguese (with the US-International - dead keys keyboard).

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

On 2015-04-23 19:13, Felipe Micaroni Lalli wrote:
> Will this bug be fixed natively to next versions of Ubuntu?

It's not clear to me what you mean.

As regards Brazilian Portuguese, there is nothing left to do, as far as I can tell. There are three ways to enable the '+c = ç behavior in Ubuntu 15.04, assuming that you keep IBus (default) as the IM framework:

1. Select Brazilian Portuguese as the display language (via Language
   Support).

2. Select Brazilian Portuguese as the regional formats setting (via
   Language Support).

3. Set the LC_CTYPE variable manually, as explained in comment #115.

I will probably propose that the same is set up for Portuguese (Portugal) when the development of 15.10 opens.

Revision history for this message
In , Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Created attachment 115532
Add pt_PT.UTF-8 compose file

This is a forward of the Ubuntu bug https://launchpad.net/bugs/518056

One of the conclusions from the discussion on that bug report, which basically is about typing the ccedilla character easily on a non-Portuguese keyboard, is that X11 should include a compose file for pt_PT.UTF-8 similar to the file for pt_BR.UTF-8.

Changed in xlibs:
importance: Unknown → Medium
status: Unknown → Confirmed
Revision history for this message
In , Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Please note that this bug needs to be resolved before this ibus issue:
https://code.google.com/p/ibus/issues/detail?id=1777

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Comment #124 above was a request for comments at the mailing list for the Ubuntu Portugal team:

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-pt/2015-April/thread.html#10723

The replies I got there, together with the comments on this bug report, are sufficient as a base for making it work the same way for pt_PT as it currently does for pt_BR. Accordingly I have seeked sponsorship for uploading those changes in Wily.

Changed in language-selector (Ubuntu):
status: Fix Released → In Progress
Revision history for this message
In , Paulo Costa (oliveira-phc) wrote :

It's difficult for brazilians to get used to Ubuntu since such a simple thing as typing is compromised. Never heard about ' + c resulting in ć. This is not observed in other Linux distros, OSX and Windows.

This strange behaviour is intentional, but there is also bug which makes harder for us to type properly. We really should use "Portuguese (Brazil, nativo for USA keyboards)" for typing in portuguese with an american keyboard, but such layout is totally messed up.

Revision history for this message
Smonff (smonff) wrote :

For Emacs on a qwerty keyboard, it is possible to type the "ç" by typing right compose + ,

Revision history for this message
Felipe Lauksas (lauksas) wrote :

This also affect me as Brazilian.
Looking forward to have this old odd behavior gone.
I would fork if I had any experience in this kind of development.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

On 2015-09-08 16:20, Felipe Lauksas wrote:
> This also affect me as Brazilian.
> Looking forward to have this old odd behavior gone.

It's not clear to me what you are waiting for, Felipe. As regards Brazilian Portuguese, the current behaviour is described in e.g. comment #132 of this bug report.

Martin Pitt (pitti)
Changed in libx11 (Ubuntu):
status: In Progress → Fix Committed
Revision history for this message
Launchpad Janitor (janitor) wrote :

This bug was fixed in the package libx11 - 2:1.6.3-1ubuntu2

---------------
libx11 (2:1.6.3-1ubuntu2) wily; urgency=medium

  * debian/patches/016_add_pt_PT.UTF-8_Compose.diff:
    - Add compose file for pt_PT.UTF-8 equivalent to pt_BR.UTF-8
      (LP: #518056).

 -- Gunnar Hjalmarsson <email address hidden> Fri, 18 Sep 2015 13:45:21 +0200

Changed in libx11 (Ubuntu):
status: Fix Committed → Fix Released
Revision history for this message
In , Timo Aaltonen (tjaalton) wrote :

you probably should send the patch to the list, it only gets lost here:

http://www.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/SubmittingPatches/

Revision history for this message
In , James H. Cloos Jr. (cloos-jhcloos) wrote :

A git patch would be welcome, but we at least need a signoff line for the patch.

Revision history for this message
In , Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

I sent the patch to the list:

http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2015-September/047462.html

I added a sign off line, unlike the patch attached here, in the hope that someone will convert it to proper git format.

Revision history for this message
In , James H. Cloos Jr. (cloos-jhcloos) wrote :

Pushed as commit 121a1bad334459f66f78bfca6df53dc841cf97f8.

