2022-04-13 21:08:29 |
Marcos Alano |
bug |
|
|
added bug |
2022-04-14 01:52:43 |
Daniel van Vugt |
tags |
|
hybrid jammy nvidia |
|
2022-04-14 01:53:39 |
Daniel van Vugt |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Daniel van Vugt |
2022-04-14 01:53:42 |
Daniel van Vugt |
gdm3 (Ubuntu): importance |
Undecided |
Medium |
|
2022-04-14 11:59:55 |
Marcos Alano |
attachment added |
|
Screenshot from 2022-04-14 08-58-44.png https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1968929/+attachment/5580728/+files/Screenshot%20from%202022-04-14%2008-58-44.png |
|
2022-04-14 12:02:11 |
Marcos Alano |
attachment added |
|
Screenshot from 2022-04-14 09-01-14.png https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1968929/+attachment/5580729/+files/Screenshot%20from%202022-04-14%2009-01-14.png |
|
2022-04-14 18:33:23 |
Jeremy Bícha |
marked as duplicate |
|
1968809 |
|
2022-04-15 13:59:43 |
Marcos Alano |
attachment added |
|
Screenshot from 2022-04-15 10-14-35.png https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1968929/+attachment/5580957/+files/Screenshot%20from%202022-04-15%2010-14-35.png |
|
2022-04-15 14:00:31 |
Marcos Alano |
attachment added |
|
Screenshot from 2022-04-15 10-08-31.png https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1968929/+attachment/5580958/+files/Screenshot%20from%202022-04-15%2010-08-31.png |
|
2022-04-15 14:02:02 |
Marcos Alano |
removed duplicate marker |
1968809 |
|
|
2022-04-15 14:58:02 |
Jeremy Bícha |
gdm3 (Ubuntu): status |
New |
Triaged |
|
2022-04-15 14:58:32 |
Jeremy Bícha |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Jeremy Bicha |
2022-04-15 18:53:30 |
jan.t.neurer |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Neurer |
2022-04-15 21:55:55 |
Christian |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Christian |
2022-04-16 01:27:34 |
Jeremy Bícha |
bug task added |
|
oem-priority |
|
2022-04-16 01:27:55 |
Jeremy Bícha |
oem-priority: importance |
Undecided |
Critical |
|
2022-04-16 01:29:15 |
Yuan-Chen Cheng |
tags |
hybrid jammy nvidia |
hybrid jammy nvidia oem-priority |
|
2022-04-17 05:59:35 |
Devesh Parekh |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Devesh Parekh |
2022-04-17 08:44:13 |
Robin Sheat |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Robin Sheat |
2022-04-18 07:08:48 |
amano |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber amano |
2022-04-18 19:20:15 |
coolhandlewk |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber coolhandlewk |
2022-04-19 06:04:23 |
Daniel van Vugt |
gdm3 (Ubuntu): importance |
Medium |
High |
|
2022-04-19 06:04:29 |
Daniel van Vugt |
gdm3 (Ubuntu): milestone |
|
ubuntu-22.04 |
|
2022-04-19 06:04:48 |
Daniel van Vugt |
gdm3 (Ubuntu): assignee |
|
Jeremy Bicha (jbicha) |
|
2022-04-19 07:58:15 |
Daniel van Vugt |
summary |
No Wayland support on my NVIDA laptop |
No Wayland support on NVIDIA systems |
|
2022-04-19 09:24:25 |
DSHR |
information type |
Public |
Public Security |
|
2022-04-19 11:04:07 |
Jeremy Bícha |
information type |
Public Security |
Public |
|
2022-04-19 11:27:27 |
Marcos Alano |
attachment added |
|
Corrupted screen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1968929/+attachment/5581433/+files/Screenshot%20from%202022-04-19%2008-21-28.png |
|
2022-04-19 13:26:49 |
Jeremy Bícha |
description |
I'm using Ubuntu 22.04 on a Dell G15 5511 laptop that have an NVIDIA 3060 GPU. I saw in the last update in the gdm3 package that Wayland will be disabled in machines with hybrid graphics.
