[needs-packaging] - Adobe Flash 10.3.183.10 - as Flash 11 current breaks BBC iPlayer for NVIDIA ION-equipped netbooks

Reported by Alex Cockell on 2011-11-04
18
This bug affects 3 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
Ubuntu
Wishlist
Unassigned

Bug Description

With Flash 11 current version and package, Adobe stripped out all the experimental accelerated rendering support for NVIDIA ION and other NVIDIA chipsets. While Youtube will happily roll back to software accel for NVIDIA users, iPlayer won't. Results seen are....
Video compressed, then tries to expand... then freezes completely, then iPlayer will not play out video at all - but no issues with audio.

Effectively, iPlayer is completely unusable if on Intel Atom+NVIDIA equipment running Ubuntu 10.04 and Flash 11. This is a massive regression and dealbreaker for British Ubuntu users.

The BBC recently updated their playback client, relying on Stage 3D logic to present the transport controls as an overlay - interacting with issues in the Linux version of Flash 11; Windows and Mac have this acceleration logic, according to their own release notes.

Intel chipsets (reliant on software) are perfectly OK.

Accelerated rendering WAS available in Flash 10.3 and the beta versions of Flash 11.

The BBC also now stipulate that Flash 10.1 is the minimum version required to play content on iPlayer - the only backout Force Install option offered is Flash 10.0.42 or thereabouts.

Please could you arrange packaging of Adobe Flash 10.3 - http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/completion/?installer=Flash_Player_10_for_other_Linux_(.tar.gz)

.. so that a functional backward option is available?

This issue also may help with issues on 4OD as well.

Thanks

My kit - Lenovo Ideapad S12, Ubuntu 10.04LTS with all updates.

Alex Cockell (alcockell) wrote :

The most recent older version (available under flashplugin-installer) is 10.0.42... too far out of date. 10.3 was released on 21st August 2011.

Please assist ASAP - I'm having to view iPlayer content on my R61 - but would like the option on my netbook.

Alex Cockell (alcockell) wrote :

I have complained to the BBC, but as yet I have not received case numbers from them; here are threads where this issue is discussed.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1659949&highlight=iplayer

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=54112530&postcount=3

There are others. WOuld it also be possible for Canonical to approach the BBC and liaise with them - as it appears that iPlayer is now completely broken for Linux+Nvidia users.

tags: added: needs-packaging
Brian Murray (brian-murray) wrote :

*** This is an automated message ***

This bug is tagged needs-packaging which identifies it as a request for a new package in Ubuntu. As a part of the managing needs-packaging bug reports specification, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/NeedsPackagingBugs, all needs-packaging bug reports have Wishlist importance. Subsequently, I'm setting this bug's status to Wishlist.

Changed in ubuntu:
importance: Undecided → Wishlist

This is not a wishlist item. the adobe flash 10 p,kg being updated to v11 instead of a new pkg being rolled has meant thart due to the changes in Flash, netbooks with N270 cpu and nvidia ion gpus cannot eun bbc iplayer.

Please redefine as active bug. This has broken bbc iplayer

----- Original message -----
> *** This is an automated message ***
>
> This bug is tagged needs-packaging which identifies it as a request for
> a new package in Ubuntu.  As a part of the managing needs-packaging bug
> reports specification,
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/NeedsPackagingBugs, all needs-
> packaging bug reports have Wishlist importance.  Subsequently, I'm
> setting this bug's status to Wishlist.
>
> ** Changed in: ubuntu
>      Importance: Undecided => Wishlist
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/886302
>
> Title:
>    [needs-packaging] - Adobe Flash 10.3.183.10 - as Flash 11 current
>    breaks BBC iPlayer for NVIDIA ION-equipped netbooks
>
> Status in Ubuntu:
>    New
>
> Bug description:
>    With Flash 11 current version and package, Adobe stripped out all the
> experimental accelerated rendering support for NVIDIA ION and other
> NVIDIA chipsets.  While Youtube will happily roll back to software accel
> for NVIDIA users, iPlayer won't.  Results seen are....  Video
> compressed, then tries to expand... then freezes completely, then
> iPlayer will not play out video at all - but no issues with audio.
>
>    Effectively, iPlayer is completely unusable if on Intel Atom+NVIDIA
>    equipment running Ubuntu 10.04 and Flash 11.  This is a massive
>    regression and dealbreaker for British Ubuntu users.
>
>    The BBC recently updated their playback client, relying on Stage 3D
>    logic to present the transport controls as an overlay - interacting
>    with issues in the Linux version of Flash 11; Windows and Mac have
>    this acceleration logic, according to their own release notes.
>
>    Intel chipsets (reliant on software) are perfectly OK.
>
>    Accelerated rendering WAS available in Flash 10.3 and the beta
>    versions of Flash 11.
>
>    The BBC also now stipulate that Flash 10.1 is the minimum version
>    required to play content on iPlayer - the only backout Force Install
>    option offered is Flash 10.0.42 or thereabouts.
>
>    Please could you arrange packaging of Adobe Flash 10.3 -
>
> http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/completion/?installer=Flash_Player_10_for_other_Linux_(.tar.gz)
>
>    .. so that a functional backward option is available?
>
>    This issue also may help with issues on 4OD as well.
>
>
>    Thanks
>
>    My kit - Lenovo Ideapad S12, Ubuntu 10.04LTS with all updates.
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/886302/+subscriptions

