Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes

Bug #1391449 reported by Gerald Saunders on 2014-11-11
10
This bug affects 2 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
Open Rails
Undecided
Unassigned

Bug Description

Hi,
In accordance with real-life practice, many MSTS models of steam locos with a Great Western Railway origin require the Small Injector to be open in order to release the brakes. This is not, currently, included within Open Rails with the result that it not possible to satisfactorily drive these locos. I say "satisfactorily" because after a comparatively long time (2 minutes), the brakes do release. This is shown at the top left of the OR screen against the Train brake entry where, when the value of inHg reaches 19, the loco starts to move (the maximum for this value is 25, which was the standard pressure for GWR locos). Typically, MSTS takes just over 1 second to release the brakes once the Small Injector is opened. When running in MSTS, the Small Injector is closed to conserve steam; the brakes can be applied normally when it is closed.

For testing this, a suitable freeware loco is available from the UKTS file library, as file ID 28517 (RF_BR_78xx_7812); it also requires the GWR Sound Set (file ID 6481) which is automatically installed in the common.sound folder. This loco was selected because it starts with the Small Injector closed and the brakes on.

Although the non-functioning of keys H J and K is covered in bug 372867, no detail was provided

Regards,
Ged

Dennis A T (dennisat) wrote :

There is actually a temporary patch to get round this, hence the fact that the brakes do eventually release.
What happens is that the code provides for the brakes to release when the controller is set to "Running". The problem is that the "Running" sector, like the "Apply" sector works from 0% to 100% in the same direction. Therefore, if you go to full "Running" (0%), if that's not a confusing statement, which is the natural "stop" when you move the brakes to release, the patch releases the brakes at a near zero rate. The "Running" sector of the brake controller is so small on these locos that you move from 100% to 0% in a blink of an eye. When releasing the brakes, if you try to stop the controller AS SOON AS IT ENTERS the "Running" sector (you'll see the percent "Running" when you lift your finger off the key), the brakes will release at a more realistic rate. You often have to juggle back and forth to get near the 100% "Running", the best release rate.

I have a personal patch which gets round this problem, I haven't volunteered it because I've assumed that the Injector controls will eventually be implemented.

Download full text (3.2 KiB)

Hi Dennis,Thanks for your very prompt reply!I'll give your suggestion a try, but it would be preferable if coding for the small injector was included in Open Rails. I'll keep my fingers crossed :)
Regards,Ged

> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:16:58 +0000
> From: <email address hidden>
> To: <email address hidden>
> Subject: [Bug 1391449] Re: Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> There is actually a temporary patch to get round this, hence the fact that the brakes do eventually release.
> What happens is that the code provides for the brakes to release when the controller is set to "Running". The problem is that the "Running" sector, like the "Apply" sector works from 0% to 100% in the same direction. Therefore, if you go to full "Running" (0%), if that's not a confusing statement, which is the natural "stop" when you move the brakes to release, the patch releases the brakes at a near zero rate. The "Running" sector of the brake controller is so small on these locos that you move from 100% to 0% in a blink of an eye. When releasing the brakes, if you try to stop the controller AS SOON AS IT ENTERS the "Running" sector (you'll see the percent "Running" when you lift your finger off the key), the brakes will release at a more realistic rate. You often have to juggle back and forth to get near the 100% "Running", the best release rate.
>
> I have a personal patch which gets round this problem, I haven't
> volunteered it because I've assumed that the Injector controls will
> eventually be implemented.
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1391449
>
> Title:
> Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Status in Open Rails Tracker:
> New
>
> Bug description:
> Hi,
> In accordance with real-life practice, many MSTS models of steam locos with a Great Western Railway origin require the Small Injector to be open in order to release the brakes. This is not, currently, included within Open Rails with the result that it not possible to satisfactorily drive these locos. I say "satisfactorily" because after a comparatively long time (2 minutes), the brakes do release. This is shown at the top left of the OR screen against the Train brake entry where, when the value of inHg reaches 19, the loco starts to move (the maximum for this value is 25, which was the standard pressure for GWR locos). Typically, MSTS takes just over 1 second to release the brakes once the Small Injector is opened. When running in MSTS, the Small Injector is closed to conserve steam; the brakes can be applied normally when it is closed.
>
> For testing this, a suitable freeware loco is available from the UKTS
> file library, as file ID 28517 (RF_BR_78xx_7812); it also requires the
> GWR Sound Set (file ID 6481) which is automatically installed in the
> common.sound folder. This loco was selected because it starts with
> the Small Injector closed and the brakes on.
>
> Although the non-functioning of keys H J and K is covered in bug
> 372867, no detail was provided
>
> Regards,
> Ged
>
> To manage notifications about this bug g...