The question is: In this laptop I can enable optimus to use Intel and sometimes NVIDIA or keep only on NVIDIA (I use this option). So even it's detected two GPUs the Intel one is unused.
I think the problem could extend for people with a desktop with an integrated intel GPU and a discrete NVIDIA GPU, since both will be present in the system.
So maybe will be necessary to check with more accuracy to check if there are two GPUs, but only one is being used or have a documented option to force the enablement of Wayland. |
Desired Functionality
---------------------
Systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should have an option to use Wayland but Xorg should be the default.
Hybrid systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should use Wayland by default.
Impact
------
Test Case
---------
Create a new user (since existing users can choose their own session).
Restart your system after applying the update.
Select your name on the login screen.
A gear button should appear in the lower right of the screen.
Click the gear button. Ubuntu should be selected unless you are using a system with only an Nvidia graphics card where Ubuntu on Xorg should be selected.
Remaining concerns
-----------------
Upgrades may still use Wayland?
There are some suspend & resume issues with Wayland for Nvidia graphics drivers in Ubuntu.
Original Bug Report
-------------------
I'm using Ubuntu 22.04 on a Dell G15 5511 laptop that have an NVIDIA 3060 GPU. I saw in the last update in the gdm3 package that Wayland will be disabled in machines with hybrid graphics.
The question is: In this laptop I can enable optimus to use Intel and sometimes NVIDIA or keep only on NVIDIA (I use this option). So even it's detected two GPUs the Intel one is unused.
I think the problem could extend for people with a desktop with an integrated intel GPU and a discrete NVIDIA GPU, since both will be present in the system.
So maybe will be necessary to check with more accuracy to check if there are two GPUs, but only one is being used or have a documented option to force the enablement of Wayland. |
|
2022-04-19 14:00:12 |
Ubuntu QA Website |
tags |
hybrid jammy nvidia oem-priority |
hybrid iso-testing jammy nvidia oem-priority |
|
2022-04-19 20:11:34 |
René Walendy |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber René Walendy |
2022-04-20 05:22:25 |
Daniel van Vugt |
gdm3 (Ubuntu): assignee |
Jeremy Bicha (jbicha) |
|
|
2022-04-20 05:22:27 |
Daniel van Vugt |
gdm3 (Ubuntu): status |
Triaged |
In Progress |
|
2022-04-20 05:23:36 |
Daniel van Vugt |
summary |
No Wayland support on NVIDIA systems |
Missing Wayland login option on NVIDIA systems |
|
2022-04-20 15:00:06 |
coolhandlewk |
removed subscriber coolhandlewk |
|
|
|
2022-04-21 10:36:50 |
Jeremy Bícha |
nominated for series |
|
Ubuntu Jammy |
|
2022-04-21 10:36:50 |
Jeremy Bícha |
bug task added |
|
gdm3 (Ubuntu Jammy) |
|
2022-04-21 10:36:59 |
Jeremy Bícha |
gdm3 (Ubuntu Jammy): assignee |
|
Jeremy Bicha (jbicha) |
|
2022-04-21 10:44:40 |
Jeremy Bícha |
description |
Desired Functionality
---------------------
Systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should have an option to use Wayland but Xorg should be the default.
Hybrid systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should use Wayland by default.
Impact
------
Test Case
---------
Create a new user (since existing users can choose their own session).
Restart your system after applying the update.
Select your name on the login screen.
A gear button should appear in the lower right of the screen.
Click the gear button. Ubuntu should be selected unless you are using a system with only an Nvidia graphics card where Ubuntu on Xorg should be selected.
Remaining concerns
-----------------
Upgrades may still use Wayland?
There are some suspend & resume issues with Wayland for Nvidia graphics drivers in Ubuntu.
Original Bug Report
-------------------
I'm using Ubuntu 22.04 on a Dell G15 5511 laptop that have an NVIDIA 3060 GPU. I saw in the last update in the gdm3 package that Wayland will be disabled in machines with hybrid graphics.
