Ubuntu is missing the alsa-firmware package

[Sampo Savolainen]

===
Although alsa-firmware is not being included in Ubuntu, all firmware will be included in linux-firmware. Some of it is already included, and the rest will be done for the Maverick release (assuming no legal problems with doing so). Likely, a separate bug will be opened to track that progress. More information to follow later on.
===

Ubuntu doesn't have a package which would contain the firmware that ALSA ships
in their alsa-firmware package. The lack of the firmware makes many high-end
soundcards unusable in ubuntu. The firmware for the soundcards is shipped within
the alsa source package, so the license shouldn't be an issue.

[Martin Pitt (pitti)]

To be precise, alsa-firmware is a separate tarball from upstream; it's not currently shipped in any Ubuntu source package and needs to be packaged from scratch.

[Carthik Sharma (carthik)]

Confirming and subscribing the MOTUs.

[Daniel T Chen (crimsun)]

Does not exist in Debian, either, so deferring until Edgy.

[Richard Lamont (richard-lamont)]

Edgy is due to be released next week and this package is still missing.

[Daniel T Chen (crimsun)]

No one from the community stepped up to create a package and submit it for inclusion in Ubuntu. It will not be in Edgy.

[Sampo Savolainen (v2)]

Before setting that commandement in stone, you should ask the ubuntustudio people if they have a package for it ready.

[Daniel T Chen (crimsun)]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sampo Savolainen wrote:
> Before setting that commandement in stone, you should ask the
> ubuntustudio people if they have a package for it ready.

At this point it doesn't matter if there _is_ a package ready. We're
fewer than three days away from release, so nothing new is going in. Period.

Thanks,
- --
Daniel T. Chen <email address hidden>
GPG key: 0xC88ABDA3
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[Marco Rodrigues (gothicx)]

kmos@bash:~$ sudo apt-cache search alsa-firmware
Password:
alsa-firmware-loaders - ALSA software loaders for specific hardware

Isn't that on Feisty ?

[Toby Smithe (tsmithe)]

alsa-firmware is currently in the Ubuntu Studio repository, details of which you can find at http://ubuntustudio.org/downloads
I will be aiming to have it incorporated into linux-restricted-modules in Gutsy; I believe this to be possible.

[Marco Rodrigues (gothicx)]

http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5216

[gagarine (gagarine)]

No progresse? I would like install a RME Hammerfall DSP multiface on my ubuntu feisty... but i don't find the firemwear :(.

[gagarine (gagarine)]

http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=44 but on gusty I don't have the alsa-firmware package any way:

gagarine@area42:~$ sudo aptitude search alsa-firmware
p alsa-firmware-loaders - ALSA software loaders for specific hardware
gagarine@area42:~$

[Toby Smithe (tsmithe)]

Unmarking as duplicate: bug 189104 affects the loaders, whereas this bug is regarding the firmware package itself.

[Toby Smithe (tsmithe)]

Except that this doesn't require packaging: alsa-firmware is currently on its way into Medibuntu. See [0]. It is unsuitable for Ubuntu distribution (even via multiverse), as it has many licensing incompatibilities. Removing infringing parts of the package would result in crippling it, as so much would have to be taken out.

[0] https://code.launchpad.net/~medibuntu-maintainers/medibuntu/alsa-firmware.hardy

[Toby Smithe (tsmithe)]

Will never fix in Ubuntu (in current copyright state), but a fix has been available in Medibuntu for a while now.

[Endolith (endolith)]

So Echo hardware is supported in Windows and Mac, but will never be supported by Ubuntu?

[ttoine (ttoine)]

Endolith,

It is!

 Just go to http://medibuntu.org , add their repository to synaptic, and
install "alsa-firmware" package and dependencies. Reboot with your pci
or pcmcia Echo sound card plugged, and the kernel will load it. Enjoy!

Toine

Endolith a écrit :
> So Echo hardware is supported in Windows and Mac, but will never be
> supported by Ubuntu?
>
>

[Endolith (endolith)]

1. I plug in my Echo Indigo sound card, which works fine in Windows and Mac. Nothing happens.
2. Being a somewhat technically-minded user, I check in the System Log to see if there are any errors so I can figure out why it isn't recognized.
3. I copy and paste the errors into Google.
4. I find a bug report, which includes a link to a third-party repository named Medibuntu, which I have never heard of in several years of using Linux.
5. I open a terminal and copy and paste commands to install the Medibuntu repositories.
6. After updating my package manager, I have to manually fix broken packages and inconsistent dependencies.
7. After fixing my package manager, I install the firmware package and my hardware finally works.