Revision history for this message
In , Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Thanks, James!

Changed in xlibs:
status: Confirmed → Fix Released
Revision history for this message
Walter Ribeiro (wribeirojr) wrote :

Is this a kind of regression?
This bug was reported 5 years ago and apparently had been corrected. But it suddenly returned in 15.10.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

On 2015-10-13 13:25, Walter Ribeiro wrote:
> This bug ... suddenly returned in 15.10.

Can you please elaborate.

Do you possibly have im-config 0.29-1ubuntu5 installed? In that case you should update your system.

Revision history for this message
Walter Ribeiro (wribeirojr) wrote :

I have im-config 0.29-1ubuntu6 installed.

And accented c (ć) still appears instead of ç when typing 'c

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

@Walter: I don't have that problem. Are you on Unity or one of the flavours? Can you please run the locale command in a terminal window and post the output here?

Revision history for this message
Walter Ribeiro (wribeirojr) wrote :

Here it is:

locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory
locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
LANG=pt_BR:pt:en
LANGUAGE=pt_BR
LC_CTYPE=pt_BR.UTF-8
LC_NUMERIC=pt_BR.UTF-8
LC_TIME=pt_BR.UTF-8
LC_COLLATE="pt_BR:pt:en"
LC_MONETARY=pt_BR.UTF-8
LC_MESSAGES="pt_BR:pt:en"
LC_PAPER=pt_BR.UTF-8
LC_NAME=pt_BR.UTF-8
LC_ADDRESS=pt_BR.UTF-8
LC_TELEPHONE=pt_BR.UTF-8
LC_MEASUREMENT=pt_BR.UTF-8
LC_IDENTIFICATION=pt_BR.UTF-8
LC_ALL=

Revision history for this message
Walter Ribeiro (wribeirojr) wrote :

And yes, I'm using Unity installed on a second partition from Wily Beta setup installer.
Unity 7.3.2+15.10.20151002.20ubuntu1
Ubuntu 15.10 amd64

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Your locale is broken, which explains it. You need to change the LANG value to pt_BR.UTF-8.

Revision history for this message
Walter Ribeiro (wribeirojr) wrote :

Ok, Gunnar. Thank you!

But I didn't change the value of LANG manually.
It was set automaticly by the installation, using setup interface, which continues to be a problem.

Do you agree?

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

If that is the case, it's indeed a serious bug, which you should report separately against the ubiquity package.

Revision history for this message
Walter Ribeiro (wribeirojr) wrote :

I will try a new installation, using a newer ISO . I'll do what you suggest if the problem persists .
Thanks for your support .

Revision history for this message
Alroger Filho (alroger-cafe-ti) wrote :

What a fun discussion.

Just a reminder... '+c has always been ç since MS-DOS, in US International Keyboard... MS-DOS, PC-DOS, Basic, Apple, old computers, Wordstar, Lotus123, Windows, OS/2, Unix in general... somewhere around Ubuntu 7, or Fedora 5 it started coming as an accented ć, was fixed in Ubuntu 8.04, and accented again after that.

Very frustrating. Gotta learn a new "patch" every new version of Ubuntu.

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

As from ibus 1.5.11-1ubuntu1, ibus honors X11 compose files. With this change, together with the pending language-selector commit, all Portuguese users can type ccedilla easily in xenial.

If either the display language or the regional formats setting is a Portuguese option, '+c will automatically result in ccedilla (ç).

* It works in the same way for Brazilian Portuguese and Portuguese
  as spoken in Portugal.

* It works whether the input method framework in use is ibus,
  fcitx, uim, or none.

If neither the display language nor the regional formats setting is a Portuguese option, you can enable this feature manually by opening your ~/.profile file for editing and adding this line:

export XCOMPOSEFILE=/usr/share/X11/locale/pt_BR.UTF-8/Compose

See also:
http://www.x.org/archive/X11R7.5/doc/man/man5/Compose.5.html

Changed in ibus (Ubuntu):
status: In Progress → Fix Released
Changed in language-selector (Ubuntu):
status: In Progress → Fix Committed
no longer affects: ibus
Revision history for this message
Raphael das Neves Calvo (raphael-calvo) wrote :

Thanks to everyone and a special thanks to Gunnar who helped to put some order in our despair for this fix which seemed small but, as we all can see, was spreaded through several packages.

