InitializeBrakesCommand fails (X2618, ATSF4thDistrict, Escondido Local Steam)

Bug #1392857 reported by Herb Kelsey
12
This bug affects 2 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
Open Rails
Fix Released
Undecided
Unassigned

Bug Description

When switching (shunting) cars and making pickups and setouts it is necessary to move the cars around without brakes being on. In the software, the brakes are set on all loose consists and they cannot be moved without hooking up brake hoses and either 1) waiting for the airlines to charge or 2) hitting the Shift/ key (question mark) to initialize the brakes. This is unprototypical, by the way. More on that later.

The bug is that the "?" key stops working and the brakes become sticky after some time of operation. In the attched log of my Escondid Local Steam activity the InitializeBrakesCommand last worked at 09:23:52.75. Subsequent attempts to use the command were ignored by the software. This fail to function occurs whenever I am running a switch job - my most common activity - on any and all routes with all equipment. It has been discussed before on Elvas Tower, most recently in this thread: http://www.elvastower.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25416-initialize-air-brakes/page__pid__165062#entry165062. The only way to make it work again is to save and return to the activity. Then it will work for a while before it quits again. As mentioned in the ET thread, this problem was there in the software when I started using OR regularly with build 2422 in August.

As mentioned above, the operation of the brakes on loose consists and connect/reconnect operations is unprototypical. With loose consists there should be no air on the cars and the handbrakes should be set. You should be able to pick up any loose consist or any one or more wagons by coupling to them and releasing handbrakes then move them around, switch them into your train or whatever, without ever hooking up the airhoses. Hooking up and pumping up is the last thing you do after you have your train together and are ready to proceed. And when you hook up to cars with air on them, like going back to your original train with a car you have picked up, the brakes should not go into emergency. In the sim you lose all of your trainline air when hooking up and that should not occur.

If the IntializBrakesCommand worked all the time then this unprototypical action can be worked around but since it won't it has become a serious drawback to operation.

Revision history for this message
Herb Kelsey (hkelsey41) wrote :
Revision history for this message
Peter Hendricks (beddhist) wrote :

As described in the ET topic, this problem has been around for at least 6 months.

A further feature of this bug: if you continue shunting with the non-working ?-command then using this key causes the brakes to be disconnected somewhere in the middle of the consist and the handbrakes in the disconnected part are applied. This is evident when the \-command is used.

James Ross (twpol)
summary: - InitializeBrakesCommand Fails
+ InitializeBrakesCommand fails (X2618, ATSF4thDistrict, Escondido Local
+ Steam)
Revision history for this message
Herb Kelsey (hkelsey41) wrote :

As I mentioned in a Post at ET, the real solution for this is to have handbrakes only on set out (loose consist) cars and to be able to move them without hooking up the air hoses. If these prototypical conditions were present in OR we would not have much need for the InitializBrakesCommand.

Revision history for this message
Peter Gulyas (pzgulyas) wrote :

Partially fixed in r2670: The brake force is now forced to zero when the hoses are disconnected.

I haven't looked at why the init command stops working.

Revision history for this message
Herb Kelsey (hkelsey41) wrote : RE: [Bug 1392857] Re: InitializeBrakesCommand fails (X2618, ATSF4thDistrict, Escondido Local Steam)
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OK, yes and no. The handling of loose consists is excellent but apparently having it forced to zero on loose consists also forces it to zero when you disconnect from the train or any portion thereof. If you are on a hill and you nudge the released cars........off they go! And the chase is on! LOL! I tested this on Miramar grade with standard gauge diesel operation (1.05%) and also on at Cresco on Cumbres Pass (4%). The freight car I released from was last seen nearing 100 MPH approaching Lobato. I was attempting to catch it at 81 MPH in a K-36 Mikado with 44" drivers and it was walking away from me as the sim crashed.

I tried setting handbrakes before uncoupling but they apparently released as soon as they were uncoupled.

So somehow, we need to have loose consists with no air and no brakes but there has to be a way to secure the cars when we leave them on a grade, either parking them on the mainline while we go to switch or when spotting them at an industry on a grade. My RGS has some mine tracks that are approaching 5% under the tipples and a few sidings where cars are set out with 3% or greater elevations. This present release, 2670, is not going to work very well there. The cars will remain stationary when you uncouple from them but the slightest nudge, like a slight roll back before pulling away with the engine, and off they go!

I was testing operations at Ophir Loop on the Rio Grande Southern, running an activity that had 8 boxcars in a loose consist on the Ophir siding and the switches on the siding completely refuse to throw. Manual operation. Don't know if it is related to these changes. Switches show red in the switch monitor and will not line. I was trying to do a hook up and unhook with that cut of cars and couldn't do so.

Herb Kelsey
In God We Trust

-----Original Message-----
From: <email address hidden> [mailto:<email address hidden>] On Behalf Of Peter Gulyas
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 1:22 PM
To: <email address hidden>
Subject: [Bug 1392857] Re: InitializeBrakesCommand fails (X2618, ATSF4thDistrict, Escondido Local Steam)

Partially fixed in r2670: The brake force is now forced to zero when the hoses are disconnected.

I haven't looked at why the init command stops working.

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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1392857

Title:
  InitializeBrakesCommand fails (X2618, ATSF4thDistrict, Escondido Local
  Steam)

Status in Open Rails Tracker:
  New

Bug description:
  When switching (shunting) cars and making pickups and setouts it is
  necessary to move the cars around without brakes being on. In the
  software, the brakes are set on all loose consists and they cannot be
  moved without hooking up brake hoses and either 1) waiting for the
  airlines to charge or 2) hitting the Shift/ key (question mark) to
  initialize the brakes. This is unprototypical, by the way. More on
  that later.

  The bug is that the "?" key stops working and the brakes become sticky
  after some time of operation. In the attched log of my Escondid Local
  Steam activity the InitializeBrakesCommand last worked at 09:23:52.75.
  Subsequent attempts to use...

Read more...

Revision history for this message
Peter Gulyas (pzgulyas) wrote :

Changes of r2670 is reverted in r2673.

Revision history for this message
Cédric GNIEWEK (sharpeserana) wrote :

Does the problem still happen with version 1.4?

Changed in or:
status: New → Incomplete
Revision history for this message
Cédric GNIEWEK (sharpeserana) wrote :

Fixed in 1.3.1 (feedback by PM)

Changed in or:
status: Incomplete → Fix Released
James Ross (twpol)
Changed in or:
milestone: none → 1.3.1
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