Comment 235 for bug 1160365

> We seriously try to limit changes to the minimum required. But we need a fair balance between "evolution" and "backward compatibility".
Yes, and that's the problem that on this case the balance between evolution and backward compatibility has been unbalanced

> Today, our competitors are solid and evolving. Just have a look at salesforce (a new version every 6 months), new versions of Ms. Dynamics, and SAP Netweaver... We need to evolve if we want to survive.
My question is if those that you are naming have got one single partner/address/contact table or not. I don't now but I don't think so they are thinking on that because their market is ERP market. Your market, it seems that is going through individual single app market so IMHO it's not ERP market

>> Your company should take a deep breath, rely on the partners network to sell OpenERP Enterprise, take the time to move slowly but confidently and work in collaboration with the community members you want to work with. Going fast will lead you nowhere.
I agree on that. Just think the same.

> People prefer OpenERP v5.0 over v6.0, v6.0 over v6.1, v6.1 over v7.
I know you are not going to believe but people was liking more 6.0 over 6.1 but you improved web interface so partners wanted offering that new feature to their new customers but almost all "old" partners we have got still many implementations on 6.0 don't wanting to migrate to 6.1 only for improving Web interface that most of them are not using. They have got their solution build. They are medium-big companies who can't think about migrating their database structure nor trying non stable version or a solution. Be OpenERP, be another one.
If thinks were done right way and there was backward compatibility, without erasing db fields without any sense or remaking valid structures difficult to explain, almost all of them would be on 6.1 and probably paying OPW.
If they feel that core is going to change each 6 month and they are going to suffer a big migration pain each 6 months... they don't need services you are offering because their instance is stable, is working and your new versions are not offering anything attractive enough for migrate. So Opw for them, even having budget to pay or wanting to pay does not apply.

> Did you know that the companies deploying OpenERP in production nearly doubled in Q1 2013 compared to Q4 2012 ?
How can you know that? This is... you have got data about how many small individuals and small companies are registering on your online saas to test, due to your marketing campaing but... How do you know really how many real medium-big companies started up with OpenERP all around the world, what are they demanding for, what version are they installing now Q22013, after 4 months release? How could you have real data about it?

> It does not look like we start from scratch, it looks like the market demand is accelerating and more customers want OpenERP.

sorry but... Customers always liked OpenERP.

> It's always the same thing at every new versions (v5, v6.0, v6.1, v7):
That's true. Why ?

> - first 4 months: partners complain a lot due to changes (why did you do that?) or fears (this can not work, it was better before)
> - then: they deploy it to customers and start to understanding/liking it
> - then: when a new version is released, they want to stick to the current one.
Not always. Depending on modules/functionality existing on each version, customer will like more or less.

> Everybody complained when we launched v6.1. Today, nobody want to use the v6.0 any more... It will be the same for v7 and it's the same for every big technological change (GTK --> Web client)
You are mistaken here. Most people I know prefer GTK over web client. People is thinking on web client not for using it 8 hous a day like accountants do but for punctual use of system like commercial people do.
There is still a few features that were much better solved on 6.0 than 6.1
There is still less bugs on 6.0 than 6.1
The only improvement we see on 6.1 over 6.0 is web interface and email templates. Not more. But... those 2 things are balancing preferencies to 6.1 because good things are bigger that depreciated things.
With 7.0 is totally different.
We have lost GTK, it's a negative point we could survive without but some of our customers could not afford it.
Database structure has been strongly changed not only technically but you changed conceptual meaning. Your granularity concept is now contact but our customers granularity concept is still Partner, because we are working with ERP 6.X aproach and our customers are Companies that make commercial interchange with companies independently who asks for making transaction.
Our localization modules are not supporting your granularity aproach.
Our modules are not supporting your granularity aproach.
So, in this case is not about I like or I don't like new views or new workflow or new interface, is about don't like your new solution aproach so it's much more heavy that before has been.

> Note that we decided a few things to improve the future:
> 1/ In the future, we will stop doing non-long term support version, to avoid you the v6.1 difficulties (you have one year to migrate). So, v7 is a long term version, v8 and v9 will also be a long term version. There will be no v7.1 or v8.1.
And? What does this mean? Any future OpenERP version will have got a new "improved" model aproach? Each one would be a nighmare not only to migrate but to try to understant what you did with the product? It's not a question it's a scary thing rounding on partners and community mind.

> 2/ As all versions are long term support versions, customers are not forced to migrate to future versions. They choose if they want to evolve or not.
So.. you are just confirming that in every OpenERP version we will have a fork risk because there will be customers don't liking your new aproach?

> 3/ A guarantee that any customer can migrate all it's modules (including it's own/community modules) for a very low cost: 800€/1000 lines of code. We are trying to divide this price by 10 when we will be able to share the costs amongst all the usres. Our goal is to be able to migrate accounting localisation modules for 80 EUR (code+data) That would be the best of the two world: being able to evolve and no migration pain. --> but that's for the long term... it's not feasible yet. But that's the biggest service we can propose to our customers!
Again same discusion from begining. We are technically able to migrate a python module and adapt from one version to another or let you migrate it, it's not the problem. The problem is that if you make conceptual changes on functional side some modules could not be migrated with same sense. You could migrate technically but you can not assure it works functionally.

 I tried to be constructive and let you know that we are seeing that you are goint through nowhere and we don't want it to pass. We would prefere going on with OpenERP, SA as I said always but now gold partners and several other partners are speaking about seriously forking OpenERP. Never before we had more than 230 comments in a bug thread. Never before so many people was asking you to open your mind. For us, has been always very difficult OpenERP, SA to listen but we could understant we were not very profitable for you but now... all your ecosystem is in serious danger IMHO and you should think about it.

My 2 cents.

Thank you very much: