no "usability sane" way to reboot jaunty without mouse

[Martin Olsson]

In previous versions of Ubuntu it was possible to reboot using the System menu, but this is removed in jaunty. This change, in combination with the fact that the fast-user-switch-applet is not accessible using keyboard leaves the newbie user with poor accessibility.

I know I can start a terminal and type "sudo reboot now" but many users don't know this. Currently, there is no way for them to reboot the computer if:

* they booted live CD but laptop touchpad wasn't supported (I got one of these laptops actually, which is how I found out)
* they started it without a PS/2 mouse but the mouse isn't detected when it's plugged in (like USB mice) so they need to reboot using keyboard
* maybe they are just disabled in some way and can't use a mouse for some reason

My suggestion is to make it possible to access the fast-user-switch-applet using a keyboard by pressing ALT-F1 and the "right", "right", "right".

PS. I also think the Windows-button on the keyboard should open the Applications menu (same as ALT-F1).

[Kenneth Wimer (kwwii)]

Can't they press the power button, and tab through the gnome-session pop-up?

[Dick Thomas (xpd259-deactivatedaccount)]

i've also just found this .
I wasn't able to tab across to the fast-user switcher applet

also I personally think that shutdown / reboot etc should be under system
as that is where new user logic would say it should be not hidden away in a corner
under my name ..what has my name got to do with shutting down etc?

[Craig Huffstetler (xq)]

I myself think "Leave" functions, specially shutdown/reboot, etc., should be added back under the system menu as this is simple usability. I can not believe it was taken out.

It should not have to exist in a panel that users may or may not want in their panel. It is also an accessibility mistake if this panel is not accessible via keyboard.

Craig H.

[Marian Sigler (maix42)]

> My suggestion is to make it possible to access the fast-user-switch-applet using a keyboard by pressing ALT-F1 and the "right", "right", "right".
My suggestion is to move that shutdown and user stuff back to where it belongs. It's not even less clicks with that great new way oO.

And for those who want it in the panel there should be a fourth option to not show $username/Users/people icon. Then it would at least be smaller.

[Craig Huffstetler (xq)]

I agree with Marian's comment. I think this should be up to the user.

[Kent Borg (kentborg)]

Another vote for this being a mistake.

I have a notebook computer. This means:

 1. I have limited screen real estate.
 2. I seldom quit or logout, I nearly always suspend to RAM.

The menubar is *very* privileged territory. To require a special power button thingie up there, little as it is, is an imposition. Menus, on the other hand, are a very efficient use of space. Having a quit in the System menu is very clean choice. Unlike, say, looking at the time, quitting is a rare operation. It should not be a required always-there feature.

On a notebook having a battery state indication is valuable, and having it double as a menu for suspending works great. For those rare times I actually want to quit, a more general purpose menu is a perfect place to go.

Then again, I can't be trusted. I think button bars are stupid, too. (Why do people hate menus so much? They are compact and organized, and for frequent operations they can have nicely self-documenting keyboard equivalents. Why should infrequent operations get dedicated full-time screen space? Can this stupud idea finally go out of style?)

Thanks,

-kb, the quiet and unassuming Kent with no opinions.

P.S. Is there a way to hack this back in until it gets fixed?

[Josh Lee (jleedev)]

Kent Borg wrote:

> P.S. Is there a way to hack this back in until it gets fixed?

Just remove the user switcher applet? That puts the menu items back, so this is already up to the user. I think the point of the discussion is about (a) making the menu keyboard-accessible or (b) restoring the old default.

[Marian Sigler (maix42)]

Josh Lee: Thanks for the tip. But I don't know why you do as if that were obvious – I didn't think of something like that.

I don't think one must choose between the two things – per default they could both be there. Those who don't like the panel applet can remove it via its context menu, those who don't like the menu entries could remove them via Preferences / Main Menu (they would just have to show up there)
The problem is (now that I know that the menu items come back automatically): I didn't want to remove the applet since I thought I couldn't quit at all then. So there must either be some information that one can safely remove the applet (no idea where to put that) or both should be there, see above.

