Bug #898201 “Marlin draw icons on desktop” : Bugs : Marlin

xapantu (xapantu) on 2011-11-30

Changed in marlin:
status:	New → Triaged
importance:	Undecided → Medium

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Lee Hyde (anubeon) wrote on 2011-12-09:

#1

What would be nice is if Marlin could draw icons on a per workspace basis. Any desktop files could be stored in '~/Desktop/' (to insure compatibility with other file managers and dual-boot set-ups) with symlinks stored in the appropriate '~/Desktop/.workspace#'. Failing that however, simply drawing desktop icons would be a boon to some (although I've gotten used to my uncluttered desktop to be honest).

I think it's important though to draw the line at drawing the desktop background, that isn't within the remit of a file manager like Marlin in my view (the incompatibility between nautilus and compiz's wallpaper plug-in being a case in point).

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Owais Lone (loneowais) wrote on 2011-12-09:

#2

Hmm, that is indeed an interesting idea

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Cassidy James Blaede (cassidyjames) wrote on 2011-12-10:

#3

If desktop drawing is added, I think it's very important to keep it as an option and off by default. There are lighter weight solutions to drawing a desktop than a file manager, and that's one of the reasons Marlin is able to be as lightweight as it is. I'd hate to see unnecessary weight added to the file manager.

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Lee Hyde (anubeon) wrote on 2011-12-12:

#4

A plug-in perhaps?

@Cassidy James

What other solutions are there for drawing icons (only) on the desktop. I absolutely agree that a file manager shouldn't be handling the drawing for the desktop background/wallpaper, but I am unfamiliar with any lightweight alternatives for those who want icons on their desktop. I'm completely on the fence vis. whether, if such a feature were implemented, it should be set on/off by default. Downstream packagers can always make that decision I suppose.

ammonkey (am-monkeyd) on 2011-12-28

Changed in marlin:
importance:	Medium → Wishlist

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Timo Reimerdes (timorei) wrote on 2012-02-17:

#5

I have by now almost completely switched to marlin as my everyday filemanager.

I have tried hacking nautilus to draw the desktop but open marlin, if a folder is clicked - but all I managed to do is to turn nautilus into a horrible buggy and crashing mess. Also I managed to add a horrible memory leak...

Would it make sense to not-have-marlin-do-it, but to think of a desktop as something else entirely (kindof the plasma-desktop approach)? Maybe something that is a marlin-plugin? Honestly, I can't see how there could be a really clean way to have a filemanager draw icons on a desktop. It's not what filemanagers are supposed to do.

I think the only reason why anyone is even bugging you with this is, because nautilus does the desktop-icons right now (and pcmanfm does so, as well) - when all that is really wanted is a "non window, always in the background, transparent, no window-decoration, fullscreen canvas with icons on it that use default applications/operations when clicked and providing the same rightlick menu as the filemanager plus maybe background settings link".

Ok, some additional features might be interesting: sorting (rtl, ltr,...) grid, spacing, icon-sizes, icon-orientation, show volumes, ...

It really does sound like something very-not-marlin, doesn't it?

Any news on this feature? Have you started on anything? Is there maybe something standalone around already?

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ammonkey (am-monkeyd) wrote on 2012-02-17:

#6

"kindof the plasma-desktop approach"
That's what i got in mind too. I don't know if marlin drawing the destkop really make sense, i like the kde plasma approach, i don't think a desktop is resumed to icons only. But while in the past the desktop was the only overlay, today with gnome-shell or unity with respectively the activities overlay and the lenses, the desktop is less and less interesting. Still thoses new overlays are very limited and we're far from what our old desktop have to offer. So it's a dilema :) (to draw or not to draw the desktop)

From the existing, we already got applications similar to the folder widget plasma like screenlet and recently i discovered another project called DesktopFolders, which is a light weight clone of the screenlet FolderView widget coded in vala.
http://www.terra.es/personal7/inigoserna/DesktopFolders/

Althought i could just embed a marlin icon view in a transparent windows with some tailored arrangement like what u just said ltr rtl etc.

There's some other nice project/idea about a temporary place to organize stuff for the desktop i found interesting like The Board(but i think it's kinda dead), grape for macos is somewhat, a really interesting idea too http://tayasui.com/Grape.html

As u see for the moment i didn't even started anything about the desktop, i am still questioning myself and it's not even sure i'll do something about it. If u have some interesting ideas please step up :)

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Timo Reimerdes (timorei) wrote on 2012-02-17:

#7

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I think there are some pretty strong arguments for having the desktop act just like an almost default file-manager window:

a) Consistency:
- You set your filemanger to "open on single click" - your desktop takes the same setting and behaves just like that
- You have your default applications and actions and scripts for filetypes and folders and you get the same on files that are presented on your desktop
- You get the - mostly - same right-click menu, no matter where you click on "something" (file, folder, link,...)

b) Convenience:
- Drag and Drop: A folder draged to the desktop remains a folder and does not turn into "something else" like a folderview.
- A file on the desktop is simply(!) easier accessible and less obfuscated by structures (simple being good!)

c) Realtion to Real-Life-Desks:
- Put the stuff you are working with "on your desktop" and open what you are working on
- Maybe even the trashcan on the desktop - it's a not-so-far abstraction of the real thing in your office beside your desk

d) It's obvious:
There is a folder. On the desktop.
There is an icon, that looks like the firefox icon. On the desktop.
There is an icon, that looks like a harddrive-icon. On the desktop.
There is a trashcan. Looks like something's in it. On the desktop.
... I doubt that there is any point where any user would wonder "oh, I wonder what and where that could be or do?"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the other hand, I have absolutely no doubt that this really is not a filemanager's job. And if marlin is supposed to keep this professional "do one thing and do it well" focus, then implementing a "desktop-item-system" into the filemanger itself is like adding paint-tools to a documentviewer.

