[lucid] downgrade to stable 2.10

[Martin Pitt]

Binary package hint: gthumb

2.11 is an experimental development line, which introduces lots of crashes and dropped features. For lucid LTS we ought to go back to 2.10.

[mjc (mjc-avtechpulse)]

What crashes is 2.11 introducing? 2.11.2.1 is not particularly crash prone.

It is currently missing the web album exporter, however.

2.10.x is not being maintained at all.

- Mike

[Martin Pitt (pitti)]

Martin-Eric, you had the biggest concerns with that yesterday, can you elaborate? Thanks!

[Martin Pitt (pitti)]

I just tried importing from my gphoto camera. 2.11 showed quite a lot of bugs and regression slike

  - it doesn't allow you to select a target folder straight away any more
  - switching off the camera doesn't remove the device from gphoto
  - multiple selection with shift is broken (it doesnt select all files in between, but something like cell-wise)
  - drag&drop is completely broken (it unselects all files but one, and dropping to a different folder does not work at all)
  - when re-enabling thumbnails, they do not appear, you have to switch folders back and forth

I did not experience any crashes, though (although Launchpad got quite a few ones)

[mjc (mjc-avtechpulse)]

1. The import folder is specified in the Preferences button of the import dialog. "Not a bug" :-)

2. Camera off - not sure about that. Please file a bug upstream.

3. Multiple select - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=610419. I'm not sure if/how that will be resolved.

4. Drag to folders - not implemented yet - should be - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=593431

5. Re-enable thumbnails - fixed in git, will be in > 2.11.2.1.

Anyway, I'm not sure what criteria Ubuntu uses for LTS packages, but do keep in mind that 2.10.x is totally dead upstream and no fixes are being released. 2.11.x is being actively developed and maintained. Just so you know.

- Mike

[Martin-Éric Racine (q-funk)]

1. Destination folder preferences are a real mess. As much as I tried fiddling with the preferences, I could not reproduce the folder naming logic of 2.10. Anyhow, preferences should be found under the Preferences menu, not hidden somewhere else.

2. I've noticed this too.

3. I've noticed this too.

4. Used to work in 2.10 and as it's now broken, it's a regression.

5. "Fixed in GIT" nonetheless means that it won't make it on time for this LTS; not an acceptable solution.

To the above, I would have to add:

6. Picture editing functions are completely gone.

7. Operation is bloody sluggish and slow, compared to 2.10.

The selection criteria for an LTS (long-term support) distribution release are maturity and rock-solid operation of a piece of software. As old and unmaintained as 2.10 might be, it fits those criteria of predictable, well-established and rock-solid performance that we want. Right now, 2.11 doesn't, because it reinvents the wheel on too many aspects of core functionalities and because it's in a constant state of rework. This doesn't match the criteria of long-term usability we need for an LTS.

[mjc (mjc-avtechpulse)]

OK, it sounds like 2.10.x is what you need for LTS then.

On a side note, the picture editing functions are NOT gone in 2.11.2.1:

1. Enable "Image Tools" in the Edit>Extensions dialog, if not already enabled.

2. When you open an image, click on the palette icon in the upper left ("Edit file" tooltip) to show the edit functions. Lots of edit functions!

If you find bugs, please report them upstream. The camera power-off issue is not reported upstream.

- Mike

[Martin-Éric Racine (q-funk)]

Expecting someone to go back and enable what used to be there by default is generally not a good strategy, neither is fragmenting existing functions into plug-ins. By all means, do add the ability to make plug-ins if you like, but fragmenting features and moving them around just for the sake of trying new ideas is counter-productive because it produces unpleasant surprises for the user.

[mjc (mjc-avtechpulse)]

Was that plug-in not enabled by default for you? It is supposed to be.

The entire codebase has been re-written. Most features are now implemented as plug-ins. Most are supposed to be enabled by default.

Change happens!

- Mike

[Martin Pitt (pitti)]

Hello Michael,

thanks for following up. So it seems that at least you do _not_
consider 2.11 an experimental development snapshot which you wouldn't
like to see shipped?

Michael Chudobiak [2010-03-24 13:47 -0000]:
> 1. The import folder is specified in the Preferences button of the
> import dialog. "Not a bug" :-)

Ah, I guess it's a different philosophy now. Until 2.10, gthumb did
(for me, anyway) exactly the right thing and did not try to own my
photos. I create a subfolder for each event and label the directory
accordingly, so that I can copy them around conveniently, have them
browsable on my server, and be able to view them without the help of a
separate database file. F-Spot and Shotwell fail utterly in that
regard, since they stash away imported photos in an unmanageable
internal hierarchy. Thus for me the destination directory isn't a
preference, but something that I set each time I import photos.

But I guess its a design decision how gthumb should treat photo
folders and import. But of course it's your prerogative how to handle
that. I guess I can resort back to drag&drop in nautilus, and do not
use a photo manager at all then.

> 2. Camera off - not sure about that. Please file a bug upstream.