Breaking a single site that is incompatible with the present version does not make the unavailability of the previous version a non-wishlist bug. The bug is either in the BBC site's flash content or in Flash 11. This is a genuine wishlist item and I hope it is "fixed" but it is certainly nothing more than that, judging from the description you have provided.

Furthermore, all needs-packaging requests are given wishlist importance, regardless of how positive the consequences would be of addressing them (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/NeedsPackagingBugs for details).

Alex Cockell (alcockell) wrote :

But it means i have to buy a new computer to watch iplayer content.

 Please could canonical and the bbc discuss.. This breaks an entire class of machines.

----- Original message -----
> Breaking a single site that is incompatible with the present version
> does not make the unavailability of the previous version a non-wishlist
> bug. The bug is either in the BBC site's flash content or in Flash 11.
> This is a genuine wishlist item and I hope it is "fixed" but it is
> certainly nothing more than that, judging from the description you have
> provided.
>
> Furthermore, all needs-packaging requests are given wishlist importance,
> regardless of how positive the consequences would be of addressing them
> (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/NeedsPackagingBugs for
> details).
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/886302
>
> Title:
>    [needs-packaging] - Adobe Flash 10.3.183.10 - as Flash 11 current
>    breaks BBC iPlayer for NVIDIA ION-equipped netbooks
>
> Status in Ubuntu:
>    New
>
> Bug description:
>    With Flash 11 current version and package, Adobe stripped out all the
> experimental accelerated rendering support for NVIDIA ION and other
> NVIDIA chipsets.  While Youtube will happily roll back to software accel
> for NVIDIA users, iPlayer won't.  Results seen are....  Video
> compressed, then tries to expand... then freezes completely, then
> iPlayer will not play out video at all - but no issues with audio.
>
>    Effectively, iPlayer is completely unusable if on Intel Atom+NVIDIA
>    equipment running Ubuntu 10.04 and Flash 11.  This is a massive
>    regression and dealbreaker for British Ubuntu users.
>
>    The BBC recently updated their playback client, relying on Stage 3D
>    logic to present the transport controls as an overlay - interacting
>    with issues in the Linux version of Flash 11; Windows and Mac have
>    this acceleration logic, according to their own release notes.
>
>    Intel chipsets (reliant on software) are perfectly OK.
>
>    Accelerated rendering WAS available in Flash 10.3 and the beta
>    versions of Flash 11.
>
>    The BBC also now stipulate that Flash 10.1 is the minimum version
>    required to play content on iPlayer - the only backout Force Install
>    option offered is Flash 10.0.42 or thereabouts.
>
>    Please could you arrange packaging of Adobe Flash 10.3 -
>
> http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/completion/?installer=Flash_Player_10_for_other_Linux_(.tar.gz)
>
>    .. so that a functional backward option is available?
>
>    This issue also may help with issues on 4OD as well.
>
>
>    Thanks
>
>    My kit - Lenovo Ideapad S12, Ubuntu 10.04LTS with all updates.
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/886302/+subscriptions

Since the bug is either in Adobe Flash or in the BBC's flash content, perhaps Adobe and the BBC could work together to ameliorate the problem...

How does this break *any* machines? Can't you just remove the Flash player as packaged for Ubuntu, and install it from http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/completion/?installer=Flash_Player_10_for_other_Linux_(.tar.gz) (the link you yourself provided)?

Not confident. And would prefer to rely on official packages -
especially when it came to eventually accepting 12.04.1 next year...

Also, am thinking of other users as well. And when or if Adobe manage
to get Stage Video/3D/whatever sorted - would prefer to just accept the
update through Update Manager...