About Grape:
While being a neat idea, it fails in some of the strong arguments: It's not as accessible as a simple-folders/files on the desktop.
It does not "keep things as simple as they could be".

About DesktopFolders:
A nice idea. As a widget. But it is a bit weird to create a view, that would be the easiest and most understanable if used fullscreen, witout decoration and show the contents of a specific folder: i.e. $HOME or $DESKTOP ... it's the same thing, just a bit more spiffy.
There is the benefit of having the ability to display several folders at the same time, while maintaining structure. At the tradeoff of making things more complicated and "cluttering" the desktop pane.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excuse me if I am getting carried away now. I'm just taking a break from work and this is great food for the brain-bug!

I honestly believe that the best and cleanest way to do this, is to create an application for the desktop that collaborates with marlin. Call it "ocean" or whatever.

Now I'm fairly shure I remember marlin's main funktionality not being a libmarlin.so ;) Too bad, because this application could actually use something like that very well - to avoid non-beneficial redundancy and profit from common optimizations and bugfixes.

This application would basically be the icon-view-area of marlin, wi...

I think there are some pretty strong arguments for having the desktop act just like an almost default file-manager window:

a) Consistency:
- You set your filemanger to "open on single click" - your desktop takes the same setting and behaves just like that
- You have your default applications and actions and scripts for filetypes and folders and you get the same on files that are presented on your desktop
- You get the - mostly - same right-click menu, no matter where you click on "something" (file, folder, link,...)

b) Convenience:
- Drag and Drop: A folder draged to the desktop remains a folder and does not turn into "something else" like a folderview.
- A file on the desktop is simply(!) easier accessible and less obfuscated by structures (simple being good!)

c) Realtion to Real-Life-Desks:
- Put the stuff you are working with "on your desktop" and open what you are working on
- Maybe even the trashcan on the desktop - it's a not-so-far abstraction of the real thing in your office beside your desk

d) It's obvious:
There is a folder. On the desktop. 
There is an icon, that looks like the firefox icon. On the desktop.
There is an icon, that looks like a harddrive-icon. On the desktop.
There is a trashcan. Looks like something's in it. On the desktop.
... I doubt that there is any point where any user would wonder "oh, I wonder what and where that could be or do?"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the other hand, I have absolutely no doubt that this really is not a filemanager's job. And if marlin is supposed to keep this  professional "do one thing and do it well" focus, then implementing a "desktop-item-system" into the filemanger itself is like adding paint-tools to a documentviewer.

About Grape:
While being a neat idea, it fails in some of the strong arguments: It's not as accessible as a simple-folders/files on the desktop.
It does not "keep things as simple as they could be".

About DesktopFolders:
A nice idea. As a widget. But it is a bit weird to create a view, that would be the easiest and most understanable if used fullscreen, witout decoration and show the contents of a specific folder: i.e. $HOME or $DESKTOP ... it's the same thing, just a bit more spiffy. 
There is the benefit of having the ability to display several folders at the same time, while maintaining structure. At the tradeoff of making things more complicated and "cluttering" the desktop pane.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excuse me if I am getting carried away now. I'm just taking a break from work and this is great food for the brain-bug!

I honestly believe that the best and cleanest way to do this, is to create an application for the desktop that collaborates with marlin. Call it "ocean" or whatever.

Now I'm fairly shure I remember marlin's main funktionality not being a libmarlin.so ;) Too bad, because this application could actually use something like that very well - to avoid non-beneficial redundancy and profit from common optimizations and bugfixes.

This application would basically be the icon-view-area of marlin, with the special tailored arangement options... scaling options... maybe even "category"-sort-options (like "sort the default icons like in marlin sidebar" or something like that.

Call me a heretic, but I have not even looked at what extended-actions is and what it can do. So I'll just speculate that this could come in handy in some cases as well.

Configuration of the "ocean" (sry, I just like the idea of marlin not being a fish on dry land) could use the same default settings as marlin, but let them be a different config-file/dconf-key-set (I remember the dozens of "how do I make my desktop icons in nautilus bigger without increasing icon-view size?" "You can't"). Sane defaults. Simple.

Brainstorming this:
* Goal
What should it do? (files, folders, previews, drives, trash,... background-image(?))
What should it look like? (folder-scaling, sorting, alignment, grid, folderviews?)
Keep in mind: What should it NOT do? (background image? Animations? Deleting random system files...)

* Common ground
What funktionality is wanted, that marlin already provides? (rightclick, drag and drop, drawing icons in an area, selection, ...)
Can some of this be reused and/or split into a common "file-handling-library"?

* Integration thoughts
How does Nautilus draw the desktop? What would "Ocean" have to do to be an alternative in gnome-shell/unity/custom-session?
Does it need something special like "desktop widgets", "sidebar", "plugs"? (Think of a desktop where no widget will ever cover an icon,... or fan-made-extensions...) - Don't implement, but keep an open mind and the code flexible.
What error's (could) occur if started on a de that is already running nautilus/plasma/pcmanfm/...?
What happens when the compiz-scale-plugin is used, or virtual desktops, or dynamic-workspaces, large-desktop-environments even...?

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So - questions:
A) Desktop-Icons Y/n/q?
[enter] 
1) Standalone, marlin related application? (using some libmarlin?)
2) Marlin-Module? (within the marlin code, so part of the whole thing, but "toggle-able")
3) Plugin? (I doubt this would not combine the problems of 1) and 2)

Changed in marlin:
status:	Triaged → In Progress
assignee:	nobody → ammonkey (am-monkeyd)

Marlin

Marlin draw icons on desktop

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Changed in marlin:
milestone:	none → 0.9