If that's what you call "supported by Ubuntu", you might as well mark Bug #1 as Won't Fix.

[Albin Tonnerre (lutin)]

I'd love to have more details about the "broken packages and inconsistent dependencies." thing

Cheers

[ttoine (ttoine)]

Endolith,

I don't want ot go into a troll, this not the place for.

First point, if you have broken packages when adding medibuntu
repository, it is up to you and not the case at all for everyone (yes,
it appends...) If you do that from a fresh Ubuntu 8.04 install, you
won't have this kind of problem.

Second point, for licence purpose, it is not possible for Canonical and
Ubuntu to host some packages like alsa-firmware on their own
repositories. The case has been discussed a lot, there is nothing to do
at this point. That is why Medibuntu was created by a third party team.

Third point, and not the least, Medibuntu is nowadays a well known
project. If you want to read dvds with libdvdcss and libdvdread3, to
have w32codecs (or w64 or ppc), alsa-firmware, and other non
distributable stuff like that, without compiling from sources...
Medibuntu is the project created and maintained for this purpose. For
exemple, you will find in Medibuntu another version of Mplayer, with
full codecs support. It is not the case with the standard Ubuntu package.

Sorry that we can't propose a better solution. It is not possible at
this time, and it is more because of the licence of the firmware
proposed by the manufacturers, than because of the Ubuntu teams.

For myself I use the alsa-firmware package provided by the Ubuntu Studio
Team for more than one year now, and I am glad to have the possibility
out of the box to use my Echo Indigo I/O and my RME hdsp Multiface II
sound cards, with Jack and Ardour2, at low latency with the -rt kernel.
Medibuntu is the first thing I add to Synaptic when installing a
workstation, and second is WineHQ. So I can do every Multimedia work
with Ubuntu and free softwares.

Toine

Endolith a écrit :
> 1. I plug in my Echo Indigo sound card, which works fine in Windows and Mac. Nothing happens.
> 2. Being a somewhat technically-minded user, I check in the System Log to see if there are any errors so I can figure out why it isn't recognized.
> 3. I copy and paste the errors into Google.
> 4. I find a bug report, which includes a link to a third-party repository named Medibuntu, which I have never heard of in several years of using Linux.
> 5. I open a terminal and copy and paste commands to install the Medibuntu repositories.
> 6. After updating my package manager, I have to manually fix broken packages and inconsistent dependencies.
> 7. After fixing my package manager, I install the firmware package and my hardware finally works.
>
> If that's what you call "supported by Ubuntu", you might as well mark
> Bug #1 as Won't Fix.
>
>

[Endolith (endolith)]

"I'd love to have more details about the "broken packages and inconsistent dependencies." thing"

Sorry, I don't remember the details. I had to uninstall several packages and reinstall them (or similarly named ones) to deal with conflicting dependencies. It's very confusing.

"Second point, for licence purpose, it is not possible for Canonical and
Ubuntu to host some packages like alsa-firmware on their own
repositories. The case has been discussed a lot, there is nothing to do
at this point. That is why Medibuntu was created by a third party team."

Ok, but this does not count as "supporting" hardware. If that is true, then this hardware will be forever unsupported by Ubuntu, and the process for making it supported on individual computers is currently unacceptable for most people who might otherwise choose Ubuntu.

Also, isn't the whole point of the "restricted drivers" dialog to make installation of things like this easier? Why isn't this included there? Is there a better place for discussion about this?

[ttoine (ttoine)]

Restricted driver management can not install alsa-firmware, because the
package is not included in the "restricted" repository, like nvidia
restricted driver.

For the what you said before, we do our best for supporting sound cards.
If we can't do better, it is most of the time a problem of the vendor,
not from Ubuntu. And as I said, Medibuntu repository is like Wine HQ or
other third party project, with their own repository. I guess that in
time, it will be included in Ubuntu, like a lot of project started as
third party : Kubuntu is a good exemple of that point.

To discuss (troll ??) again about that subject, you have #ubuntu-devel
on irc, and other channels, plus devel mailing lists, etc... Good luck,
we have no success on that problem for more than 2 years now.

Toine

[Endolith (endolith)]

You agree that "we have no success on this problem", and yet you call me a troll?

http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct

[ttoine (ttoine)]

Endolith,

I confirm that we can't do more or better at the moment, and that a lot of time, skills and energy have been deployed to get the current alsa-firmware package in Medibuntu. So it is a bit of a success, as it is more that nothing at all, like at the beginning of Ubuntu. A lot of people use Medibuntu for that kind of packages, as I already said.

