"The majority of users would use right-click." I don't disbelieve you,  
but do you have data that shows this? What about on netbooks? What  
about users of Ubuntu on Apple hardware (ignoring them because they  
are a minority is not prudent).

Please stay on topic. If you'd like to discuss update manager changes,  
seek those discussions in their apprpriate places. If you'd like to  
accuse me of lying about user testing, please email me directly, or  
contact my boss (~ivanka).

On July 22, 2009, at 5:01, Loïc Martin <email address hidden> wrote:

> David Siegel wrote:
>> Keep in mind that File Roller represents an entirely new interface  
>> for
>> users to learn. My mother and grandmother, for example, cannot figure
>> out how to extract compressed files in Ubuntu because File Roller  
>> is (1)
>> an unfamiliar interface and (2) expresses an unfamiliar concept of
>> looking "inside" a compressed file without extracting it.
>
> Thing is, they don't have to use the file File Roller interface to
> extract archives. They only do because they've been taught to only use
> one mouse button, and that's not what the majority of users are  
> taught.
> The majority of users would use the right mouse button, and if your
> mother and grandmother hadn't been badly taught by Mac OS, they'd have
> seen the "Extract" menu when right clicking on the archive.
>
>> Yes, we plan to user test this (this is the third time I have said
> so).
>
> What do you mean by "user test this"? If you plan to change the  
> default
> behavior on Ubuntu, and call that a "user-test", that's just as  
> empty a
> promise as what was offered when the new behaviour to notify updates  
> was
> proposed for Jaunty. So far, none of the people that vouched for it  
> came
> with any data to show it lead to people installing updates more often,
> and in my experience it's quite the contrary (the update manager  
> windows
> always open in the wrong virtual screen, or behind applications, and  
> the
> inexperienced users I see end up not installing even security updates,
> since they don't have the icon that tell them they should install  
> updates.
>
> If you do that, don't call it user testing. You'd modify Ubuntu to
> behave the way it works for you and the few users you know, while
> ignoring what others tell you, even when they're also inexperienced  
> users.
>
>> I don't merely believe that my mother and grandmother couldn't figure
>> out how to extract files, I know they cannot because I've tested  
>> it. My
>> mother and grandmother use Mac OS, where this is the default  
>> behavior.
>> You're right, my grandmother did not understand the idea of an  
>> archive,
>> but people have been sending them to her for years, and she has  
>> managed
>> to extract them successfully and get at the files inside them all  
>> along.
>> On Ubuntu, she utterly failed to extract the archive, as did my  
>> mother.
>> So, is Ubuntu "Linux for Human Beings (but not for mothers)"?
>
> Your mother and grandmother are hardly the kind of "inexperienced  
> users"
> you should take as a reference. They've been conditioned by Mac OS
>  to expect a certain behavior, and also to ignore the right button. If
> Mac OS users represented 90% of the userbase, that would be a valid
> input, but they don't. People that aren't experienced with computers
> (and especially not Mac OS) don't mind using the right mouse button,
> quite the contrary, since that's one of the first things they learn -
> right button is safe, left button can lead to unpredictable results.
>
>> Yes, Ubuntu will break "industry standards" when we've found a better
>> solution. Adhering to "industry standards" despite potentially better
>> solutions is a great way to inherit historical flaws and forfeit the
>> opportunity to be excellent.
>>
>> Of course feedback on this bug is valid user data, but it is very  
>> hard
>> to make decisions with all users in mind using information provided  
>> by
>> the most sophisticated and often forgiving users, which you  
>> represent.
>
> Nope. I'm talking with the feedback I have from my mother, my wife,  
> and
> my students, all inexperienced users. They aren't "forgiving" users,  
> and
> the concerns I've raised and seen raised in this bug report are valid,
> they're based on years dealing with computer-illiterate users.
>
> As for industry standards, I hope we're not going to side with those  
> set
> by an OS that has had to cope with a single mouse button for ages, and
> thus ended up having to use hacks like the one that's proposed in this
> bug report.
>
> Extracting on double click raises a lot of problems, even when we
> disregard the mess it would cause for users looking into multiple
> archives for a special file (a common activity I've seen with
> inexperienced users and experiences ones alike - actually more often
> with inexperienced users).
>
> Whatever you suggest we didn't try it, I did. I right mouse>extract  
> each
> time I was going to double click on an archive, and I can tell it  
> ain't
> pretty. And that's still nothing, because as a slightly experienced
> users I can deal with the root system getting filled without knowing  
> it.
> I know most users don't understand when it happens, and call me  
> because
> they eventually "got a virus" on their Linux install.
>
> -- 
> Have the file-roller automatically extract an archive on double click
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/389176
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