Done, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=613875

> 3. Multiple select - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=610419.
> I'm not sure if/how that will be resolved.
>
> 4. Drag to folders - not implemented yet - should be -
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=593431

Thanks for the references.

> 5. Re-enable thumbnails - fixed in git, will be in > 2.11.2.1.

Wrt. thumbnails I also found that the import dialog does not have any
thumbnails at all. That's a pretty big showstopper, since you have no
way to select which pictures you are interested in. Filed as

  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=613876

> Anyway, I'm not sure what criteria Ubuntu uses for LTS packages, but
> do keep in mind that 2.10.x is totally dead upstream and no fixes
> are being released. 2.11.x is being actively developed and
> maintained. Just so you know.

Thanks. It's not a trivial decision indeed, but it seems to me that
2.11 still needs some time to bake until it caught up with 2.10's
stability and workflow. (While I was collecting debug info for the
two bugs I just filed I had gthumb crash on me, too :( ).

2.10 was rock solid and "just worked". I was told that the gvfs-umount
call was broken, but fixing that should be trivial.

Thank you!

Martin
--
Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de
Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org)

[mjc (mjc-avtechpulse)]

Martin,

The 2.11.x codebase has been quite good (i.e., reasonably crash-free), so I think the bleeding-edge distros should ship it. (LTS is not bleeding edge, of course.)

I'm not that happy with the import dialog either. I would like the destination settings to be in the main import dialog. However, the main developer, Paolo, doesn't share that view. (You can offer your views on the gthumb mailing list.) The good news is that gThumb still does not "own" your photos like f-spot.

The import dialog does have an "event" field. This can be used with the custom folder option to automatically create a destination folder with that name (or a combination of the name and date, like "/home/bill/2010-01-01_wedding"). It is not properly documented at the moment.

- Mike

[Martin Pitt (pitti)]

Michael Chudobiak [2010-03-25 10:08 -0000]:
> The import dialog does have an "event" field. This can be used with the
> custom folder option to automatically create a destination folder with
> that name (or a combination of the name and date, like
> "/home/bill/2010-01-01_wedding"). It is not properly documented at the
> moment.

Ah, thanks. I did have something in the "event" field, but it wasn't
used as a subdirectory, just as categorization in the db. But I didn't
change anythign looking like "custom folder" yet, I guess that was the
problem. Nice to see that it's (meant to, anyway) working!

Martin

[Martin Pitt (pitti)]

Two of the four bugs have already been fixed in upstream git, and the others got great responses, so I don't think it's still a release blocker.

[Matthias Hawran (jahwork)]

Michael Chudobiak wrote on 2010-03-25:
> The import dialog does have an "event" field. This can be used with
> the custom folder option to automatically create a destination folder
> with that name (or a combination of the name and date, like "/home/
> bill/2010-01-01_wedding"). It is not properly documented at the
> moment.

Hey nobody told me about this one ! :-)
And it works well, just use the %E code.
Some bug reports are asking this since years, got to close them :-)
Gotta document that somewhere...

[Martin-Éric Racine (q-funk)]

Nice to hear that some issues have been resolved in upstream GIT. Should a new tarball be released then? We're running out of time to decide on whether to stick with 2.11 or revert to 2.10 for Lucid.

[Martin-Éric Racine (q-funk)]

It would be desirable to document what usage the Event and Tags fields have. Right now, I was under the assumption that they could be used e.g. as a variable to affect part of the folder name but, seeing the above, it appears that it only affects the catalog feature's own keyword database. Personally, I don't like the fact that every import is automatically added to the catalog, because it slows down operation significantly. Also, it's a pretty useless feature if/when someone has to move folders or individual pictures around, because the catalog then loses track of the files.

Also, as I noticed, the file and folder rename feature is broken. It retains part of the original filename, even if it was partially replaced. Sometimes, it also simply refuses to let me rename a folder.

For those migrating from older releases, the import feature should have an option called something like "use the old gThumb folder naming convention" that can be checked. Alternately, an exact combination of variables should be documented in the Yelp manual for gThumb to enable users to program the custom folder into delivering exactly the same folder naming that was used until 2.10.

[William Shotts (bshotts)]

In version 2.11.2.1 (Lucid) the keyboard shortcuts for image rotation in fullscreen mode (e, r, m) are not working. I agree that this version is very slow compared to past versions especially when loading large images and viewing directories containing large numbers (> 4000) of images.

[William Shotts (bshotts)]

Also the Help menu lacks a "Report a Problem..." entry.

[Launchpad Janitor (janitor)]

This bug was fixed in the package gthumb - 3:2.11.2.1.is.2.10.11-0ubuntu1

---------------
gthumb (3:2.11.2.1.is.2.10.11-0ubuntu1) lucid; urgency=low

  * Revert to 2.10.11. It appears that 2.11.x series is not stable enough for
    an LTS with too many big changes. The new workflow isn't documented
    enough as well. (LP: #545871)
 -- Didier Roche <email address hidden> Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:22:58 +0200

[Dmitry Tantsur (divius)]

BTW, I've packaged 2.11.3, maybe somebody test it?

https://launchpad.net/~divius/+archive/ppa