What I see now is that your hardware works. Isn't it the most important point?

For the "Troll" word, I don't mean that you are a troll at all. Read again. I mean that the subject and current chat can be considered as a troll, with regards to the Launchpad rules, or can derivate to.

For the last point, bug#1, just read that line:
"3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes."

It makes a couple of years now that Ubuntu started. And even at its beginning, it was a revolution in the Linux distribution world for the "user friendly" point of view. It is aimed to be better and better. A lot of people is involved, even if they can do just a bit. We all try to do our best for that. So, as always with Open Source Software world, be patient, and please, contribute.

Toine

[David Henningsson (diwic)]

Is there a mailinglist archive or similar where I can read up on this issue, and understand what caused the decision to keep alsa-firmware out of Ubuntu?

[ttoine (ttoine)]

It's just because most of firmwares in the package don't have licence of
sources, etc... and so, nobody wants to take the responsibily to package
it, even in a restricted repository. At the moment, it is hosted and
packaged by the Medibuntu project.

Toine

[David Henningsson (diwic)]

I just downloaded alsa-firmware 1.0.20 and checked it. Assuming the copyright notices in the alsa-firmware aren't lying, I found the following to be ok: aica, echoaudio, emi_26_62, hdsploader, mixartloader, pcxhrloader, usx2yloader and vxloader. The other six is beyond my legal knowledge to know whether they are ok or not. Probably at least two of them are, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Among those that are ok, I assume at least echoaudio (Indigo I/O etc), usx2yloader (tascam) and hdsploader (RME cards) are not that uncommon. So a split, between at least eight in Ubuntu-restricted (or multiverse), and the rest in Medibuntu, could be justified IMHO.

Btw, Fedora and OpenSuse both ship with alsa-firmware. If that matters.

[ttoine (ttoine)]

David,

If I would skilled enough, I would have already packaged alsa-firmware
in a PPA or something like that. Perhaps can you do something like that ?

[David Henningsson (diwic)]

Sure, I think I could make an alsa-firmware-stripped package, assuming the decision makers would consider it for inclusion in multiverse.

Also I noticed something interesting when looking at medibuntu's packaging: ess, korg, sb16 and yamaha files are removed because they are already provided by linux-firmware. So out of the seven to strip (asihpi, emu, korg1212, maestro3, sb16, wavefront, ymfpci), stripping korg, maestro3, sb16 and ymfpci doesn't make any difference! That leaves us only three firmwares unsupported: asihpi, emu, and wavefront. Unfortunately emu seems quite common, but I haven't heard of the other two.

[EliotBlennerhassett (eliot-blennerhassett)]

I work for AudioScience, the ultimate 'upstream' for asihpi drivers and firmware.

The asihpi firmware is required to run the snd-asihpi driver which afaik is packaged by Ubuntu (thanks!)

This driver is for AudioScience soundcards (http://audioscience.com).

Anything I can do to get this firmware included, please let me know.

[ttoine (ttoine)]

Eliot,

You can find the alsa-firmware package in the medibuntu repository. If
your firmware is not included in this package, think to make a bug
report on alsa-project.org. Please take care to licence of the firmware
if you want it to be included !

Toine

EliotBlennerhassett a écrit :
> I work for AudioScience, the ultimate 'upstream' for asihpi drivers and
> firmware.
>
> The asihpi firmware is required to run the snd-asihpi driver which afaik
> is packaged by Ubuntu (thanks!)
>
> This driver is for AudioScience soundcards (http://audioscience.com).
>
> Anything I can do to get this firmware included, please let me know.
>
>

[David Henningsson (diwic)]

Eliot,

First, thanks for your interest in Ubuntu and Linux! I'm always happy to see hardware manufacturers show their interest. I'm just a volunteer, but I did have a look at the alsa-firmware package a while ago, and I didn't see a proper license notice for the asihpi firmware.
So if you could put a compressed file with all firmware inside, and also include a license statement which clearly allows anyone to redistribute and use the firmware as needed, that would be a great first step. (I'm not a license expert, so the exact wording of the license is beyond my knowledge.)

The second step would be to try to integrate this firmware into linux-firmware, since that one is included in Ubuntu. I could try to help you with that when I have some free time, but if you need it to happen within a predictable time frame (i e, included in Ubuntu 10.04), please contact Canonical directly.

[ttoine (ttoine)]

Eliot, David,

The alsa-firmware package is not in Ubuntu, but in Medibuntu. So if you
want to include new firmwares, please contact Medibuntu, and not Canonical.

