(wireless) network driver missing from the dvd

Bug #239082 reported by davide on 2008-06-11
6
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
Ubuntu
Undecided
Unassigned

Bug Description

Well, this actually is not a "real" bug, it is just a design flaw.

When you are installing from a media (namely the dvd, but I guess that would be worst for the cdrom) you should get from there everything you need to "start-up". Unfortunately this was not the case for a good 2 among the 3 computers (home, work and wife) on where I installed Ubuntu. For both, the wireless network was not working and it was really a pain to find workarounds to make it available. The sad thing is that the packages to make the network works are available and well-working, but only for download, not on the media!!
How are you supposed to download something from the network, if the network itself is not working? I guess in the mind of who made this choice, wireless is the "secondary" network, whereas wired is the primary, but this was not the case for me. These packages MUST be included in the dvd AND cdrom for the future releases, IMHO (there is not space problem for the DVD which is not overflowing)

The first laptop needed b43-fwcutter. Here the problem is the license which does not allow the distribution. Canonical should lobby to change their mind.

The second computer needed ndiswrapper. Here there is not any license problem (and the packages are actually three, not one).

Thanks

Ahh ! the problem of "Ethics" , Broadcom wants to restrict its' drivers, as
do many other companies. Should Canonical lobby these companies, on behalf
of all Linux users ? Why ? Ubuntu users represent a lot of the worldwide
community, perhaps 20-25% (Mark will surely correct me), but we are getting
the lions' share of publicity.
Scroll down here <http://distrowatch.com/> to see the daily results.
  BUT, Canonical is an "Ethical" organization ! Some Distros will break the
rules, a bad idea,not Canonical,Ltd., t they are following the logical
path, "do it right".
Why don't you lobby "Broadcom" ? You (and so did I) purchased their wireless
product.
Join the community, the waters' fine !
Allen Graham

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:12 AM, Dereck Wonnacott <email address hidden> wrote:

> *** This bug is a duplicate of bug 1 ***
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
>
> ** This bug has been marked a duplicate of bug 1
> Microsoft has a majority market share
>
> --
> (wireless) network driver missing from the dvd
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/239082
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug (via bug 1).
>
> Status in Ubuntu: New
>
> Bug description:
> Well, this actually is not a "real" bug, it is just a design flaw.
>
> When you are installing from a media (namely the dvd, but I guess that
> would be worst for the cdrom) you should get from there everything you need
> to "start-up". Unfortunately this was not the case for a good 2 among the 3
> computers (home, work and wife) on where I installed Ubuntu. For both, the
> wireless network was not working and it was really a pain to find
> workarounds to make it available. The sad thing is that the packages to make
> the network works are available and well-working, but only for download, not
> on the media!!
> How are you supposed to download something from the network, if the network
> itself is not working? I guess in the mind of who made this choice, wireless
> is the "secondary" network, whereas wired is the primary, but this was not
> the case for me. These packages MUST be included in the dvd AND cdrom for
> the future releases, IMHO (there is not space problem for the DVD which is
> not overflowing)
>
> The first laptop needed b43-fwcutter. Here the problem is the license which
> does not allow the distribution. Canonical should lobby to change their
> mind.
>
> The second computer needed ndiswrapper. Here there is not any license
> problem (and the packages are actually three, not one).
>
> Thanks
>

--
http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan

Tina Russell (tinarussell) wrote :
  • unnamed Edit (985 bytes, text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1)

My bro suggested we make this bug dependent upon bug 1, rather than a
duplicate... is that possible, in Launchpad?

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Dereck Wonnacott <email address hidden> wrote:

> *** This bug is a duplicate of bug 1 ***
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
>
> ** This bug has been marked a duplicate of bug 1
> Microsoft has a majority market share
>
> --
> (wireless) network driver missing from the dvd
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/239082
> You received this bug notification because you are a bug assignee (via
> bug 1).
>

Allen Graham (allenggraham) wrote :

It's really part of "Bug # 1" proprietary software, perpetuated by
Microsoft, Apple, and many other companies is there for those groups to hold
a market niche, or worse a major grab! FOSS, free open source software,
here <http://www.fsf.org/>, has been leading the movement for change. While
reporting on the inherent problems goes on with
*Groklaw*<http://www.groklaw.net/index.php>
.
Snake oil salesmen, carpet baggers, and crooked TV evangelists have all but
disappeared, will Microsoft follow them?
Allen

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Tina Russell <
<email address hidden><tinakellyrussell%<email address hidden>>>
wrote:

