Improve tagging interface

[antistress]

1°) Something i don't find to be practical at all in phraymd current releases is Tag Mode. I don't find it intuitive at all.
I think that the good way to tag is to use the Tag Selected button.
Tick tags, select images (in any order) and click on the Tag Selected button.
That's great.
But Tag Mode add confusion : it's nbot easy to understand the way it work.
Besides, why having 2 way of tagging ?
And tag removing is available through the contextual menu.
-> i suggest to remove Tag Mode and to only keep the Tag Selected button

2°) Selecting a tag in the side pane should not hide other tags or user may wander : "Hey, where are my tags ?! How can i select another tag to display another set of images ?"
Letting all tags visible is more convenient for browsing images
-> when selecting a tag, i suggest to not hide other tags
see mockups below
the 1st shows all images without any tag selected, the 2nd shows only images tagged with "red"
Note that all tags remain visible, to allow user to easily select images tagged with "green" or "blue"
(as a bonus, i've made some other changes to the GUI in mockups that could be taken into account in the future)

3°) Maybe a little detail : i didn't find how to add a category that would not be a subcategory of Favorites (i'd like to add a category of the same level as Favorites or Other)
Besides Favorites offers a contextual menu whereas Other not

4°) What is "Remove Image" for (in tags contextual menu) ?

[antistress (antistress)]

Concerning 4°) i've finally understood what "Remove Image" is for in tags contextual menu (=remove the image set for the tag in the tag tree view)
Maybe the label could be more precise ?

[antistress (antistress)]

(besides the "Remove Image" option is displayed in contextual menu even if no image has been set for that tag !)

[dmoore (damien-moore)]

I agree with pretty much everything you say.

> 1. Something i don't find to be practical at all in phraymd current releases is Tag Mode.

This was something of an experiment to see if I would use the feature if it was available. I agree it's not that useful.

> 2. Selecting a tag in the side pane should not hide other tags or user may wander : "Hey, where are my tags ?! How can i select another tag to display another set of images ?"

Mostly Agree. Keep in mind that If all of the users tags are moved to favorites, they won't disappear.

To retain tags all of the time just means keeping track of more stuff and is slightly annoying to implement so I've been putting it off.

Currently the tag interface shows:

+Favorite
 +friends (20)
 +family (35)
 +etc
+Other
 +home (3)
 +holiday (10)

When I start keeping track of all tags, this will become

+Favorites
 +friends (20/30)
 +family (35/50)
 +etc
+Other
 +home (3/3)
 +holiday (10/11)

where the first number is the number in the view, and the second number is the number in the collection. I can also use the color coding you suggest.

> (as a bonus, i've made some other changes to the GUI in mockups that could be taken into account in the future)

some nice ideas. using a notebook sidebar for all the "add-on" features does make some sense. The only issue is if you want the user to be able to see panes simultaneously (e.g. drag from map to tag pane to associated a location with a tag). I guess the pages could be detached and become independent windows.

> 3°) Maybe a little detail : i didn't find how to add a category that would not be a subcategory of Favorites (i'd like to add a category of the same level as Favorites or Other). Besides Favorites offers a contextual menu whereas Other not

This is all intentional. The tags in Favorites (as well as their organization and associated icons) are stored persistently, the tags in Other are not. I would need to think about whether it makes sense to change it and how to implement.

>4°) "Remove Image"?

yes, needs to be fixed

[antistress (antistress)]

Many thanks for your answer

"2. Selecting a tag in the side pane should not hide other tags"
i see the tag pane as a way to browse my pictures and it's not convenient to see my browsing tool amputated when i make use of it !

I don't like that Favorites/Other idea
I'd like something configurable by the user
i'd like to be able to create my own categories (even if phraymd may offer a predefined set of usual categories at startup) : friends, place, events... and to always keep them on hand to be able to browse my pictures by tags

"using a notebook sidebar for all the "add-on" features does make some sense. The only issue is if you want the user to be able to see panes simultaneously (e.g. drag from map to tag pane to associated a location with a tag). I guess the pages could be detached and become independent windows."
i wasn't aware it was possible
Then forget my suggestion, it would not be convenient at all.

[dmoore (damien-moore)]

>I don't like that Favorites/Other idea

I think you may be missing the reason for the distinction. Lets suppose you add a new set of photos that have been tagged with some other program with the tag "rock concert". When you start up phraymd, if the "rock concert" tag isn't in your favorites it will automatically show up in "other". The purpose of "other" is to not disturb your existing organization when new pre-tagged photos are added.

I can get rid of the favorites, though it seems logical to me to put all of the users tags under a single branch to make it clear these tags are stored session to session (even if no photos in the collection contain the tags)

I don't see that it makes sense to get rid of an "other" category for unallocated tags (maybe it should be named something else, but that's a different issue). Where is the program supposed to dump new tags? (one alternative would be to have a second pane below the first containing the unallocated tags.

