I agree with Bob Wallum. I'm from México and this bug is big here too. I can't really talk for all my country, but in my state is awful. You go to a store and all you can see is mocosoft everywhere. The small stores sold "win" illegal copies like candy. All of this assembled pcs come whit this virus (mocosoft) and the worst is that the owners of the store most of time don't know how to use this toy even in the "easy tasks". So, according to Bob, and i know most of you will not be very satisfied, but i think is the truth (ok, 75% of the truth). Most people run their computers to play games, of course there exist another virus (consoles) which most kids use, but i'm talking about teenagers near the adult face. For years i decide not to move to GNU (even if i tried) just because of the damn games. Of course i tried to make dual boot, but in that time my hard disk were to small. Now that's not a problem. Games is a great launch vault just because you are getting people who cares, even if they are kids, which i think it's the best part. Most of you who are trying to educate adult's and just think in adults, will fail. Remember the phrase: the kids are the future. Don't try to make ubuntu #1 in OS to happen in the next 2 years, that not gonna be a purpose but a dream. We need to start thinking in future if we really want to advance. Games are a great idea just because if you can hit the young people, they will stick with the system. Most adults doesn't really want to know how to change to a better OS but just jubilate and get a long vacation. Most secretaries don't care if the GNU will make their job efficient. Most owners of companies don't want their workers to think, but to make right the day's job. So i think most people is getting the picture just so wrong. Of course few business man want the best of the OS installed on theirs worker's pcs. Of course some secretaries want to do the job right, of course few people want to be better, but like in the first post in this bug #1, like Alexandru say, most don't (he said this in stronger words, well, not stronger for me). So think in the popular first if you want to make a good advantage over the competitor, over the corrupts and the lamers who release defective software (and now hardware). I know popular is not a popular word in the GNU world, but damn, is the best way to grown fast JUST DON'T MISS THE WAY like the popular word can corrupt everything, but i know this enormous community will not make that mistake. GAMES, MUSIC, VIDEO SYSTEMS (we really need a good one here), CHATS, BLUETOOTH, OFFICE, and a great compatibility and hardware detection must be the prime priorities to grown, of course, may not be the best, but just think in the next question: Which are the software your neighbors use every day? .I give 10 points to Beryl, compiz and the new Metisse for their efforts to make a lot of innovative work for the desktop and the 3D environment. some disagree with the popularity they are gaining but man, you can see the 3D Desktop fever <--- still don't trust in my idea?, this is the prove it can work. .I agree to not carry proprietary software with the Faisty Fawn, i don't like the idea of compiz in it, i think beryl is best, but even that, compiz in Feisty Fawn (at least till today) isn't easy to make it run for the common user <--- -10 points for this. I have another idea, it's not common but i think it'll work a little for the effort. I and a friend will be mounting a site of cute girls of and for my state (later for my country). I'm planning to give Ubuntu a lot of publicity as also another GNUs communities, organizations and softwares (Ubuntu will be the #1 priority, you'll see). I even plan to take shots of the girls to make Ubuntu's wallpapers so any user can download it. Honestly this is not a project thinking of ubuntu, but why not to give ubuntu the chance to be in my project?. Of course i'm going to make a really nice ubuntu site with videos of the beryl desktop and a lot of info and links to resources. The point is, why don't you make something like that?, of course i'm not saying you to do the same, but something similar. I think ubuntu by it's own can't do the job of exterminate bug #1, but they are out there a lot of things that can give it a hand. The one of obtaining the support from a big company like Dell sounds damn good and i think is another good way to fight for. Thanks towsonu2003 for the links. Do a really popular of most to see project for the common people and put Ubuntu next to it, i think this is a great way to grow the community, spread the word. I can spent all the day giving ideas, but damn, i have to work. So view my profile later or contact me if you like some this ideas and let's see if i could be of use for this great community (i hope i can). "to beat mocosoft you need to be best, more popular, affordable, friendly, easy and crazy..." I think the fail is in the popularity and a little in the friendly too. Let's work mates! -------------------------------------- César Rubén Red Spider http://www.redspi.com Mail redspicom at redspi dot com Messengers cesar.ruben at yahoo