Read more...

Dennis A T (dennisat) wrote :

Just a thought, but I have a couple of vacuum brake patches for my personal use which I think improves the driveability of most vacuum braked steam locos. Since very few OR users or developers know (or care) about vacuum brakes I wonder if you would like to try them and give your opinion? If I could be confident that the patches were actually an improvement, I would put them up for inclusion in the official OR releases.

Dennis

Gerald Saunders (saunderby) wrote :

Hi Dennis,Yes, I'd be pleased to check them out for you :) I am very UK steam loco biased, which, as you probably know, are mainly vacuum braked!!
The only problem is, if you don't supply me with a complete Open Rails program, I've no idea how to incorporate your patches!
If you DO supply the complete executable, then I've no problem in keeping it completely separate to all others.
Regards,Ged

Dennis A T (dennisat) wrote :

Hi Ged,

Attached is my test version of RunActivity based on V2649. You should install V2649 before using my test programs.

I believe my system is clean but PLEASE treat these programs as suspiciously as you would any others from unknown sources. They are not endorsed by the OR developers in any way.

I believe you should see improvements in brake response on long trains (V2 Mail on SCP, for instance).
The problem with Injector released brakes should also be dodged; you should be able to move the controller straight from apply to the "Stop" in the "Running" sector and get the best release rate.

Some of the slow brake responses seem to be due to eng file settings. I've seen release rates of 2inHg/sec specified which means it's going to take at least 10 seconds to go from brake full on to off. This may be prototypical but MSTS seems to act much faster than that, OR tries to follow the parameters exactly.

For steam testing, if you use SCP, S&D, WSR, SVR or Swanage I should be able to reproduce any problems you find.

Dennis

Gerald Saunders (saunderby) wrote :
Download full text (4.0 KiB)

Hi Dennis,As I reported this as a bug concerning locos which required the use of the Small Injector to release the brakes, my first test only used such locos.As such, this is my initial report.I used the Bala Hub route because it has a good selection of GWR/exGWR locos - I know it's not on your list! I tested using MSTS, ORTS X2647 and X2649. Of the 15 lsuitable locos in this route, 9 used the Small Injector.The average time between pressing the <;> key and the loco beginning to move :MSTS : 10 seconds (Small Injector already opened) (ranged between 9.0 and 11.9 seconds)X2647 : 42.5 seconds (ranged between 33.0 and 48.6 seconds)X2649 : 5.0 seconds (ranged between 3.5 and 6.0 seconds, although the 3.5 loco was an outstanding exception!)
For my next report, I'll select GWR/exGWR locos from other sources. I'll also include some other vacuum-braked locos to test their performance.
Well done for this effort!! Although it might now be too quick for the purists!
Regards,Ged

> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 09:29:37 +0000
> From: <email address hidden>
> To: <email address hidden>
> Subject: [Bug 1391449] Re: Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Hi Ged,
>
> Attached is my test version of RunActivity based on V2649. You should
> install V2649 before using my test programs.
>
> I believe my system is clean but PLEASE treat these programs as
> suspiciously as you would any others from unknown sources. They are not
> endorsed by the OR developers in any way.
>
> I believe you should see improvements in brake response on long trains (V2 Mail on SCP, for instance).
> The problem with Injector released brakes should also be dodged; you should be able to move the controller straight from apply to the "Stop" in the "Running" sector and get the best release rate.
>
> Some of the slow brake responses seem to be due to eng file settings.
> I've seen release rates of 2inHg/sec specified which means it's going to
> take at least 10 seconds to go from brake full on to off. This may be
> prototypical but MSTS seems to act much faster than that, OR tries to
> follow the parameters exactly.
>
> For steam testing, if you use SCP, S&D, WSR, SVR or Swanage I should be
> able to reproduce any problems you find.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
> ** Attachment added: "RunActivity.zip"
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/or/+bug/1391449/+attachment/4261721/+files/RunActivity.zip
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1391449
>
> Title:
> Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Status in Open Rails Tracker:
> New
>
> Bug description:
> Hi,
> In accordance with real-life practice, many MSTS models of steam locos with a Great Western Railway origin require the Small Injector to be open in order to release the brakes. This is not, currently, included within Open Rails with the result that it not possible to satisfactorily drive these locos. I say "satisfactorily" because after a comparatively long time (2 minutes), the brakes do release. This is shown at the top left of the OR screen against the Train brake entry where, when the value of inHg reaches 19...