Toine

[Daniel T Chen (crimsun)]

Erm, no, work with Chase et al. to provide a proper WHENCE and
firmware files to place into the linux-firmware package (if the
license is Free. Otherwise, use linux-firmware-nonfree).

[EliotBlennerhassett (eliot-blennerhassett)]

Please more detail about how to contact "Chase et al."

A few more details about snd-asihpi driver:

It is packaged in linux-ubuntu-modules-KERNELVER which is a great start.
However, the driver is useless without *matching* firmware.
In general the module and firmware must be updated at the same time, so having both in the same repo is really desirable.

(Non-matching versions may or may not work, but we never test such configurations)

[Daniel T Chen (crimsun)]

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 6:38 PM, EliotBlennerhassett
<email address hidden> wrote:
> Please more detail about how to contact "Chase et al."

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam#Contacts

Depending on the license of the firmware, clone the appropriate git
tree (kernel.ubuntu.com/git), add the firmware files, add the proper
WHENCE, reference this bug report, and send a git-pull-request to
kernel-team at lists dot ubuntu dot com.

[ttoine (ttoine)]

Eliot,

For Alsa-firmware, it was possible to use the old version from 64 Studio
in Hardy LTS and Karmic "out of the box". It seems to be a very
"standard" package, for all distributions.

Toine

[EliotBlennerhassett (eliot-blennerhassett)]

ttoine wrote:
> Eliot,
>
> For Alsa-firmware, it was possible to use the old version from 64 Studio
> in Hardy LTS and Karmic "out of the box". It seems to be a very
> "standard" package, for all distributions.

That isn't going to work for snd-asihpi driver.
Both driver and DSP firmware have changed, so old firmware is not compatible with new driver.

--
Eliot

[David Henningsson (diwic)]

Eliot, Toine,
I've started a new bug #557037 for tracking the inclusion of snd-asihpi firmware into linux-firmware. Let us continue the discussion about snd-asihpi there.

[David Henningsson (diwic)]

Let's sum up, and Toine, this is also an answer to your question in bug #557037.

Either alsa-firmware is all legal and then we should move all firmwares to linux-firmware.

Or alsa-firmware is partially illegal, then we should move all legal firmwares to linux-firmware and throw away the rest,

Or we don't know if it's legal or not, then we should find out first.

As for how to move the firmware, I agree with Daniel's instructions but would like to add that it would be better to work with the upstream maintainer of linux-firmware (David Woodhouse), and his git repo.

[ttoine (ttoine)]

David,

Thanks for the resume. So it means that one day, we will see all that
audio harware working out of the box. But when, that's the final
question ???

[David Henningsson (diwic)]

Ttoine,

I believe the lack of knowledge/consensus regarding what is legal or not is currently what's keeping us from moving forward here. If the Medibuntu community has done some research in this area, that information would probably be helpful.

Once that has been sorted out, it's just a question of manpower.

[ttoine (ttoine)]

David,

I and some of Ubuntu Studio team did some work about licences of
firmwares in the alsa-firmware package they host. I am very confident
about this work. Perhaps could you have a look at it. If something is
still missing (licence file, etc...) I will do my best to get it.

Toine

[Angus Kerr (angus-tropical)]

Toine Scholtz? just checking
 was
Just hit the same issue after installing a clean 10.04 Ubuntu Studio with an EMU-1212 card. Grabbed the tarball from the alsa website and installed the old fashioned way.

After the initial glitch of the firmware missing, I am very impressed with the distro.

Feels very steady, graphics are great with the Nvidia restricted driver. Would be great if the firmware issue was resolved and distributed with the base system.

[John Vivirito (gnomefreak)]