The question is: In this laptop I can enable optimus to use Intel and sometimes NVIDIA or keep only on NVIDIA (I use this option). So even it's detected two GPUs the Intel one is unused.
I think the problem could extend for people with a desktop with an integrated intel GPU and a discrete NVIDIA GPU, since both will be present in the system.
So maybe will be necessary to check with more accuracy to check if there are two GPUs, but only one is being used or have a documented option to force the enablement of Wayland. |
Impact
---------------------
Systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should have an option to use Wayland but Xorg should be the default.
Hybrid systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should use Wayland by default.
Test Case
---------
Create a new user (since existing users can choose their own session).
Restart your system after applying the update.
Select your name on the login screen.
A gear button should appear in the lower right of the screen.
Click the gear button. Ubuntu should be selected.
If you are using a system with only an Nvidia graphics card (so your system is not a hybrid), there should be an Ubuntu on Wayland option.
Otherwise, there should be an Ubuntu on Xorg option.
What Could Go Wrong
-------------------
Hybrid systems should actually be using the Intel graphics for to run GNOME Shell so that's why it should be safe to use Wayland by default.
There are some suspend & resume issues, an issue with gsync, etc. which is why Nvidia are requesting that we don't enable Wayland by default for systems that are only using the Nvidia graphics driver. We do still make it available in case someone really wants to try without needing to edit system files.
Before last week, we were actually using Wayland by default for Nvidia systems so this upload returns most systems back to that status quo.
Priority
--------
This is a high priority for the Desktop and OEM Teams and it's requested that this update be available as soon as possible after release.
The desktop live session defaults to Xorg not Wayland so this doesn't impact that session at all. We are not going to delay the release to get this fix on the Ubuntu 22.04 desktop ISO.
Original Bug Report
-------------------
I'm using Ubuntu 22.04 on a Dell G15 5511 laptop that have an NVIDIA 3060 GPU. I saw in the last update in the gdm3 package that Wayland will be disabled in machines with hybrid graphics.
The question is: In this laptop I can enable optimus to use Intel and sometimes NVIDIA or keep only on NVIDIA (I use this option). So even it's detected two GPUs the Intel one is unused.
I think the problem could extend for people with a desktop with an integrated intel GPU and a discrete NVIDIA GPU, since both will be present in the system.
So maybe will be necessary to check with more accuracy to check if there are two GPUs, but only one is being used or have a documented option to force the enablement of Wayland. |
|
2022-04-21 12:15:02 |
Peter Husen |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Peter Husen |
2022-04-21 16:19:25 |
Tom |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Tom |
2022-04-21 19:33:57 |
Vladyslav Diachuk |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Vladyslav Diachuk |
2022-04-21 19:44:26 |
Michael Rauter |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Michael Rauter |
2022-04-21 20:00:40 |
solax |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber solax |
2022-04-21 20:15:15 |
Pietro Mingo |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Pietro Mingo |
2022-04-21 23:46:14 |
KairanD |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber KairanD |
2022-04-22 01:52:45 |
Daniel van Vugt |
gdm3 (Ubuntu Jammy): milestone |
ubuntu-22.04 |
jammy-updates |
|
2022-04-22 04:56:52 |
Daniel van Vugt |
gdm3 (Ubuntu Jammy): assignee |
Jeremy Bicha (jbicha) |
Alberto Milone (albertomilone) |
|
2022-04-22 06:43:49 |
Amardhruva |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Amardhruva |
2022-04-22 07:03:09 |
hujq |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber hujq |
2022-04-22 07:21:34 |
Daniel van Vugt |
gdm3 (Ubuntu Jammy): status |
In Progress |
Fix Committed |
|
2022-04-22 08:26:00 |
Rob Parker |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Rob Parker |
2022-04-22 16:10:27 |
Jeremy Bícha |
gdm3 (Ubuntu Jammy): status |
Fix Committed |
In Progress |
|
2022-04-22 16:20:58 |
Jeremy Bícha |
description |
Impact
---------------------
Systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should have an option to use Wayland but Xorg should be the default.