On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 22:13 +0000, Eliah Kagan wrote:
> Since the bug is either in Adobe Flash or in the BBC's flash content,
> perhaps Adobe and the BBC could work together to ameliorate the
> problem...
>
> How does this break *any* machines? Can't you just remove the Flash
> player as packaged for Ubuntu, and install it from
> http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/completion/?installer=Flash_Player_10_for_other_Linux_(.tar.gz)
> (the link you yourself provided)?
>

--
Alex Cockell
<email address hidden>

Using Flash 10 instead of Flash 11 will break the (probably now hundreds, if not thousands) of websites that only work with Flash 11, either because they use features only present in major version 11, or because they trigger bugs that were fixed in major version 11 (or in some incremental release after that). Using Flash 10 is therefore not a generally good solution to the problem of this one website not working. The goal of making Flash work better for users in general would not be served significantly by fixing this bug, and the goal of making Flash work better for users in your specific situation, while it would be served by fixing this, would not be served particularly well.

That is not to say that this bug should not be fixed. It might well be the case that there is significant benefit to giving users the ability and option to choose Flash 10 (packaged for Ubuntu) as well as Flash 11 (packaged for Ubuntu). I am not convinced that this is the case, but I hope this post should not be taken as an argument against it.

Either the website should be fixed, or Flash 11 should be fixed (depending on which contains the bug). If the website is fixed, then no one needs to update anything. If Flash 11 is fixed, the update will presumably be available to all users of all supported Ubuntu releases, including Ubuntu 12.04 LTS once it's out (whether the fix happens before or after its release). This is because Adobe Flash is proprietary and there is no way for Ubuntu developers to backport just fixes for security vulnerabilities and serious security/stability bugs, creating Ubuntu-specific versions (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates). Since this cannot be done, updates to Flash in Ubuntu get new features (and new bugs) as well as fixes for serious bugs.

Have you actually replaced Flash 11 on your system with Flash 10 to see if that actually fixes the problem on the BBC website?

"Also, am thinking of other users as well. And when or if Adobe manage
to get Stage Video/3D/whatever sorted - would prefer to just accept the
update through Update Manager..."

Are you saying you think Adobe will release additional updates for Flash 10 providing major functionality changes?

Download full text (4.9 KiB)

Probably not, but while unsupported, an option to fix at Flash 10.2 or 10.3 until Adobe reintroduce Stage Video (whatever they call it) would enable low power machines to actually *use* iPlayer, Youtube, Demand5, 4OD and other streaming video-on-Flash smoothly. this is the crux of the issue. A stopgap... Yes... But a needed one. and much better a package so nothing breaks when accepting the upgrade to 12.04.

either that or whitelist Totem-plugins for full H264 from the Beeb and other broadcasters... So nvidia+atom users can actually USE their kit.

----- Original message -----
> Using Flash 10 instead of Flash 11 will break the (probably now
> hundreds, if not thousands) of websites that only work with Flash 11,
> either because they use features only present in major version 11, or
> because they trigger bugs that were fixed in major version 11 (or in
> some incremental release after that). Using Flash 10 is therefore not a
> generally good solution to the problem of this one website not working.
> The goal of making Flash work better for users in general would not be
> served significantly by fixing this bug, and the goal of making Flash
> work better for users in your specific situation, while it would be
> served by fixing this, would not be served particularly well.
>
> That is not to say that this bug should not be fixed. It might well be
> the case that there is significant benefit to giving users the ability
> and option to choose Flash 10 (packaged for Ubuntu) as well as Flash 11
> (packaged for Ubuntu). I am not convinced that this is the case, but I
> hope this post should not be taken as an argument against it.
>
> Either the website should be fixed, or Flash 11 should be fixed
> (depending on which contains the bug). If the website is fixed, then no
> one needs to update anything. If Flash 11 is fixed, the update will
> presumably be available to all users of all supported Ubuntu releases,
> including Ubuntu 12.04 LTS once it's out (whether the fix happens before
> or after its release). This is because Adobe Flash is proprietary and
> there is no way for Ubuntu developers to backport just fixes for
> security vulnerabilities and serious security/stability bugs, creating
> Ubuntu-specific versions (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates).
> Since this cannot be done, updates to Flash in Ubuntu get new features
> (and new bugs) as well as fixes for serious bugs.
>
> Have you actually replaced Flash 11 on your system with Flash 10 to see
> if that actually fixes the problem on the BBC website?
>
> "Also, am thinking of other users as well. And when or if Adobe manage
> to get Stage Video/3D/whatever sorted - would prefer to just accept the
> update through Update Manager..."
>
> Are you saying you think Adobe will release additional updates for Flash
> 10 providing major functionality changes?
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/886302
>
> Title:
>    [needs-packaging] - Adobe Flash 10.3.183.10 - as Flash 11 current
>    breaks BBC iPlayer for NVIDIA ION-equipped netbooks
>
> Status in Ubuntu:
>    New
>
> Bug descriptio...

