Can't delete a track or a segment of a track while using add track and vias tool

Bug #1490958 reported by Art on 2015-09-01
90
This bug affects 16 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
KiCad
Undecided
Tomasz Wlostowski

Bug Description

This is for OpenGL canvas. If you using the new track tool you can't delete track or vias. So you have to switch back and forth between regular mode and track mode if you need to correct something. This is a major inconvenience. I haven't used much of OpenGL mode for real work, just because it is really awkward. Things like that make it downright unusable. What happened to the backspace and delete button functions when you could delete either the whole track or just a segment? Vias don't show net names now as well, which makes it sometimes confusing trying to figure out which net a via belongs to.

Application: kicad
Version: (2015-09-01 BZR 6142)-product release build
wxWidgets: Version 3.0.0 (debug,wchar_t,compiler with C++ ABI 1002,GCC 4.8.2,wx containers,compatible with 2.8)
Platform: Windows 7 (build 7601, Service Pack 1), 64-bit edition, 64 bit, Little endian, wxMSW
Boost version: 1.54.0
         USE_WX_GRAPHICS_CONTEXT=OFF
         USE_WX_OVERLAY=OFF
         KICAD_SCRIPTING=ON
         KICAD_SCRIPTING_MODULES=ON
         KICAD_SCRIPTING_WXPYTHON=ON
         USE_FP_LIB_TABLE=HARD_CODED_ON
         BUILD_GITHUB_PLUGIN=ON

Art (diametrix) on 2015-09-01
description: updated
Art (diametrix) wrote :

One more thing - CTRL+Z CTRL+Y (Undo and Redo) don't work in the track mode either. You have to get out of track mode to undo something and then go back. That is just silly

Changed in kicad:
status: New → Won't Fix
Art (diametrix) wrote :

Tomasz

Just curious as to why "Won't Fix"

Tomasz Wlostowski (twlostow) wrote :

Art,

There are two reasons:
- a technical one, explained a couple of times on kicad-dev and in this bug tracker. The P&S router uses a different geometry database than the BOARD object, and BOARD currently can't notify any other entities that its data has changed (due to delete/undo/redo/whatever operation). We plan to refactor it after the stable release and possibly add this functionality.
- nobody likes when someone calls his hard work is called silly or "downright unusable". We have no reason to respect your feedback if you don't respect us.

Tom

Art (diametrix) wrote :

Tomasz,

Understood. I guess I delved into OpenGl to early. I can help by testing new software and submitting bugs only if I can simultaneously use it for the circuit development. Currently, if you excuse me and not take everything so personally, it is downright unusable for this purpose.

As to your sentiment about not respecting the feedback because you've got your big boy (hope I'm not being presumptuous here) feelings hurt, that's just immature. You can accept the feedback based on the merit of the information provided.

Maciej Suminski (orsonmmz) wrote :

Art,

Your request is going to be reconsidered during our work on UI improvements [1] draft.

Regards,
Orson

1. http://www.ohwr.org/projects/cern-kicad/wiki/UI_improvements#Layout-editor

Art (diametrix) wrote :

Thanks again Orson! I've read the description of the logic behind behavior of the tool. I don't think it is a good idea to draw analogies and apply tool behaviors across unrelated packages like that. In my opinion, it is more important to be consistent with the default mode (unless it is something really cocky) than say mimic behavior of Corel or Gimp. The goals and methodologies of a CAD program and a graphics package are just too different. It is kind of like in a real life: if you draw something on a real piece of paper with a real pen and you need to erase something you go and get an erase and then erase it. When you solder wires and you need to change something you use the same tool. Kind of lame analogy but it shows the principle.

I think it is more correct to compare board layout to a text editor or an mechanical CAD programm (Solidworks, ProE etc.) , rather than to a graphics design package. Imagine if you had to switch from a "typing tool" to "erasing tool" in MS Word every time you had to type or erase something.

One more thing - even in Corel and Gimp your undo and redo functions work for any tool being used.

Changed in kicad:
status: Won't Fix → In Progress
Joan (joanthesparky) wrote :

For what it's worth, I'm here to support Arts proposal to get the [Backspace] functionality added to the OpenGL track tool.
Reasons:
- keys [DEL] and [X] are to far from each other to get similar behavior without more arm/hand movement (assuming one hand on mouse at all times)
- leaving and re-entering a tool for reverting the last segment being put down is not economical for an efficient and intuitive workflow

Maybe you're even able to come up with some intuitive mouse behavior that doesn't involve keys at all as I find the way one can modify existing tracks in openGL very nice.

Thanks for reading and your efforts.

Changed in kicad:
assignee: nobody → Tomasz Wlostowski (twlostow)
status: In Progress → Fix Committed
Novak Tamas (novak-7) wrote :

@Orson, thank you, it has been *very important*
..but I am insatiable:))

It would be more uniform to achieve the same behaviour in Add tracks mode as in Selection mode:

The I and U selection hotkeys should work, so <Del> button deletes
- actual routed track if <Del> pushed while placing track
- single segment if only mouse hover over
- multiple segments if previously selected by
     - U (subnet)
     - I (whole net)

I see that multiple selection with Shift-clicks can't work while in Add tracks mode.
If user wants more sophisticated selection, he/she needs to leave Add track mode and go to Selection mode.

Do you want me to file a new wish on this, or continue in this thread?

Novak Tamas (novak-7) wrote :

..addition to #8:

<backspace> could be used for reverting the last segment being put down, like Joan mentioned in #7

For reference, I think the "Committed fix" is https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=0700178d077e07601b1b303239b46b4fdf96dae5

AFAIU this just enables the original behaviour for delete and backspace in router mode, though I'm not sure what behaviour that is exactly.

Changed in kicad:
status: Fix Committed → Fix Released
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