Hybrid systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should use Wayland by default.
Test Case
---------
Create a new user (since existing users can choose their own session).
Restart your system after applying the update.
Select your name on the login screen.
A gear button should appear in the lower right of the screen.
Click the gear button. Ubuntu should be selected.
If you are using a system with only an Nvidia graphics card (so your system is not a hybrid), there should be an Ubuntu on Wayland option.
Otherwise, there should be an Ubuntu on Xorg option.
What Could Go Wrong
-------------------
Hybrid systems should actually be using the Intel graphics for to run GNOME Shell so that's why it should be safe to use Wayland by default.
There are some suspend & resume issues, an issue with gsync, etc. which is why Nvidia are requesting that we don't enable Wayland by default for systems that are only using the Nvidia graphics driver. We do still make it available in case someone really wants to try without needing to edit system files.
Before last week, we were actually using Wayland by default for Nvidia systems so this upload returns most systems back to that status quo.
Priority
--------
This is a high priority for the Desktop and OEM Teams and it's requested that this update be available as soon as possible after release.
The desktop live session defaults to Xorg not Wayland so this doesn't impact that session at all. We are not going to delay the release to get this fix on the Ubuntu 22.04 desktop ISO.
Original Bug Report
-------------------
I'm using Ubuntu 22.04 on a Dell G15 5511 laptop that have an NVIDIA 3060 GPU. I saw in the last update in the gdm3 package that Wayland will be disabled in machines with hybrid graphics.
The question is: In this laptop I can enable optimus to use Intel and sometimes NVIDIA or keep only on NVIDIA (I use this option). So even it's detected two GPUs the Intel one is unused.
I think the problem could extend for people with a desktop with an integrated intel GPU and a discrete NVIDIA GPU, since both will be present in the system.
So maybe will be necessary to check with more accuracy to check if there are two GPUs, but only one is being used or have a documented option to force the enablement of Wayland. |
Impact
---------------------
Systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should have an option to use Wayland but Xorg should be the default.
Hybrid systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should use Wayland by default.
Test Case 1
-----------
Create a new user (since existing users can choose their own session).
Restart your system after applying the update.
Select your name on the login screen.
A gear button should appear in the lower right of the screen.
Click the gear button. Ubuntu should be selected.
If you are using a system with only an Nvidia graphics card (so your system is not a hybrid), there should be an Ubuntu on Wayland option.
Otherwise, there should be an Ubuntu on Xorg option.
Test Case 2
-----------
Also verify that the behavior stays the same for systems that don't have Nvidia graphics.
For instance, an Intel-only system should still default to the Ubuntu session with a Ubuntu on Xorg option in the gear menu on the login screen.
What Could Go Wrong
-------------------
Hybrid systems should actually be using the Intel graphics for to run GNOME Shell so that's why it should be safe to use Wayland by default.
There are some suspend & resume issues, an issue with gsync, etc. which is why Nvidia are requesting that we don't enable Wayland by default for systems that are only using the Nvidia graphics driver. We do still make it available in case someone really wants to try without needing to edit system files.
Before last week, we were actually using Wayland by default for Nvidia systems so this upload returns most systems back to that status quo.
Priority
--------
This is a high priority for the Desktop and OEM Teams and it's requested that this update be available as soon as possible after release.
The desktop live session defaults to Xorg not Wayland so this doesn't impact that session at all. We are not going to delay the release to get this fix on the Ubuntu 22.04 desktop ISO.
Original Bug Report
-------------------
I'm using Ubuntu 22.04 on a Dell G15 5511 laptop that have an NVIDIA 3060 GPU. I saw in the last update in the gdm3 package that Wayland will be disabled in machines with hybrid graphics.
The question is: In this laptop I can enable optimus to use Intel and sometimes NVIDIA or keep only on NVIDIA (I use this option). So even it's detected two GPUs the Intel one is unused.