Marian Sigler

[Kent Borg (kentborg)]

Good news! If I remove the applet, the menu item will return.

Bad news: There is an old idea in user interface design, the "principle of least astonishment".

This automagic feature is a bad idea. If one is dismayed that the quit menu item is missing, why would one remove the only quit feature that seems available? It is like expecting the sleepy person who wants to go to bed but who is without a flashlight to pull his main circuit breaker. (OK, strained analogy, but I think you can get it.)

Yes, it is good to catch users with clever behavior, but don't get too clever. Present a clear circumstance.

Anyway, thanks for the tip.

-kb, the Kent who hasn't tried it yet.

[Craig Huffstetler (xq)]

Users do not expect such behavior to exist. I would not remove my only way to shutdown/logoff/etc. either.

And what if some users want both to exist? I think they should have the option. I think the name of the "Fast User Switcher Applet" says for itself its "purpose." We shouldn't dictate the "rules" to them for their menu systems.

Overall, I think it's poor user interface design and should be corrected.

[square (e-is-mcsquare)]

Agree with Kent and Craig.

Why something has to be either keyboard or mouse? I am loving Jaunty so far, except for this - and I fail to see any reason for such braindead behavior. It's good to at least have an option to add "Shutdown/logout/whatever" in my menu WITHOUT removing the applet.

I think most of the users use mouse AND a keyboard.

Hope this gets corrected soon.

Cheers!

[Rick Spencer (rick-rickspencer3)]

Ted -

If possible, could you please bind FUSA menu to a key in Karmic?

Thanks

[Paul Sladen (sladen)]

Ideally, hook the key binding that already opens the Applications/Places/System menus and just have FUSA being the "fourth" menu when cycling with left <- and right -> keys.

[Ted Gould (ted)]

On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 10:09 +0000, Rick Spencer wrote:
> If possible, could you please bind FUSA menu to a key in Karmic?

Sure.

On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 11:32 +0000, Paul Sladen wrote:
> Ideally, hook the key binding that already opens the
> Applications/Places/System menus and just have FUSA being the "fourth"
> menu when cycling with left <- and right -> keys.

No, not really. I think it should be that way but the panel doesn't
really have the intrastructure to be able to make widgets aware of one
another. IMHO this is failing of GNOME Panel.

[Paul Sladen (sladen)]

The solution, then, is to add the necessary hooks to gnome-panel, so that any panel-applet with a menu can be sanely (eg. volume control, nm-applet, ...) opened using the same keyboard sequence.

This is something that could benefit from proper fixing, as there are only so-many "special" keys and combinations available.

In this case it would actually be that FUSA would be cycled to the _left_ (wrapping around).

It's something that should most be taken upstream, as just looking along my panel there's a lot of user-interface inconsistency between applets; some highlight-themselves, some require a click, some pop-open a text-entry box, some just show a tooltip; and most of these also have a second action available via the right-click action.

[Ted Gould (ted)]

On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 04:23 +0000, Paul Sladen wrote:
> The solution, then, is to add the necessary hooks to gnome-panel, so
> that any panel-applet with a menu can be sanely (eg. volume control, nm-
> applet, ...) opened using the same keyboard sequence.
<snip>
> It's something that should most be taken upstream, as just looking along
> my panel there's a lot of user-interface inconsistency between applets;
> some highlight-themselves, some require a click, some pop-open a text-
> entry box, some just show a tooltip; and most of these also have a
> second action available via the right-click action.

Yes, it is an upstream problem. But upstream is no longer working on
gnome-panel as it's deprecated in the GNOME 3 time frame. They're
mostly bug fixing gnome-panel today. I'm sure they'd accept patches,
but it would be very hard to get people excited about fixing it.

[Christoph Korn (c-korn)]

FUSA has been replaced by indicator-session in karmic and it is still not accessible with Alt+F1 and right key.

[tgpraveen (tgpraveen89)]

any progress on this?
this is something that is really annoying from many points of view.
making the desktop un keyboard friendly is a bad thing.