>I'd like something configurable by the user
>i'd like to be able to create my own categories (even if phraymd may offer a predefined set of usual categories at startup)
>: friends, place, events... and to always keep them on hand to be able to browse my pictures by tags"

yes, you can do all of this now under favorites. you can nest as many categories as you like there. the only issue is that you want to be able to work from the root of the tree and not just favorites.

>i wasn't aware it was possible
>Then forget my suggestion, it would not be convenient at all.

It isn't possible yet, but will be.

[antistress (antistress)]

indeed i missed that : now i can see clearly that Favorites/Other idea is fine !

Then, to sum up things, the remaining things for me would be
- Get rid of Tag Mode
- Selecting a tag in the side pane should not hide other tags
- rename unclear "Remove Image" entry in tags contextual menu
- Preset subcategories for the favorites tag category to help beginners (Friends, Place, Events...) like xdg-user-dirs in GNOME (Documents, Download, Music, Pictures, Public, Templates, Videos)

[dmoore (damien-moore)]

I agree on the above four points.

In addition:

* when renaming a tag, should prompt user to apply the change to all images in the collection
* when deleting a tag, should prompt user to delete the tag from all images in the collection
* after changing tags, the image counts in the tag pane should be updated

[antistress (antistress)]

ok, get to work now and let me know when it's done ;-)

[antistress (antistress)]

"using a notebook sidebar for all the "add-on" features does make some sense. The only issue is if you want the user to be able to see panes simultaneously (e.g. drag from map to tag pane to associated a location with a tag). I guess the pages could be detached and become independent windows."

Maybe we could keep the tab idea but only for "the browsing pane" that could gather tags, dates...
It would allow user to browse its photos by tags or dates (or folders or whatever you want)

To sum up, there would be 2 sidebars :
One for Map features
The other for Browsing features, with multiple tabs : tags, dates...

what do you think ?

[dmoore (damien-moore)]

>To sum up, there would be 2 sidebars :
>One for Map features
>The other for Browsing features, with multiple tabs : tags, dates...
>what do you think ?

It would also be possible to just have two sidebars and allow the user to
have whatever they want in each one. Alternatively, have one notebooked
sidebar with the option to undock pages and have them float as "always on
top" windows. I definitely like the idea of organizing into notebooks
because this will better support feature extensibility via plugins (without
a notebook it wouldn't take many plugins that offer panes to start
cluttering the interface).

So, let me think about it. I'm currently in the process of refactoring the
browser code and making it into a somewhat independent widget (i.e. the
browser is the thumbnail display + scrollbar + backend collection manager,
which is distinct from toolbars, status bars, panes etc). When I'm done with
this I'll be able to start playing with the notebook idea and all of the
other features on the ever-growing todo list.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:45 AM, antistress <email address hidden>wrote:

> "using a notebook sidebar for all the "add-on" features does make some
> sense. The only issue is if you want the user to be able to see panes
> simultaneously (e.g. drag from map to tag pane to associated a location
> with a tag). I guess the pages could be detached and become independent
> windows."
>
> Maybe we could keep the tab idea but only for "the browsing pane" that
> could gather tags, dates...
> It would allow user to browse its photos by tags or dates (or folders or
> whatever you want)
>
> To sum up, there would be 2 sidebars :
> One for Map features
> The other for Browsing features, with multiple tabs : tags, dates...
>
> what do you think ?
>
> --
> Improve tagging interface
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/395389
> You received this bug notification because you are a bug assignee.
>

[antistress (antistress)]

antistress : no pictures are displayed when you 1st click a tag (ie. view:tag="Paris") then you click another tag (i.e. view:tag="Sports")

spillz : the "view:" prefix says to do the filter on the current view instead of the whole collection. Thus, after the first double click, you have pictures of Paris. Now double click sports and you should get pictures of Sports and Paris.

antistress : i don't think that is matching the expected behaviour
when i click to Paris 1st, then to Sports, i want to browse my pictures related to Paris first, then those only related to Sports.
Besides the command line only says view:tag="Sports" which doesn't mean Sport & Paris to me ?!

[antistress (antistress)]

in response to c#3 and 4 : for the record, with latest version, a picture can be added to tag by drag'n dropping and removed by clicking on it

[antistress (antistress)]

about c#14 : it's more complex than that, i've filled a separate bug report (Bug #410451)

in response to c#3 and 4 : maybe the "remove image" entry in tag contextual menu could be renamed into "remove tag associated image" or "remove associated image" ?