Read more...

Alex Cockell (alcockell) wrote :

Thinking back to the experience on iPlayer when the change was made, the situation was exacerbated by the Flash 10 package being updated to Flash 11 *in place*, as opposed to a new Flash 11 package being built and adobe-flashplugin just repointed to it. Doing it this way rather than Flash 11 named as Flash 10 in Software Centre etc - the contents changed but the pkg remaining the same - would have meant it might have been possible to force version within Synaptic - or offer the two versions of Flash in Software Centre.

There is an active bug reported for Android on the iPlayer's help pages, which recommend they back down to 10.3 - but 10.3 is available as an app in the Android store. Win users have an installer to do the dirty work - surely it would be best for Ubuntu to offer a backout package just while Adobe get themselves organised...

There's also the issue of large deployments when a showstopping bug is released within Flash...

Alex Cockell (alcockell) wrote :

Oh - also, the removal of Stage Video for NVIDIA was a deliberate decision by Adobe - which was done between Beta and Gold release...
Not offering a backout without stepping into the murky world of tarballs and monitoring for patches does seem a little remiss IMHO. And scary for less technical users.

Alex Cockell (alcockell) wrote :

Just found this Reddit thread - http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/lu5ke/adobe_flash_can_suck_my_balls/

Specifically this comment " So, not 11 then which had the most recent and finally legitimately good updates to hardware acceleration and 64bit support?

Huh? Not in Linux, according to a reply that I got from Adobe. Flashplayer 10.3 had VDPAU hardware-acceleration that worked with recent Nvidia chipsets (enabled by creating the file /etc/adobe/mms.cfg containing EnableLinuxHWVideoDecode=1) but that's been removed from Flashplayer 11 due to "security problems".
"

Please could devs look at this package - at least then a usable and easily accessible solution is there?

They ripped out the rendering but left the decoding logic (thank goodness)

Alex Cockell (alcockell) wrote :

Oh the Beeb's front, they're investigating the issues - my case number is BBC iPlayer - Case number CAS-1085162-WX025B

BBC's own FAQ page - http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/announcements/flash_upgrade - suggests it may be possible to drop down to a minimum version of 10.1... as previously stated... it would behoove Ubuntu devs to get flashplugin-installer to offer 10.2 and 10.3 asap.

Launchpad Janitor (janitor) wrote :

Status changed to 'Confirmed' because the bug affects multiple users.

Changed in ubuntu:
status: New → Confirmed
negora (negora) wrote :

I'm also using a notebook equipped with the ION chipset and am affected by this absurd decision from Adobe. Until now I had been using a development version of Flash 10. But I decided to move to Flash 11, believing that it would include an improved and official hardware video acceleration. But, fter trying to play several 720p and 1080p videos on YouTube I realized that it wasn't working. Now I can't use my notebook as media center.

Fortunately I saved several of the test libraries which Adobe Labs released in the past. I'm trying to restore one of them now...

negora (negora) wrote :

Version 11.1.102.55 has just been published but it doesn't solve the problem, obviously. The beta 11.2 doesn't either (it even can't play video in my case).

But finally, I've been able to recover these versions (luckily I still kept many of them in my computer):

flashplayer_square_p1_32bit_linux_091510.tar.gz
flashplayer_square_p1_64bit_linux_091510.tar.gz
flashplayer_square_p2_32bit_linux_092710.tar.gz
flashplayer_square_p2_64bit_linux_092710.tar.gz
flashplayer10_2_p3_64bit_linux_111710.tar.gz

I can't remember which one I used before the version 11. I've tried to play hardware accelerated video in my Ubuntu 11.04 (64-bit), with a nVidia 9600 GT video card (which is enabled for VDPAU and works flawless with it), but I've NOT been able to make it work with any of the archives mentioned above. Everytime I played a 1080p video the CPU usage reached 100%.

I've not tested in my ION netbook, but I believe that it worked in my desktop computer in the past.

Jörg Frings-Fürst (jff-de) wrote :

flashplayer now in version 11.2.202.34

Set status to invalid

Changed in ubuntu:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
To post a comment you must log in.
This report contains Public information  Edit
Everyone can see this information.

Other bug subscribers