I think the problem could extend for people with a desktop with an integrated intel GPU and a discrete NVIDIA GPU, since both will be present in the system.
So maybe will be necessary to check with more accuracy to check if there are two GPUs, but only one is being used or have a documented option to force the enablement of Wayland. |
|
2022-04-22 16:23:21 |
Jeremy Bícha |
description |
Impact
---------------------
Systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should have an option to use Wayland but Xorg should be the default.
Hybrid systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should use Wayland by default.
Test Case 1
-----------
Create a new user (since existing users can choose their own session).
Restart your system after applying the update.
Select your name on the login screen.
A gear button should appear in the lower right of the screen.
Click the gear button. Ubuntu should be selected.
If you are using a system with only an Nvidia graphics card (so your system is not a hybrid), there should be an Ubuntu on Wayland option.
Otherwise, there should be an Ubuntu on Xorg option.
Test Case 2
-----------
Also verify that the behavior stays the same for systems that don't have Nvidia graphics.
For instance, an Intel-only system should still default to the Ubuntu session with a Ubuntu on Xorg option in the gear menu on the login screen.
What Could Go Wrong
-------------------
Hybrid systems should actually be using the Intel graphics for to run GNOME Shell so that's why it should be safe to use Wayland by default.
There are some suspend & resume issues, an issue with gsync, etc. which is why Nvidia are requesting that we don't enable Wayland by default for systems that are only using the Nvidia graphics driver. We do still make it available in case someone really wants to try without needing to edit system files.
Before last week, we were actually using Wayland by default for Nvidia systems so this upload returns most systems back to that status quo.
Priority
--------
This is a high priority for the Desktop and OEM Teams and it's requested that this update be available as soon as possible after release.
The desktop live session defaults to Xorg not Wayland so this doesn't impact that session at all. We are not going to delay the release to get this fix on the Ubuntu 22.04 desktop ISO.
Original Bug Report
-------------------
I'm using Ubuntu 22.04 on a Dell G15 5511 laptop that have an NVIDIA 3060 GPU. I saw in the last update in the gdm3 package that Wayland will be disabled in machines with hybrid graphics.
The question is: In this laptop I can enable optimus to use Intel and sometimes NVIDIA or keep only on NVIDIA (I use this option). So even it's detected two GPUs the Intel one is unused.
I think the problem could extend for people with a desktop with an integrated intel GPU and a discrete NVIDIA GPU, since both will be present in the system.
So maybe will be necessary to check with more accuracy to check if there are two GPUs, but only one is being used or have a documented option to force the enablement of Wayland. |
Impact
---------------------
Systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should have an option to use Wayland but Xorg should be the default.
Hybrid systems using Nvidia graphics drivers should use Wayland by default.
Test Case 1
-----------
Create a new user (since existing users can choose their own session).
Restart your system after applying the update.
Select your name on the login screen.
A gear button should appear in the lower right of the screen.
Click the gear button. Ubuntu should be selected.
If you are using a system with only an Nvidia graphics card (so your system is not a hybrid), there should be an Ubuntu on Wayland option.
Otherwise, there should be an Ubuntu on Xorg option.
Test Case 2
-----------
Also verify that the behavior stays the same for systems that don't have Nvidia graphics.
Create a new user (since existing users can choose their own session).
Restart your system after applying the update.
Select your name on the login screen.
A gear button should appear in the lower right of the screen.
Click the gear button. Ubuntu should be selected. There should also be an Ubuntu on Xorg option.
What Could Go Wrong
-------------------
Hybrid systems should actually be using the Intel graphics for to run GNOME Shell so that's why it should be safe to use Wayland by default.
There are some suspend & resume issues, an issue with gsync, etc. which is why Nvidia are requesting that we don't enable Wayland by default for systems that are only using the Nvidia graphics driver. We do still make it available in case someone really wants to try without needing to edit system files.
Before last week, we were actually using Wayland by default for Nvidia systems so this upload returns most systems back to that status quo.
Priority
--------
This is a high priority for the Desktop and OEM Teams and it's requested that this update be available as soon as possible after release.