I don't understand this bug. Here is what i get
when i search for it:
alsa-firmware-loaders - ALSA software loaders for
specific hardware
Here is some other info i have on this:
 apt-cache show:
gnomefreak@Development:~$ show alsa-firmware-loaders
Package: alsa-firmware-loaders
Priority: extra
Section: multiverse/sound
Installed-Size: 240
Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers
<email address hidden>
Original-Maintainer: Debian ALSA Maintainers
<email address hidden>
Architecture: i386
Source: alsa-tools
Version: 1.0.22-0ubuntu1
Depends: libasound2 (>> 1.0.22), libc6 (>= 2.4),
udev, fxload
Filename:
pool/multiverse/a/alsa-tools/alsa-firmware-loaders_1.0.22-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
Size: 32314
MD5sum: 0fa7ba382bf4f98b5e5689a0b646ef05
SHA1: 6924a83d9b0c17fcce505d9d4db47991891dbd74
SHA256:
19bd5a61a0f4b9ac6862491d3d35e10378688df366bd8203f30b3f6b29b11c20
Description: ALSA software loaders for specific
hardware
 A collection of software loaders for specific
hardware:
 .
  cspctl - Sound Blaster 16 ASP/CSP control program
  hdsploader - firmware loader for the RME
Hammerfall DSP cards
  mixartloader - firmware loader for Digigram's
miXart board sound drivers
  pcxhrloader - firmware loader for Digigram pcxhr
compatible soundcards
  sscape_ctl - SoundScape control utility and
firmware loader
  usx2yloader - firmware loader for Tascam USX2Y
USB soundcards
  vxloader - firmware loader for Digigram VX
soundcards
Homepage: http://www.alsa-project.org/
Bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
Origin: Ubuntu

apt-cache policy:
gnomefreak@Development:~$ policy alsa-firmware-loaders
alsa-firmware-loaders:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 1.0.22-0ubuntu1
  Version table:
     1.0.22-0ubuntu1 0
        500 http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
maverick/multiverse Packages

It is also in Lucid and Karmic. That is as far as
I checked.

There is also a package named "alsa-firmware"
That is a Medibuntu package and includes some
things that our package does not.

I guess this is all mainly on what you need.

On 05/13/2010 07:05 AM, Angus Kerr wrote:
> Toine Scholtz? just checking
> was
> Just hit the same issue after installing a clean 10.04 Ubuntu Studio with an EMU-1212 card. Grabbed the tarball from the alsa website and installed the old fashioned way.
>
> After the initial glitch of the firmware missing, I am very impressed
> with the distro.
>
> Feels very steady, graphics are great with the Nvidia restricted driver.
> Would be great if the firmware issue was resolved and distributed with
> the base system.
>

--
Sincerely Yours,
    John Vivirito

https://launchpad.net/~gnomefreak
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnVivirito
Linux User# 414246

"How can i get lost, if i have no where to go"
    -- Metallica from Unforgiven III

[Daniel T Chen (crimsun)]

John, that's the binary package from the alsa-tools source package. It isn't the package that's being discussed here, namely, all the firmwares in the alsa-firmware upstream package need to be inserted into the linux-firmware source package in Maverick. This effort is underway already.

[John Vivirito (gnomefreak)]

Ok thanks

On 05/13/10 15:45, Daniel T Chen wrote:
> John, that's the binary package from the alsa-tools source package. It
> isn't the package that's being discussed here, namely, all the firmwares
> in the alsa-firmware upstream package need to be inserted into the
> linux-firmware source package in Maverick. This effort is underway
> already.
>

--
Sincerely Yours,
     John Vivirito

https://launchpad.net/~gnomefreak
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnVivirito
Linux User# 414246

"How can i get lost, if i have no where to go"
     -- Metallica from Unforgiven III

[ttoine (ttoine)]

Angus,

So you confirm that just installing the default alsa-firmware package
from alsa-project.org make your sound card working. Great.

The problem seems currently that all firmwares for Linux kernel are
moving into a new way of restricted parts of the kernel, so in near
future, alsa-firmware should be depreciated. I hope too that it will be
soon in Ubuntu.

Toine

[Angus Kerr (angus-tropical)]

Ttoine,

Answer 5 years later (!), but yes. Only needed to install the fiirmware (and have done so again with 14.04.2). For my sound card, where I don't think that the firmware has changed, it would appear that it's fine to have the alsa drivers and firmware at different versions. I presume this would not be the case for newer sound cards.

Still appears that the problem surrounding this discussion remains: no alsa-firmware package. And the Medibuntu option is no longer available.

[ttoine (ttoine)]

check if it included in the linux firmware package

Antoine THOMAS
Tél: [phone]

2015-04-02 12:11 GMT+02:00 Angus Kerr <email address hidden>:

> Ttoine,
>
> Answer 5 years later (!), but yes. Only needed to install the fiirmware
> (and have done so again with 14.04.2). For my sound card, where I don't
> think that the firmware has changed, it would appear that it's fine to
> have the alsa drivers and firmware at different versions. I presume this
> would not be the case for newer sound cards.
>
> Still appears that the problem surrounding this discussion remains: no
> alsa-firmware package. And the Medibuntu option is no longer available.
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to a
> duplicate bug report (164241).
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/26294
>
> Title:
> Ubuntu is missing the alsa-firmware package
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/medibuntu/+bug/26294/+subscriptions
>