My thoughts on the given comments: #3 (@shigorin) - isn't constructive (I've asked the author to revisit this post, nothing happened), I'll not waste my time by discussing this. #4 (@inte) > I always thought the main goal of implementing a replacement for X11 is to eventually get rid of X. However, with all major distributions switching to Wayland except Ubuntu switching to Mir the only compatibility layer between these two will remain... X-windows, since from what I understood apps compiled against Mir will only run in Mir but not in Wayland and vice versa. > [...] This is a serious point. If we have 2 new Systems there are 4 possibilities: 1. System Weston/Wayland gets support 2. System Mir gets support 3. Both systems get support 4. The minimal criteria/overlapping will get used. Point 3 is unlikely, no capitalistic company wants to support 2 systems in the long run Point 4 leads us to a schizophrenic position: The highest level available to both: Mir and Weston/Wayland is: XOrg. Even more important, if you guys implement a "MirWayland"-Backend, Wayland will be used, it (will be/is) far more advanced than XOrg and I can't see for a WaylandMir-Backend in the long term?! > I don`t see much point in supporting proprietary Android drivers either, since these are often linked against certain, sometimes outdated kernel versions, which will lead to a whole bunch of problems regarding updates and security. > [...] I have a different opinion on this one: Using Android-drivers gives Ubuntu a huge advantage. Ubuntu was the first platform to properly support Nvidia/Amd proprietary drivers ("Blob"). This has lead (or at least supported) to the high count of Ubuntu-Users. Giving the Blob-Vendors a infrastructure their engagement, quality and support have increased a whole amount. I appreciate this step. Linux and (GNU)Linux lack of proper interfaces for binary drivers. Every time a new XOrg version or Kernel came out there was a high risk (in case of XOrg updates it even was assured) that old Binary-Drivers didn't work with the running software. Ubuntu resolves this problem by accepting Android-Drivers. They have (from the Compositer-Viewpoint) a relay good interface. Using the Google-designed interfaces is good because they exist. They have proven to be usable (Android is the main player on smartphones) and many companies have the drivers ready even before UbuntuPhone is there. > Ubuntu should overthink the Mir strategy and at least talk to the Folks from Fedora, SuSE, Tizen and Jolla to somehow agree on EITHER implementing Mir OR Wayland on all distris, but not fragment the Linux world. ... approved without a comment needed ... #5 (@robert-ancell) > This is not the right place to discuss this. Bugs are for problems with > the Mir code, not for the existence or usage of this project. Maybe my headline is misleading (I purposely did this though), But I didn't report a bug against "lp:mir", I reported a bug against "Mir", Registered 2012-06-20 by Thomas Voß Mir is a display server technology. This isn't the code, the whole project has this "Bug", with this discussion succeeding this report will pass through the different stages: - Marking as Confirmed: It is a issue. (regarding many people) - Marking as "Won't fix": The discussion ended with the understanding that Mir is essentially for the future of Ubuntu - Mir will get developed as Canonical planed to (at the time from the start to the publication). - Marking as "In progress": The discussion ended with the understanding that we have to use a single Compositor- We will search for a possible solution in this problem. To bring this back to "lp:mir": This is a bug, (lp:)Mir dosn't implement "Wayland" as the (only) protocol, (lp:)Mir dosn't use (at least) the driver-backend Weston uses. So GPU-Vendors have to make a decision, which Backend to support. #6 (@vanvugt) > [...] > 1. The existence of this project is not a "bug" in the code of branch > lp:mir so should not have been logged on bugs.launchpad.net. See my comment to #5 (@robert-ancell) Btw. If this can be discussed on a place as prominent as bugs.launchpad.net/mir I'm the first one to call "lets switch the channel"... > 2. [...] > 3. [...] Ok, I have used the wrong words on the wrong places (which is misleading, I apologize for this mistake yet and here^^) but my basic concern is understandable (you hadn't responded like this otherwise) > 4. "Mir" is a compositor/display server. It is also a protocol but could > be modified to use the Wayland protocol in theory. It's not impossible > but is a whole separate argument about whether it should. That's > probably the real argument here. You got a hughe point here. Mir as an other implementation of (the reference implementation) Weston would automatically lead to a higher union. But this union can only be permanent if Mir and Weston use the same ("Wayland-Based-Compositor"-Driver-Backend[WBCDB]). This could also include Android-Drivers. But with a high prioritization on the WBCDB > 5. "Canonical" is a commercial enterprise and needs market > differentiation like any enterprise. So arguably, some fragmentation is > a necessity for Canonical. Yes, fully accepted. BUT, use your community, (High-Level) Shell: Unity, Cloud: U1, User friendliness, Stability, Software-actuality, Design, Communication, Support, Central-Bug-Report: Launchpad, Documentation, ... . To separate you from other Linuxes (Including!) Android/ChromeOS/FirefoxOS. Separation on a low level are hindering you from accessing a huge amount of manpower ("for free"), Wayland, Weston [And programs designed to run with them] Will get (or are already) backed by a huge amount of companies/people, they invested huge amounts of time. They made(/have) huge amounts of experience. Don't waste those. If you separate on a higher level (I stated some examples above) you can continue the "Uprising of Ubuntu". Ubuntu is growing up so high because it used things the community made. Back in the beginning of Ubuntu, Canonical was highly criticized because of this behavior but this is exactly how open-source works. You guys did a great job there. But if you take a cut at this (sensitive) point Ubuntu can't access those resources anymore. Btw. I know, this ["Bug-Reports"] isn't the only purpose of launchpad. > 7. All of Mir is open source. Can we celebrate that fact a little? [At first i wanted to write something which could be laid-out as "mean" here so I removed this] *celebrate* > These are my personal opinions and not necessarily the opinions of my > employer :) I highly appreciate it that you commented on this one, at the moment it is hard for me to get what you guys thought/think with respect to Mir. Even if this isn't "Canonical", it is a man who was involved in it's progress so your words are carrying more weight for me. [... My English skills failed on me at the last sentences^^] #8 to #13 (@inte and @vanvugt) I agree, especially with #11 (@inte). PS: I would like this bug to be reset [at least] to "Opinion", see my comments on #5 (@robert-ancell) for the resons. I, however, let you (@Canonical guys) decide what to do about it.