The desktop live session defaults to Xorg not Wayland so this doesn't impact that session at all. We are not going to delay the release to get this fix on the Ubuntu 22.04 desktop ISO.
Original Bug Report
-------------------
I'm using Ubuntu 22.04 on a Dell G15 5511 laptop that have an NVIDIA 3060 GPU. I saw in the last update in the gdm3 package that Wayland will be disabled in machines with hybrid graphics.
The question is: In this laptop I can enable optimus to use Intel and sometimes NVIDIA or keep only on NVIDIA (I use this option). So even it's detected two GPUs the Intel one is unused.
I think the problem could extend for people with a desktop with an integrated intel GPU and a discrete NVIDIA GPU, since both will be present in the system.
So maybe will be necessary to check with more accuracy to check if there are two GPUs, but only one is being used or have a documented option to force the enablement of Wayland. |
|
2022-04-22 16:26:27 |
Steve Langasek |
gdm3 (Ubuntu Jammy): status |
In Progress |
Fix Committed |
|
2022-04-22 16:26:29 |
Steve Langasek |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Ubuntu Stable Release Updates Team |
2022-04-22 16:26:31 |
Steve Langasek |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber SRU Verification |
2022-04-22 16:26:42 |
Steve Langasek |
tags |
hybrid iso-testing jammy nvidia oem-priority |
hybrid iso-testing jammy nvidia oem-priority verification-needed verification-needed-jammy |
|
2022-04-23 05:46:11 |
Moshe Caspi |
tags |
hybrid iso-testing jammy nvidia oem-priority verification-needed verification-needed-jammy |
hybrid iso-testing jammy nvidia oem-priority verification-failed-jammy |
|
2022-04-23 08:51:24 |
Moshe Caspi |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Moshe Caspi |
2022-04-23 19:11:25 |
Michael Rauter |
removed subscriber Michael Rauter |
|
|
|
2022-04-23 19:27:19 |
Francesco |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Francesco |
2022-04-23 20:32:09 |
Jeremy Bícha |
tags |
hybrid iso-testing jammy nvidia oem-priority verification-failed-jammy |
hybrid iso-testing jammy nvidia oem-priority verification-done verification-done-jammy |
|
2022-04-23 22:24:42 |
Charles Calderon |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Charles Calderon |
2022-04-25 07:42:39 |
DuckDuckWhale |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber DuckDuckWhale |
2022-04-25 17:37:24 |
Launchpad Janitor |
gdm3 (Ubuntu Jammy): status |
Fix Committed |
Fix Released |
|
2022-04-25 17:37:29 |
Steve Langasek |
removed subscriber Ubuntu Stable Release Updates Team |
|
|
|
2022-04-25 21:01:37 |
DuckDuckWhale |
removed subscriber DuckDuckWhale |
|
|
|
2022-04-26 09:36:16 |
Daniel van Vugt |
tags |
hybrid iso-testing jammy nvidia oem-priority verification-done verification-done-jammy |
hybrid iso-testing jammy nvidia nvidia-wayland oem-priority verification-done verification-done-jammy |
|
2022-04-27 14:31:53 |
waffen |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber waffen |
2022-04-28 04:30:45 |
Daniel van Vugt |
bug watch added |
|
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/290 |
|
2022-04-29 00:14:16 |
Ari |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Ari |
2022-05-03 05:16:30 |
Jesse Johnson |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Jesse Johnson |
2022-05-03 09:28:38 |
Ralph Schmieder |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Ralph Schmieder |
2022-05-22 14:07:26 |
dreamcat4 |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber dreamcat4 |
2022-06-11 19:03:15 |
John McLovin |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber John McLovin |
2022-06-12 01:34:19 |
Yuan-Chen Cheng |
oem-priority: status |
New |
Fix Released |
|
2022-06-21 11:21:37 |
Peter Roelants |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Peter Roelants |
2022-07-05 10:15:26 |
Andrew Marshall |
bug |
|
|
added subscriber Andrew Marshall |