[antistress (antistress)]

To sum up things, here are the remaining (and new) bugs for this report :

a) rename unclear "Remove Image" entry in tags contextual menu
Maybe the "remove image" entry in tag contextual menu could be renamed into "remove tag associated image" or "remove associated image" ?

b) "renaming tags" entry in tag contextual menu doesn't work (new) & when renaming a tag in sidebar, should prompt user to apply the change to all images in the collection

c) when deleting a tag in sidebar, should prompt user to delete the tag from all images in the collection

d) after changing tags, the image counts in the tag pane should be updated

e) when no picture uses a tag anymore, the tag should be removed from the sidebar

Concerning the below points, i've created separate bugs reports :

no pictures are displayed when you 1st click a tag (ie. view:tag="Paris") then you click another tag (i.e. view:tag="Sports")
> Bug #410467

Preset subcategories for the favorites tag category to help beginners (Friends, Place, Events...) like xdg-user-dirs in GNOME (Documents, Download, Music, Pictures, Public, Templates, Videos)
> Bug #410464

[dmoore (damien-moore)]

>in response to c#3 and 4 : maybe the "remove image" entry in tag
>contextual menu could be renamed into "remove tag associated image" or
>"remove associated image" ?

"remove icon"

or

"remove tag icon"

or

"remove icon for this tag"?

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:12 PM, antistress <email address hidden>wrote:

> about c#14 : it's more complex than that, i've filled a separate bug
> report (Bug #410451)
>
> in response to c#3 and 4 : maybe the "remove image" entry in tag
> contextual menu could be renamed into "remove tag associated image" or
> "remove associated image" ?
>
> --
> Improve tagging interface
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/395389
> You received this bug notification because you are a bug assignee.
>

[antistress (antistress)]

i would say : let's try "remove icon"

[dmoore (damien-moore)]

To sum up things, here are the remaining (and new) bugs for this report :

a) rename unclear "Remove Image" entry in tags contextual menu
Maybe the "remove image" entry in tag contextual menu could be renamed into "remove tag associated image" or "remove associated image" ?

DONE

b) "renaming tags" entry in tag contextual menu doesn't work (new) & when renaming a tag in sidebar, should prompt user to apply the change to all images in the collection

Still need to prompt

c) when deleting a tag in sidebar, should prompt user to delete the tag from all images in the collection

still need to prompt and delete

d) after changing tags, the image counts in the tag pane should be updated

Agree. currently this only happens after refreshing the view (and the collection counts may be wrong)

e) when no picture uses a tag anymore, the tag should be removed from the sidebar

Yes, but should only be automatically removed in the "others" section. Presumably a user that adds a new tag to their favorites doesn't want the program automatically removing it.

[antistress (antistress)]

agree with your last comment (concerning e)

BTW, nice work : there has been recently a lot a cool fixes in lp:phraymd :)

[dmoore (damien-moore)]

going back to the original report:

>1°) Something i don't find to be practical at all in
>phraymd current releases is Tag Mode.

interesting that this is on the F-Spot todo list:

"Add click to tag mode in the tag assignment. This should be act like an
editing mode where the cursor changes to an icon of the tag and every image
you click gets that tag applied. "
http://f-spot.org/To_Do

[antistress (antistress)]

i didn't find it was practical at all but maybe you should gather different opinions on that point

[antistress (antistress)]

not only i find it unintuitive but also i didn't see what were the advantages of this mode
What are the expected advantages of this mode ?
Since it adds a 2nd way to tag with its own logical (assuming that it will not be a replacement to the current mode ?) , it may certainly be confusing therefore it should provide big advantages to be worth it

[antistress (antistress)]

"inintuitive" : i meant my workflow is more about selecting photos to tag them than selecting first a tag and then photos

[antistress (antistress)]

Summary update

here are the remaining (and new) bugs for this report :

A)
>>> spillz said : d) after changing tags, the image counts in the tag pane should be updated
>> spillz said : Agree. currently this only happens after refreshing the view (and the collection counts may be wrong)
> antistress said : i'm not sure to understand the point therefore i've copied it out
i don't know if it's related but when i add a tag it doesn't show up in the tag pane until i restart phraymd

B)
>>> antistress said : e) when no picture uses a tag anymore, the tag should be removed from the sidebar
>> spillz said : Yes, but should only be automatically removed in the "others" section. Presumably a user that adds a new tag to their favorites doesn't want the program automatically removing it.
> antistress said : At present time, when no picture uses a tag anymore, the tag is removed from the sidebar even if the tag used to be a categorized one

C) Confirmation dialog box for renaming/deleting a tag (new)
The confirmation dialog box when renaming/deleting a tag doesn't match HIG :
see http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/windows-alert.html.en#alert-button-order
1°) Spacing and Positioning is not good (too much padding)
2°) Button ordering & phrasing are not good. Besides we could assume that only 2 choices (instead of current 3) would be sufficient and finally display :
_________________________________________________________________________
| Do you want to remove the tag %s ? |
| Removing the tag from the pane will also remove it from all images on your collection. |
| | Cancel | | Remove | |
|________________________________________________________________________|

