"System" -> "Help and support" entry's French translation should be enhanced

Reported by Milan Bouchet-Valat on 2007-08-28
6
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
gnome-menus
Unknown
Medium
Ubuntu
Low
Ubuntu French Translators
language-pack-gnome-fr (Ubuntu)
Undecided
Unassigned

Bug Description

Binary package hint: gnome-menus

"System" -> "Help and support" menu entry in the main panel is badly worded. The current phrasing "Aide et support" is not correct, "support" should better be translated by "assistance", to avoid using an abusive anglicism. The French word "assistance" is furthermore better to explain to the user that he can be directly helped by people, whereas "support" is quite an idle term and rarely used in French.

I think this should be discussed be the French translators team. Thanks guys for all your great work, don't spoil it because of little horrible strings!

Changed in gnome-menus:
assignee: nobody → ubuntu-l10n-fr
Alexandre Franke (afranke) wrote :

I think this is an upstream bug and should be fixed by the French GNOME translation team.

Sebastien Bacher (seb128) wrote :

that's not right, "support technique" is quite common in french, and "aide et assistance" looks weird

Changed in gnome-menus:
importance: Undecided → Low
status: New → Invalid

how do i get removed from here i don't know anything about this stuff and don't need to get these emails . thanks for your time...please remove me thank you

> From: <email address hidden>> To: <email address hidden>> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:42:29 +0000> Subject: [Bug 135310] Re: "System" -> "Help and support" entry's French translation should be enhanced> > that's not right, "support technique" is quite common in french, and> "aide et assistance" looks weird> > ** Changed in: yelp (Ubuntu)> Sourcepackagename: gnome-menus => yelp> Importance: Undecided => Low> Status: New => Invalid> > -- > "System" -> "Help and support" entry's French translation should be enhanced> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/135310> You received this bug notification because you are a bug contact for> yelp in ubuntu.
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Yes, "Aide et assisstance" is an heavy formulation, repetitve and not very nice to hear.

Perhaps using the word "Entraide" ? It would be more ubuntu-ish.

On 8/28/07, Nicolas Robin <email address hidden> wrote:
> Yes, "Aide et assisstance" is an heavy formulation, repetitve and not
> very nice to hear.
>
> --
> "System" -> "Help and support" entry's French translation should be enhanced
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/135310
> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
> French Translators, which is a bug assignee.
>
> --
> Ubuntu-fr-l10n mailing list
> <email address hidden>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-fr-l10n
>

--
Pierre
<email address hidden>

Changed in gnome-menus:
status: Unknown → Invalid
Milan Bouchet-Valat (nalimilan) wrote :

I'd like this point to be discussed more. I agree 'assistance' or 'entraide' may be heavy formulations. But 'support technique' is already an anglicism, used almost only by computer companies and the like; in no other case in French, support means 'help', but rather 'basement', etc. I thought free software, and especially Ubuntu were concerned about preserving the language diversity, and I think this starts here, in being careful with the most current wordings (in Quebec, these strings are always rephrased to new French forms). I'm not an old-fashioned grammarian, but only somebody that wants to use the normal language, and not this computer jargon in the most current tasks.

This sentence is added by an Ubuntu patch to GNOME, so it's here that we may discuss it. Please consider more this.

Sebastien Bacher (seb128) wrote :

the bug tracker is not the right place for discussion, you rather want to try the <email address hidden> mailing list. Do you have any suggestion on better wording? You mention that "support technique" is used in computer environment, but Ubuntu is an operating system and when you are using it you are using a computer and several people will understand that better than "aide et entraide" (which really looks ugly)

I'm agree that in most cases, "support" is an ugly Anglicism and it should be translated by "prise en charge", "gestion", "assistance", depending on the context. But, IMHO, "support" could be acceptable here for these reasons :
- menus items have to be short, and it's hard to find something that is not wordy, maybe "aide et soutien"... ;
- according to Sebastien "support technique "is commonly used in French, you can consider that's a mistake, but you also can consider that's an evolution of the language ;
- in French dictionaries (http://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/support, for instance); this is not the usual meaning of "support", but it used to be (etymology).

For further discussion, please use the mailing list (you have to subscribe, if you want to post here) : <email address hidden>
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-fr-l10n

Milan Bouchet-Valat (nalimilan) wrote :

OK, I just wanted to be sure you had thought about this translation and that was not a mistake. Since you've considered it carefully, I've nothing more to say. ;-)
"Aide et soutien" would have been more Ubuntu-ish and self-explaining, but can live with the current translation. Thanks for your answers, and keep up the good work! Do you want me to continue the discussion on the mailing list anyway?

Changed in gnome-menus:
status: New → In Progress

I'm totally agree for "Aide et soutien", changes committed for Feisty and Gutsy.

Changed in gnome-panel:
status: In Progress → Fix Committed
Changed in gnome-panel:
status: Fix Committed → Fix Released
ringo60 (jeapaq) wrote :

Sorry i don t speak french
> ** Changed in: language-pack-gnome-fr (Ubuntu)
> Sourcepackagename: gnome-panel => language-pack-gnome-fr
> Status: Fix Committed => Fix Released
>
>

gazel (joel-gazel) wrote :

je crains que le ver ne soit pas près de quitter le fruit ... alors à quand la prise en main de notre destin en Français. une fois pour toutes.

pourquoi ne pas contacter les organisations comme " l'allliance Française" ou sa rivale "France for ever" si elles existent toujours ?

<email address hidden>.

Changed in gnome-menus:
importance: Unknown → Medium
status: Invalid → Unknown
affects: yelp (Ubuntu) → ubuntu
Jean-Dominique (ubuntu-delyon) wrote :

Pour ajouter une petite pierre à l'édifice...
Il est vrai que "support" est un barbarisme : Je reconnais que certaines équipes de foot sont dures à supporter, mais cela ne s'applique pas aux programmes informatiques.
De même que la "maintenance" s'applique aux opérations destinées à maintenir les troupes en état d'agir, durant les campagnes militaires.

Je proposerais donc bien "Aide et accompagnement", voire "Aide et soutien" qui est plus proche du concept anglais, mais cela risque de choquer.

Peut-être nos amis du Québec, auraient-ils une bonne idée...

Le jeudi 16 septembre 2010 à 12:40 +0000, Jean-Dominique a écrit :
> Pour ajouter une petite pierre à l'édifice...
> Il est vrai que "support" est un barbarisme : Je reconnais que certaines équipes de foot sont dures à supporter, mais cela ne s'applique pas aux programmes informatiques.
> De même que la "maintenance" s'applique aux opérations destinées à maintenir les troupes en état d'agir, durant les campagnes militaires.
>
> Je proposerais donc bien "Aide et accompagnement", voire "Aide et
> soutien" qui est plus proche du concept anglais, mais cela risque de
> choquer.
>
> Peut-être nos amis du Québec, auraient-ils une bonne idée...
Ce bogue a été corrigé il y a déjà très longtemps. En fait, s'il a été w
réveillé », c'est que Launchpad est en train de mettre à jour avec un
énorme retard les « remote bug watches ».

Si tu jettes un œil à ton écran, on utilise déjà « Aide et soutien »
actuellement. ;-)

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