> *** This bug is a duplicate of bug 1 ***
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
>
> My bro suggested we make this bug dependent upon bug 1, rather than a
> duplicate... is that possible, in Launchpad?
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Dereck Wonnacott <email address hidden>
> wrote:
>
> > *** This bug is a duplicate of bug 1 ***
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
> >
> > ** This bug has been marked a duplicate of bug 1
> > Microsoft has a majority market share
> >
> > --
> > (wireless) network driver missing from the dvd
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/239082
> > You received this bug notification because you are a bug assignee (via
> > bug 1).
> >
>
>
> ** Attachment added: "unnamed"
> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15195450/unnamed
>
> --
> (wireless) network driver missing from the dvd
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/239082
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug (via bug 1).
>
> Status in Ubuntu: New
>
> Bug description:
> Well, this actually is not a "real" bug, it is just a design flaw.
>
> When you are installing from a media (namely the dvd, but I guess that
> would be worst for the cdrom) you should get from there everything you need
> to "start-up". Unfortunately this was not the case for a good 2 among the 3
> computers (home, work and wife) on where I installed Ubuntu. For both, the
> wireless network was not working and it was really a pain to find
> workarounds to make it available. The sad thing is that the packages to make
> the network works are available and well-working, but only for download, not
> on the media!!
> How are you supposed to download something from the network, if the network
> itself is not working? I guess in the mind of who made this choice, wireless
> is the "secondary" network, whereas wired is the primary, but this was not
> the case for me. These packages MUST be included in the dvd AND cdrom for
> the future releases, IMHO (there is not space problem for the DVD which is
> not overflowing)
>
> The first laptop needed b43-fwcutter. Here the problem is the license which
> does not allow the distribution. Canonical should lobby to change their
> mind.
>
> The second computer needed ndiswrapper. Here there is not any license
> problem (and the packages are actually three, not one).
>
> Thanks
>

--
http://picasaweb.google.com/allenggraham/Mazatlan

Julian Andres Klode (juliank) wrote :

ndiswrapper is included since the release of Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron)

Tina Russell (tinarussell) wrote :
  • unnamed Edit (649 bytes, text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1)

In response to Allen:

Yeah, I know. What I meant was that these Broadcom drivers being unavailable
isn't so much the same thing as Microsoft's monopoly (bug 1), but a direct
result of it. Marking bug 1 as a dependency might be a good way to show that
we may need to fix bug 1 before fixing this bug. I totally think it's a
shame that hardware vendors persist in steering customers towards
proprietary solutions without letting them know about more stable and more
secure free alternatives.

In response to Julian:

Ndiswrapper is a good but scary stopgap... it helps patch the problem, but
it doesn't fix it.

Shane Fagan (shanepatrickfagan) wrote :

This isnt a duplicate of bug 1 as solving this problem doesnt have anything to do with microsoft having a majority market share

Julian Andres Klode (juliank) wrote :

Oh, I really meant ndisgtk (The graphical frontend to ndiswrapper). ndiswrapper is included for a long time already.

Julian Andres Klode (juliank) wrote :

BTW, I expect that about 2% are Ubuntu users.

davide (davide-del-vento) wrote :

Folks,
you are just chatting, which wasn't the purpose of my bug-report.
I agree with everything (on this OT I'd suggest is to put your money where your mouth is, and become member of FSF and buy some gear from Ubuntu, if you did not do that already - I plan to do that next week).

But this is a BUG REPORT, not a forum discussion.
The bug is: the two mentioned packages (namely b43-fwcutter and ndiswrapper, the latter having dependences on other two ones) should be available on the media disks, at least on the DVD where there is enough space available for them.

The bug number 1 is related with the EXISTENCE of b43-fwcutter and ndiswrapper, not with the choice to have them available only for download and not on the media. The choice to have them available only for download is a result of a flawed license for the former, but it was just a (wrong) choice for the latter. I hope that at least this one will be fixed.

Regards,
;Davide

Tina Russell (tinarussell) wrote :
  • unnamed Edit (701 bytes, text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1)

Well, it does, kinda. Dereck probably meant that the problem is specifically
Broadcom's reticence on releasing open-source drivers for its wireless
cards, which has to do with Microsoft's massive clout compared to our
homegrown operation (though we have something that Microsoft does not, which
is a massive army of enthusiastic volunteers). Because Broadcom sees PCs as
being "Windows" and nothing else, they don't see Linux as a market worth
serving (if they see it at all). We must change that... part of that is
politely asking Broadcom to serve a leading-edge niche market, and part of
that is making Ubuntu so good that not even Microsoft's incumbency can stop
it.

Not a bug, and not a constructive area of conversation.
Dependant on bug #1 - marking Invalid.

davide (davide-del-vento) wrote :

Teej, you are right, this is not a bug, as I wrote in the first line of my report.

But, besides the unconstructiveness of the conversation (please don't blame me for that), this is a serious aspect of usability, and it depends on bug#1 only for b43-fwcutter.
IMHO ndiswrapper must be included in the CDROM, because it is obvious that on certain hardware you cannot get network connectivity without it (and without network connectivity you cannot download it as well).

I am not blaming anyone just stating the obvious :)
I totally agree ndiswrapper should be included on the LiveCD and the default installation to save problems later.
The best place for proposing ideas and getting the community and developers interested and involved is at the Ubuntu Brainstorm http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ then everyone can vote on it and eventually get in into (hopefully) 9.10 :)
Good luck!

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