P.S.: the duplicated bugs could be closed as well.

Revision history for this message
Launchpad Janitor (janitor) wrote :

This bug was fixed in the package language-selector - 0.153

---------------
language-selector (0.153) xenial; urgency=medium

  * data/cedilla-portuguese.sh, setup.py:
    Make it easier for pt_PT users to type ccedilla (ç) in the same
    manner as it works for pt_BR users since version 0.142
    (LP: #518056).
  * debian/language-selector-common.maintscript:
    Renaming from cedilla-brazil.sh to cedilla-portuguese.sh.

 -- Gunnar Hjalmarsson <email address hidden> Tue, 29 Dec 2015 12:59:00 +0100

Changed in language-selector (Ubuntu):
status: Fix Committed → Fix Released
Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

Thanks, Raphael.

On 2015-12-29 14:35, Raphael das Neves Calvo wrote:
> P.S.: the duplicated bugs could be closed as well.

For just the reason those bugs are marked as duplicates, there is no need to update their statuses. So I think we are done now. :)

Revision history for this message
anacaona (anacaona) wrote :

Hello, I am using US International with dead keys on Ubuntu 15.10, and I am using it to write in French (but I prefer my OS is English) This issue is still open for me. I would very much appreciate any suggestions toward a resolution.

Many thanks in advance,
Nadine

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

@anacaona: Even if this issue has been handled with Portugese users in mind at first hand, the description in comment #157 is applicable to any language. In your case I suppose that editing the ~/.profile file is the way to go.

However, comment #157 refers to how it will work in Ubuntu 16.04. In 15.10, in addition to the proposed line in ~/.profile, you'll need to also open Language Support and change the input method system to "none".

Revision history for this message
TC (smalltimer) wrote :

Hi, the answer is simple. This layout treats the cedilla as an accent, and it is available with AltGr+= :D

Using this you can use the cedilla wherever you want - Ç ç ş Ş ţ Ţ and so forth.

Revision history for this message
anacaona (anacaona) wrote : Re: [Bug 518056] Re: cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c

Wow, thanks. Got my ç back after what feels like a decade! Though AltGr
doesn't combine - it directly prints a ç. I personally don't need the other
characters with cedillas but am still curious as to what the quirk is.

Thank you again,
Nadine
On Feb 1, 2016 7:56 PM, "TC" <email address hidden> wrote:

> Hi, the answer is simple. This layout treats the cedilla as an accent,
> and it is available with AltGr+= :D
>
> Using this you can use the cedilla wherever you want - Ç ç ş Ş ţ Ţ and
> so forth.
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/518056
>
> Title:
> cedilla appears as accented c (ć instead of ç) when typing 'c
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/518056/+subscriptions
>

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

I have installed Mint 18.2 now, and the problem seems to be back.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

That is, choosing the regional settings as "portuguese, Brazil, UTF-8" does not result in the correct behavior of the '+c combination anymore.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

The workaround described in comment #115 does not work either (generating and exporting the LC_CTYPE=pt_BR.UTF-8)

I think that we need to face the fact that the only definitive solution is to have a keyboard layout that displays the desired behavior independently on the other non-correlated choices of the environmental variables.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Adding

export XCOMPOSEFILE=/usr/share/X11/locale/pt_BR.UTF-8/Compose

to ~/.profile and restarting didn't do the trick either.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

My locale was incorrect, although I never changed it manually.

Adding:

export LANG=pt_BR.UTF-8

to ~/.profile

restored the correct behavior. Where should this be reported now?

Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

@Leandro: Let's talk here to begin with.

Linux Mint is not Ubuntu. The file which should make it sufficient to set pt_BR.UTF-8 or pt_PT.UTF-8 as the regional formats locale is:

/etc/profile.d/cedilla-portuguese.sh

(belonging to the language-selector-common package)

Is that file present on Mint?

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Hi Gunnar,

thank you very much for your prompt feedback.

No, that file is not present in Mint.

Leandro.

Revision history for this message
Felipe Figueiredo (philsf) wrote :

This is a duplicate of bug #228077 (which was reported some two years before this one).

This one, however, draw much more attention than the first one, and has some attempts on patches. For these reasons I am marking #228077 (and its other dups) as duplicate of this one.