Read more...

Gerald Saunders (saunderby) wrote :
Download full text (4.3 KiB)

Hi Dennis,I have tested some more locos, including 4 in the SCP route. The results aren't so dramatic as with the GWR/Small Injector/ Brakes locos, but are an improvement on X2647!I can see the problem the team are having - there are so many different permutations of eng file parameters being used to overcome some of the deficiencies of MSTS. One of the locos - 46239 - seems to run a lot better under your modded X2649 than it does under MSTS, but there you go!!
I ran part of the V2 Mail on the SCP route and found that the time to fully release the brakes was much better with your version than it with X2647, although still longer than MSTS, but it's only 10 seconds. Braking from speed was very much better under yours than X2647.
You definitely seem to have solved the original problem I reported and in the process, have also improved the performance of other steam locos.
There are several other issues with OR, but one over which you may have some influence is to stop the "chuffing" when the regulator is closed. From some videos I've seen, US locos seem to do this, but they don't in the UK!!
Please let me know if I can be of any further help, but I thank you for allowing me to test this for you :)
Regards,Ged

> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 09:29:37 +0000
> From: <email address hidden>
> To: <email address hidden>
> Subject: [Bug 1391449] Re: Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Hi Ged,
>
> Attached is my test version of RunActivity based on V2649. You should
> install V2649 before using my test programs.
>
> I believe my system is clean but PLEASE treat these programs as
> suspiciously as you would any others from unknown sources. They are not
> endorsed by the OR developers in any way.
>
> I believe you should see improvements in brake response on long trains (V2 Mail on SCP, for instance).
> The problem with Injector released brakes should also be dodged; you should be able to move the controller straight from apply to the "Stop" in the "Running" sector and get the best release rate.
>
> Some of the slow brake responses seem to be due to eng file settings.
> I've seen release rates of 2inHg/sec specified which means it's going to
> take at least 10 seconds to go from brake full on to off. This may be
> prototypical but MSTS seems to act much faster than that, OR tries to
> follow the parameters exactly.
>
> For steam testing, if you use SCP, S&D, WSR, SVR or Swanage I should be
> able to reproduce any problems you find.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
> ** Attachment added: "RunActivity.zip"
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/or/+bug/1391449/+attachment/4261721/+files/RunActivity.zip
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1391449
>
> Title:
> Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Status in Open Rails Tracker:
> New
>
> Bug description:
> Hi,
> In accordance with real-life practice, many MSTS models of steam locos with a Great Western Railway origin require the Small Injector to be open in order to release the brakes. This is not, currently, included within Open Rails with the result that it not possible to satisfa...

Read more...

Dennis A T (dennisat) wrote :

Thanks very much for the tests, Ged. I'll now review my patches to see if they interfere with anything else. I know that one doesn't simulate "reality" properly and its action may be affected by too much by the power of the PC that it's run on.

By the way, steam locos chuffing with closed regulator has been reported by Bug #1393270.

Gerald Saunders (saunderby) wrote :

Hi Dennis,Glad to be of help :)Thanks for the heads-up regarding "chuffing"!
Regards,Ged

Dennis A T (dennisat) wrote :

Hi Ged,

I've noticed that release 2668 has removed any capability at all for braking from the "Running" notch. Also, release 2676 has seriously interfered with my rate of brake application patch. I'll have to rework them. It shouldn't be a great problem but it'll probably take me a few days.