D) Confirmation dialog box for renaming/deleting a tag (new)
The confirmation dialog box when renaming/deleting a tag doesn't work : select a tag, choose "Delete Tag", change your mind and finally answer "no" : the tag disappear still and all (actually it's hidden until next restart)

E) "Edit metadata" window (new)
At present time it's not obvious to set multiple tags : shall i use coma, space...?
Therefore the "Edit metadata" window could be improved if "Tags" label was replaced with "Tags (separated with space)"
We could also imagine that phraymd could be smart enough to remove unnecessary comas but from a psychological point of view user would still feel anxious since he can't guess if he's doing the good way and can't know if phraymd will be comprehensive or not

F) "Edit metadata" window (new)
The "Edit metadata" window doesn't have any control to exit ; only Metacity (title bar) provides a close window.
Above all user can't know if its changes will be taken into account. This also is anxiogenic from a user point of view.
Maybe 2 new buttons (cancel/save) at the bottom of the window could help (and using the cross in the title bar should not save changes)

[antistress (antistress)]

F)
Instant apply windows is also possible but with a Close button at the bottom of the window
http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/windows-utility.html.en#windows-instant-apply

[antistress (antistress)]

concerning A) :
rev 265 says : correctly update the tag counts in the tag plugin after tag changes

"i don't know if it's related but when i add a tag it doesn't show up in the tag pane until i restart phraymd"
Also at 1st lauch, phraymd scans my pictures but no tag is added to the sidebar, i have to close and restart phraymd to see them

[antistress (antistress)]

bug pointed in c#27 is fixed with latest revision (i'm running r.268 and i guess that r.266 solves the problem)

[antistress (antistress)]

when i add a tag i still have to restart phraymd before seeing the new tag in the tag tree

(karmic & rev 294)

[antistress (antistress)]

bug pointed in c#29 is fixed with latest revision (i'm running r.298 and i guess that r.295 solved the problem)

[antistress (antistress)]

Concerning c#25 B) ("when no picture uses a tag anymore, the tag should be removed from the sidebar unless the tag is categorized") : it works perfectly but maybe phraymd could be smart enough to not display the "delete tag" dialog box (1) when user asks for deleting a tag that remains in the tag tree because it is categorized whereas no picture is using it

(1) "would you like to remove the tag "%s" from all images in your collection?"

[antistress (antistress)]

here is he current state of that report (revision 433, tests made with lucid and pyexiv2 0.2.1 from PPA for pyexiv2 developers) :

all is fixed except :

C) Confirmation dialog box for renaming/deleting a tag (new)
The confirmation dialog box when renaming/deleting a tag doesn't match HIG :
see http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/windows-alert.html.en#alert-button-order
1°) Spacing and Positioning is not good (too much padding)
2°) Button ordering & phrasing are not good. Besides we could assume that only 2 choices (instead of current 3) would be sufficient and finally display :
_________________________________________________________________________
| Do you want to remove the tag %s ? |
| Removing the tag from the pane will also remove it from all images on your collection. |
| | Cancel | | Remove | |
|________________________________________________________________________|

D) Confirmation dialog box for renaming/deleting a tag (new)
The confirmation dialog box when renaming/deleting a tag doesn't work : select a tag, choose "Delete Tag", change your mind and finally answer "no" : the tag disappear still and all (actually it's hidden until next restart)

E) "Edit metadata" window (new)
At present time it's not obvious to set multiple tags : shall i use coma, space...?
Therefore the "Edit metadata" window could be improved if "Tags" label was replaced with "Tags (separated with space)"
We could also imagine that phraymd could be smart enough to remove unnecessary comas but from a psychological point of view user would still feel anxious since he can't guess if he's doing the good way and can't know if phraymd will be comprehensive or not

F) "Edit metadata" window (new)
The "Edit metadata" window doesn't have any control to exit ; only Metacity (title bar) provides a close window.
Above all user can't know if its changes will be taken into account. This also is anxiogenic from a user point of view.
Maybe 2 new buttons (cancel/save) at the bottom of the window could help (and using the cross in the title bar should not save changes)
edit : Instant apply windows is also possible but with a Close button at the bottom of the window
http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/windows-utility.html.en#windows-instant-apply

G) when no picture uses a tag anymore, the tag is removed from the sidebar unless the tag is categorized which is fine. But phraymd could be even smarter by not displaying the "delete tag" warning box ( "would you like to remove the tag "%s" from all images in your collection?") when user asks for deleting a tag that remains in the tag tree because it is categorized whereas no picture is using it