Revision history for this message
Felipe Figueiredo (philsf) wrote :

Please see bug #228077 for information on the report upstream rejected for gnome-control-center.

Leandro, I don't have a US keyboard anymore (nor did a read all the comments here), but if this is still an issue, I don't think a fix will appear anytime soon.

Good luck on this.

Revision history for this message
Leandro (leandromartinez98) wrote :

Hi Felipe,

Thanks for the feedback. This issue has been kind of solved by Gunnar for ubuntu, for given selections of locales (comment #115).

The issue is that now I installed Mint, and realized that the fixes are not spread to other ubuntu based distributions.

I still do not understand how can we have hundreds of different keyboard layouts to choose from, at the same time being impossible to create a new one with this choice.

The specific issue of the 'c=ç is probably less popular now because most computers sold in Brazil have now the brazilian keyboard layout, and that is fine. As a programmer, I suffer with the fact that "/" and "?" are Alt-Gr dead keys in this layout, and I keep using the US one, but for most people the fact that these keys are in such inconvenient positions probably doesn't matter.

Leandro.

Revision history for this message
Geraldo Magella (geraldomagella) wrote :

Hello Everyone. I've been following this thread and tried every fix here to no avail.
I live in Canada and I want to keep my Ubuntu in English, with Canadian Locale because most of the time I'll be writing in english and working regularly with Canadian (very similar to us) locale, I guess... but when I'm relaxing Talking to family or friends in Brasil, I'll need accents like áéíúú and the f'ing ç.

Right now the closest I've come was having 2 "entry methods" that I switch back and forth.
1) English (Canada) for when I'm writing in english and
2) English (US, International with DeadKeys) for when I want to write Portuguese-BR.

Here is what I've done so far

My Ubuntu version to begin with:

geraldo@geraldubuntu:~$ uname -v
#44~16.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Thu Nov 9 15:37:44 UTC 2017

Language support: English (Canada)
Keyboard input method (None) (had tried with iBus) no difference.
Those two keyboards layout as mentioned.

Two changes in ~/.profile (Comment #115 and other):

geraldo@geraldubuntu:~$ cat ~/.profile | grep export
export LC_CTYPE=pt_BR.UTF-8
export XCOMPOSEFILE=/usr/share/X11/locale/pt_BR.UTF-8/Compose

Here is how my locale look like, so I know comment #115 is set properly:

geraldo@geraldubuntu:~$ locale
LANG=en_CA.UTF-8
LANGUAGE=en_CA:en
LC_CTYPE=pt_BR.UTF-8
LC_NUMERIC="en_CA.UTF-8"
LC_TIME="en_CA.UTF-8"
LC_COLLATE="en_CA.UTF-8"
LC_MONETARY="en_CA.UTF-8"
LC_MESSAGES="en_CA.UTF-8"
LC_PAPER="en_CA.UTF-8"
LC_NAME="en_CA.UTF-8"
LC_ADDRESS="en_CA.UTF-8"
LC_TELEPHONE="en_CA.UTF-8"
LC_MEASUREMENT="en_CA.UTF-8"
LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_CA.UTF-8"
LC_ALL=

Also tried edditing other files... please note:

geraldo@geraldubuntu:~$ cat /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules.cache | grep cedilla
"/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-cedilla.so"
"cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa:en"
geraldo@geraldubuntu:~$ cat /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules.cache | grep cedilla
"/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/im-cedilla.so"
"cedilla" "Cedilla" "gtk30" "/usr/share/locale" "az:ca:co:fr:gv:oc:pt:sq:tr:wa:en"

And I'm still getting ć.

Any tips for me? This is frustrating :/

Thank you for your time.

Revision history for this message
Bruno Afonso Moulin (brunomoulin) wrote :
Revision history for this message
Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) wrote :

@Geraldo: When seeing your comment #175, I can't help thinking of bug #1573755. It's a subtle issue, and to check if that is what you have, you can either enter a guest session or create a new test user.

Otherwise, one observation I have made is that Wayland (enabled by default in Ubuntu 17.10, but won't be in Ubuntu 18.04) makes this more difficult. So logging in to Xorg sessions is safer so far in this respect.

To post a comment you must log in.
This report contains Public information  
Everyone can see this information.

Other bug subscribers

Remote bug watches

Bug watches keep track of this bug in other bug trackers.