Dennis

Gerald Saunders (saunderby) wrote :

Hi Dennis,Thanks for the update.Your first sentence has me slightly puzzled, but I'm not a steam expert!When driving a steam loco in MSTS, the recommendation has always been to set the brakes to "Running" after they have been released, to conserve steam.
Regards,Ged

> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 13:12:11 +0000
> From: <email address hidden>
> To: <email address hidden>
> Subject: [Bug 1391449] Re: Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Hi Ged,
>
> I've noticed that release 2668 has removed any capability at all for
> braking from the "Running" notch. Also, release 2676 has seriously
> interfered with my rate of brake application patch. I'll have to rework
> them. It shouldn't be a great problem but it'll probably take me a few
> days.
>
> Dennis
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1391449
>
> Title:
> Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Status in Open Rails Tracker:
> New
>
> Bug description:
> Hi,
> In accordance with real-life practice, many MSTS models of steam locos with a Great Western Railway origin require the Small Injector to be open in order to release the brakes. This is not, currently, included within Open Rails with the result that it not possible to satisfactorily drive these locos. I say "satisfactorily" because after a comparatively long time (2 minutes), the brakes do release. This is shown at the top left of the OR screen against the Train brake entry where, when the value of inHg reaches 19, the loco starts to move (the maximum for this value is 25, which was the standard pressure for GWR locos). Typically, MSTS takes just over 1 second to release the brakes once the Small Injector is opened. When running in MSTS, the Small Injector is closed to conserve steam; the brakes can be applied normally when it is closed.
>
> For testing this, a suitable freeware loco is available from the UKTS
> file library, as file ID 28517 (RF_BR_78xx_7812); it also requires the
> GWR Sound Set (file ID 6481) which is automatically installed in the
> common.sound folder. This loco was selected because it starts with
> the Small Injector closed and the brakes on.
>
> Although the non-functioning of keys H J and K is covered in bug
> 372867, no detail was provided
>
> Regards,
> Ged
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/or/+bug/1391449/+subscriptions

Dennis A T (dennisat) wrote :

Hi Ged,

Attached are test versions of RunActivity based on X3153 and a source patch should you want to see what I've done. What should happen with this patch is that only on locomotives with no Release sector on their brake controller, the Running sector should release the brakes instead.

This is obviously only a stopgap, what is really needed is implementation of the Ejector (Large and Small) controls. I haven't attempted this because I don't have the knowledge to alter the steam locomotive model.

Dennis A T (dennisat) wrote :

Sorry, missed the RunActivity attachment.

Dennis

Gerald Saunders (saunderby) wrote :

Hi Dennis,Many thanks for the revised RunActivity files.You say it's based on X3153 - as my installation is X3145, I'll need to download X3153 separately.
Thanks, also, for the source patch; I'm afraid I'm still in the learning stages of C# and just about muddling through! I assume it's just for my information and I don't have to do anything with it (hopefully!).
I get back to you as soon as I can with my report.
Regards,Ged

Gerald Saunders (saunderby) wrote :

Hi Dennis,X3153 doesn't seem to be available yet, unless I'm looking in the wrong place (https://james-ross.co.uk/projects/or/builds) . The latest is X3152 dated 8/6/2015; I've tried your RunActivity with it but OR freezes - well, I didn't think it would work, but it was worth a try!!
Cheers,Ged

Dennis A T (dennisat) wrote :

Hi Ged,

I'm surprised OR froze, does the log show any useful messages? Attached is a new RunActivity based on X3152.

Dennis

Gerald Saunders (saunderby) wrote :

Hi Dennis,Still no luck, I'm afraid.
I am using the Burton Derby route v2.I re-downloaded X3152 from James' site and tried the route - it runs without any problem.I then downloaded your X3152 RunActivity.exe and RunActivityAA.exe files and replaced the existing files in the X3152 folder.Trying the same route again resulted in several error messages. Screenshots and the OpenRailsLog are attached.
As soon as the route loaded, Screen 1 was displayed, Clicking Screen 1 Abort returned to the Menu screen Clicking Screen 2 Retry got Screen 2 Clicking on Screen 2 Retry freezes OR - sound continues - only way out is via Task Manager Clicking on Screen 2 Cancel resulted in Screen 3, which then gave Screen 4 Clicking Screen 1 Ignore resulted in Screen 5 - clicking OK returned to Menu
Now, it's quite possible I'm doing something wrong! So please let me know :)
Regards,Ged

> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2015 15:15:01 +0000
> From: <email address hidden>
> To: <email address hidden>
> Subject: [Bug 1391449] Re: Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Hi Ged,
>
> I'm surprised OR froze, does the log show any useful messages? Attached
> is a new RunActivity based on X3152.
>
> Dennis
>
> ** Attachment added: "RunActivity.zip"
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/or/+bug/1391449/+attachment/4413979/+files/RunActivity.zip
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1391449
>
> Title:
> Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Status in Open Rails:
> New
>
> Bug description:
> Hi,
> In accordance with real-life practice, many MSTS models of steam locos with a Great Western Railway origin require the Small Injector to be open in order to release the brakes. This is not, currently, included within Open Rails with the result that it not possible to satisfactorily drive these locos. I say "satisfactorily" because after a comparatively long time (2 minutes), the brakes do release. This is shown at the top left of the OR screen against the Train brake entry where, when the value of inHg reaches 19, the loco starts to move (the maximum for this value is 25, which was the standard pressure for GWR locos). Typically, MSTS takes just over 1 second to release the brakes once the Small Injector is opened. When running in MSTS, the Small Injector is closed to conserve steam; the brakes can be applied normally when it is closed.
>
> For testing this, a suitable freeware loco is available from the UKTS
> file library, as file ID 28517 (RF_BR_78xx_7812); it also requires the
> GWR Sound Set (file ID 6481) which is automatically installed in the
> common.sound folder. This loco was selected because it starts with
> the Small Injector closed and the brakes on.
>
> Although the non-functioning of keys H J and K is covered in bug
> 372867, no detail was provided
>
> Regards,
> Ged
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/or/+bug/1391449/+subscriptions

Dennis A T (dennisat) wrote :

Hi Ged,

I'm sure the problem is mine; there must be some difference between my setup and the "Official" one. Could you try this latest RunActivity, if this fails I'll have to go into deep thought.

Dennis

Gerald Saunders (saunderby) wrote :

Hi Dennis,I fear I may have set you on a pointless chase, for which I apologise.
Using Open Rails Stable v1.0 and setting the specified loco as follows :Release Brakes - Running 0%Reverser - 75% ForwardRegulator - 40%after 3 minutes, the loco was sat there, emitting more and more smoke!!Repeating the exercise, but when the brakes were released, pressing the Initialise Brakes key (Shift + /), the loco started in about 5 seconds :)Therefore the problem seems to have been resolved, although is the Initialise Brakes option itself just a temporary work-around?
Using the latest version, X3155, I had very similar results.
Regards,Ged

> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2015 15:15:01 +0000
> From: <email address hidden>
> To: <email address hidden>
> Subject: [Bug 1391449] Re: Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Hi Ged,
>
> I'm surprised OR froze, does the log show any useful messages? Attached
> is a new RunActivity based on X3152.
>
> Dennis
>
> ** Attachment added: "RunActivity.zip"
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/or/+bug/1391449/+attachment/4413979/+files/RunActivity.zip
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1391449
>
> Title:
> Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Status in Open Rails:
> New
>
> Bug description:
> Hi,
> In accordance with real-life practice, many MSTS models of steam locos with a Great Western Railway origin require the Small Injector to be open in order to release the brakes. This is not, currently, included within Open Rails with the result that it not possible to satisfactorily drive these locos. I say "satisfactorily" because after a comparatively long time (2 minutes), the brakes do release. This is shown at the top left of the OR screen against the Train brake entry where, when the value of inHg reaches 19, the loco starts to move (the maximum for this value is 25, which was the standard pressure for GWR locos). Typically, MSTS takes just over 1 second to release the brakes once the Small Injector is opened. When running in MSTS, the Small Injector is closed to conserve steam; the brakes can be applied normally when it is closed.
>
> For testing this, a suitable freeware loco is available from the UKTS
> file library, as file ID 28517 (RF_BR_78xx_7812); it also requires the
> GWR Sound Set (file ID 6481) which is automatically installed in the
> common.sound folder. This loco was selected because it starts with
> the Small Injector closed and the brakes on.
>
> Although the non-functioning of keys H J and K is covered in bug
> 372867, no detail was provided
>
> Regards,
> Ged
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/or/+bug/1391449/+subscriptions

Gerald Saunders (saunderby) wrote :

Hi Dennis,That's it, mate!As soon as the brakes are released, using the ; key, the pressure starts building straight-away and the loco moves after a few seconds - no need to initialise the brakes.
I'll see if I can find any other locos which also use the small injector to release the brakes, give them a test and report back to you.In the meantime, well done :)
Regards,Ged

> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 09:23:08 +0000
> From: <email address hidden>
> To: <email address hidden>
> Subject: [Bug 1391449] Re: Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Hi Ged,
>
> I'm sure the problem is mine; there must be some difference between my
> setup and the "Official" one. Could you try this latest RunActivity, if
> this fails I'll have to go into deep thought.
>
> Dennis
>
> ** Attachment added: "RunActivity.zip"
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/or/+bug/1391449/+attachment/4414189/+files/RunActivity.zip
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1391449
>
> Title:
> Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Status in Open Rails:
> New
>
> Bug description:
> Hi,
> In accordance with real-life practice, many MSTS models of steam locos with a Great Western Railway origin require the Small Injector to be open in order to release the brakes. This is not, currently, included within Open Rails with the result that it not possible to satisfactorily drive these locos. I say "satisfactorily" because after a comparatively long time (2 minutes), the brakes do release. This is shown at the top left of the OR screen against the Train brake entry where, when the value of inHg reaches 19, the loco starts to move (the maximum for this value is 25, which was the standard pressure for GWR locos). Typically, MSTS takes just over 1 second to release the brakes once the Small Injector is opened. When running in MSTS, the Small Injector is closed to conserve steam; the brakes can be applied normally when it is closed.
>
> For testing this, a suitable freeware loco is available from the UKTS
> file library, as file ID 28517 (RF_BR_78xx_7812); it also requires the
> GWR Sound Set (file ID 6481) which is automatically installed in the
> common.sound folder. This loco was selected because it starts with
> the Small Injector closed and the brakes on.
>
> Although the non-functioning of keys H J and K is covered in bug
> 372867, no detail was provided
>
> Regards,
> Ged
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/or/+bug/1391449/+subscriptions

Dennis A T (dennisat) wrote :

Also, could you do a "negative" check that the Running sector does NOT work as Release when there is a separate Release sector.

Thanks
Dennis

Gerald Saunders (saunderby) wrote :

Hi Dennis,I've only tested half a dozen locos, which don't use the Small Injector, but do have a Release sector and can confirm that "Running" does not release the brakes. I'm sure you're also doing your own tests!!I found it most difficult to find many other locos which use the Small Injector to release the brakes. It seems to be mainly those created by Refman (Reg Furniss) and reskins of them. Those I did find now behave as they should under OR. Just found the Tyseley Panniers (file ID 30443), by Dave Robinson, and they now behave correctly under Open Rails.
Regards,Ged

> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 17:05:54 +0000
> From: <email address hidden>
> To: <email address hidden>
> Subject: [Bug 1391449] Re: Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Also, could you do a "negative" check that the Running sector does NOT
> work as Release when there is a separate Release sector.
>
> Thanks
> Dennis
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1391449
>
> Title:
> Use of Small Injector to release GWR loco brakes
>
> Status in Open Rails:
> New
>
> Bug description:
> Hi,
> In accordance with real-life practice, many MSTS models of steam locos with a Great Western Railway origin require the Small Injector to be open in order to release the brakes. This is not, currently, included within Open Rails with the result that it not possible to satisfactorily drive these locos. I say "satisfactorily" because after a comparatively long time (2 minutes), the brakes do release. This is shown at the top left of the OR screen against the Train brake entry where, when the value of inHg reaches 19, the loco starts to move (the maximum for this value is 25, which was the standard pressure for GWR locos). Typically, MSTS takes just over 1 second to release the brakes once the Small Injector is opened. When running in MSTS, the Small Injector is closed to conserve steam; the brakes can be applied normally when it is closed.
>
> For testing this, a suitable freeware loco is available from the UKTS
> file library, as file ID 28517 (RF_BR_78xx_7812); it also requires the
> GWR Sound Set (file ID 6481) which is automatically installed in the
> common.sound folder. This loco was selected because it starts with
> the Small Injector closed and the brakes on.
>
> Although the non-functioning of keys H J and K is covered in bug
> 372867, no detail was provided
>
> Regards,
> Ged
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/or/+bug/1391449/+subscriptions

Dennis A T (dennisat) wrote :

Thanks for your efforts Ged. My tests also seem to indicate the patch is working as I intended. I will mention this on the forums and see if there is any inclination for it to be incorporated in the official releases.

I may have confused things a bit by raising, as suggested on the forums, a "blueprint" for the implementation of Ejector controls in OR. The blueprint is apparently the official way of getting a new feature considered for inclusion. It might be considered that it would be best to wait for Ejector controls to be implemented via the blueprint process rather than apply my temporary patch.

By the way, sorry for the often long gaps between my replies. The good weather means I have to be outside assisting with "useful" house and garden maintenance, or going somewhere interesting, rather than "playing with trains".

Dennis

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